Wendelstein 7-X fusion reactor switched on succesfully - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3356624/Stellarator-SUCCESS-Strange-twisted-design-finally-make-fusion-power-reality-switched-time.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3356624/Stellarator-SUCCESS-Strange-twisted-design-finally-make-fusion-power-reality-switched-time.html[/URL] [QUOTE][B]-Wendelstein 7-X is an alternative to the donut-shaped Tokamak reactor -It successfully produced a helium plasma at a lab in Germany yesterday -It reached a temperature of 1 million°C and lasted for a tenth of a second -Technology could lead to limitless supplies of clean and cheap energy[/B] Scientists have successfully switched on the world's largest 'Stellarator' fusion reactor. Dubbed Wendelstein 7-X (W7-X), the reactor is designed to contain super-hot plasma for more than 30 minutes at a time. This week, the reactor produced a special super-hot gas for a tenth of a second. Scientists hope that, if it can work for longer, it could eventually lead to limitless supplies of clean and cheap energy.[/QUOTE] The future is here.

[quote]tenth of a second[/quote] That's a huge amount of time for a fusion reaction, compared to any other tests I've heard about.

[QUOTE=Chamango;49299439]That's a huge amount of time for a fusion reaction, compared to any other tests I've heard about.[/QUOTE] Which is why this is such a big deal.

Holy shit. Also, [sp]can't wait to pre-order my Iron Man mk.2 suit, comes with free jet boots DLC.[/sp]

Don't really trust science news from daily mail style sites - they usually have no clue - I'll suss this out when I get home.

Things like ion thrusters and fusion reactors look like stuff out of a video game, its awesome.

Soon?

Their Twitter seems to confirm this interpretation, I just thought it was sensationalised science from a tabloid. Truly awesome results!

Too bad it'll still be a while until we actually have fusion plants powering shit, but it wouldn't be too surprising if it happens in our lifetime.

[QUOTE=Anderan;49299765]Too bad it'll still be a while until we actually have fusion plants powering shit, but it wouldn't be too surprising if it happens in our lifetime.[/QUOTE] Considering that construction on DEMO is slated for 2050 and medical technology is greatly extending human lifespans, we're definitely going to see it in our lifetime. Sadly this reactor is just too damn complicated and expensive for a power plant, as are tokamaks like ITER, although not nearly as much.

I have a question. why doesn't someone build a reactor that bypass's the sustain fusion and instead just turns off and on for a limited amount of time. Also. Didn't someone have 13 seconds in 2008?

[QUOTE=Passing;49299875]I have a question. why doesn't someone build a reactor that bypass's the sustain fusion and instead just turns off and on for a limited amount of time. Also. Didn't someone have 13 seconds in 2008?[/QUOTE] Because you're putting more power in than you're getting out in that case. Start up is (supposed to be) the most energy intensive part of the process (From my understanding), and the sustained part is where you're supposed to achieve a net gain of energy from the reaction. I will probably be shot down by the actual physicists on FP here tho, I'm just a biologist.

[QUOTE=Chamango;49299439]That's a huge amount of time for a fusion reaction, compared to any other tests I've heard about.[/QUOTE] It's not a fusion reaction, but it's still fairly long for plasma containment iirc. [editline]12th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=zombini;49299803]Considering that construction on DEMO is slated for 2050 and medical technology is greatly extending human lifespans, we're definitely going to see it in our lifetime. Sadly this reactor is just too damn complicated and expensive for a power plant, as are tokamaks like ITER, although not nearly as much.[/QUOTE] A lot of the things we nowadays use daily would have been [I]incredibly[/I] expensive ten years ago. I'm sure there's a huge margin for improvement in the manufacturing process for these, if they're turned into serially manufactured items.

[QUOTE=mecaguy03;49299674]Things like ion thrusters and fusion reactors look like stuff out of a video game, its awesome.[/QUOTE] Stellarators have been around since the 50s. It's just that Tokamaks have been more popular ever since the 70s or so. If I remember right, stella's are more stable but it's harder to get any decent experimental data from them. Hell, we're kinda capable of cold fusion as well. The problem is that the catalyst itself is incredibly expensive and has a finite amount of uses. Which is also why you see so much research in hot fusion.

I just came

[QUOTE=wraithcat;49300812]Stellarators have been around since the 50s. It's just that Tokamaks have been more popular ever since the 70s or so. If I remember right, stella's are more stable but it's harder to get any decent experimental data from them. Hell, we're kinda capable of cold fusion as well. The problem is that the catalyst itself is incredibly expensive and has a finite amount of uses. Which is also why you see so much research in hot fusion.[/QUOTE] Wasnt cold fusion regarded as junk science?

[QUOTE=da space core;49300943]Wasnt cold fusion regarded as junk science?[/QUOTE] There's some muon catalysed aproach. Which can apparently work in close to room temperature. Problem is it needs muons.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;49300812]Stellarators have been around since the 50s. It's just that Tokamaks have been more popular ever since the 70s or so. If I remember right, stella's are more stable but it's harder to get any decent experimental data from them. Hell, we're kinda capable of cold fusion as well. The problem is that the catalyst itself is incredibly expensive and has a finite amount of uses. Which is also why you see so much research in hot fusion.[/QUOTE] Stellerators are, or were nearly impossible to build, the issue is the magnets have to follow this natural wave motion that the plasma wants to take, where as a tokomac forces the plasma to not do that, the stellerator thusly needs less powerful magnets but requires an insane amount of computations and precision fabrication, every single slice of the magnet is a unique shape that contours to the plasma channel. The fact that it works is an amazing step forward because these are supposedly easier to manufacture in some ways because the magnets don't have to be as powerful and the casing doesn't have to be as tough, but the precision and modeling for these has to be spot on

This is fucking amazing. Hopefully the IAEC can help expand upon research and proliferation of these types of generators to countries in the near future. We need new types of energy production bad.

A new level of kraut space magic.

[QUOTE=zombini;49299803]Considering that construction on DEMO is slated for 2050 and medical technology is greatly extending human lifespans, we're definitely going to see it in our lifetime. Sadly this reactor is just too damn complicated and expensive for a power plant, as are tokamaks like ITER, although not nearly as much.[/QUOTE] This is a proof of concept not meant for actual power production

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dwoRDQc.jpg[/IMG] That's insane. It would be difficult to manufacture those superconducting magnets.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;49305674]This is a proof of concept not meant for actual power production[/QUOTE] I know, I was pointing out that even if it worked 100% as planned and was a fully sustainable reactor that produces far more energy than it uses, implementing them in a power plant fashion in large enough numbers to power countries would be extremely impractical.

[QUOTE=Sableye;49302013]Stellerators are, or were nearly impossible to build, the issue is the magnets have to follow this natural wave motion that the plasma wants to take[/QUOTE] Wouldn't it be better to build everything dynamically? so if the plasma moves out the magnets containing that area would move it bit like a boat on a wave. Because it sounds like your describing something that is static.

[QUOTE=Bradyns;49299554]Don't really trust science news from daily mail style sites - they usually have no clue - I'll suss this out when I get home.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On 10th December 2015 the first helium plasma was produced in the Wendelstein 7-X fusion device at the Max Planck Institute for Plasma Physics (IPP) in Greifswald. After more than a year of technical preparations and tests, experimental operation has now commenced according to plan. Wendelstein 7-X, the world’s largest stellarator-type fusion device, will investigate the suitability of this type of device for a power station.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.ipp.mpg.de/3984226/12_15"]http://www.ipp.mpg.de/3984226/12_15[/URL] Direct from the Max Planck Institut itself. Some believe that the stellarator could be an alternative to a tokamak in regards to the currently under construction ITER Project.

[QUOTE=zombini;49306264]I know, I was pointing out that even if it worked 100% as planned and was a fully sustainable reactor that produces far more energy than it uses, implementing them in a power plant fashion in large enough numbers to power countries would be extremely impractical.[/QUOTE] Would it, though? Once we understand how to effectively produce these things, the amount of energy that may be harnessed is absolutely enormous I'm not sure about the elements required to produce the reaction, however.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;49307417][...] I'm not sure about the elements required to produce the reaction, however.[/QUOTE] (Mostly) hydrogen, so a power plant could literally run on water.

what pollution would this release (if any)? would it literally just release helium after its done?

[QUOTE=Toro;49307846]what pollution would this release (if any)? would it literally just release helium after its done?[/QUOTE] Compared to everything else, this is the cleanest you will ever get for an energy source.

[QUOTE=Toro;49307846]what pollution would this release (if any)? would it literally just release helium after its done?[/QUOTE] it could be dirtier than a 1890s coal plant and still be better than anything today on a pollution:power ratio due to how much power production it potentially has