Mayor: Wrong to say Albuquerque shooting justified
24 replies, posted
[url]http://www.timesunion.com/news/crime/article/Mayor-Wrong-to-say-Albuquerque-shooting-justified-5345380.php[/url]
[quote]ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — In a rare show of displeasure with the troubled Police Department, Albuquerque Mayor Richard Berry said Monday it was wrong for the new police chief to say officers were justified in killing a homeless camper in the Sandia foothills.
Berry also said he wants to bring in outsiders to help investigate the killing that came as the department is under federal scrutiny after notching three dozen shootings since 2010.
Berry criticized Police Chief Gorden Eden for making a premature judgment about the fatal shooting of 38-year-old James Boyd on March 16.
"The chief got asked an honest question and he gave an honest answer," Berry said. "Unfortunately, it was premature and a mistake, and that will not happen again."[/quote]
[editline]25th March 2014[/editline]
[img]http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/27/06/05/6054244/5/628x471.jpg[/img]
they shot down a guy just because he had a knife. If you look at the helmet footage, you can see that he was no threat to them. Even if was a real threat, they easily could immobilize him with non lethal weapons. Even lets say for some reason that we cant see on the video, it was best course action to shoot him with lethal weapon, but again, shooting another live round on his incapacitated body is just plain barbaric.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzpZbkgjJ8"]Link to the video. It contains [B]graphic footage[/B].[/URL]
[QUOTE=Kastro;44345608]they shot down a guy just because he had a knife. If you look at the helmet footage, you can see that he was no threat to them. Even if was a real threat, they easily could immobilize him with non lethal weapons. Even lets say for some reason that we cant see on the video, it was best course action to shoot him with lethal weapon, [b]but again, shooting another live round on his incapacitated body is just plain barbaric.[/b]
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzpZbkgjJ8"]Link to the video. It contains [B]graphic footage[/B].[/URL][/QUOTE]
As was pointed out, multiple times, the last time this was posted. The reason officers continued firing after he fell was because they thought he was exaggerating his injury to trick them, and was deliberately refusing to drop the knife (I should also point out that after he goes down they use less-lethal "beanbag" rounds).
[QUOTE=Kastro;44345608]they shot down a guy just because he had a knife. If you look at the helmet footage, you can see that he was no threat to them. Even if was a real threat, they easily could immobilize him with non lethal weapons. Even lets say for some reason that we cant see on the video, it was best course action to shoot him with lethal weapon, but again, shooting another live round on his incapacitated body is just plain barbaric.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzpZbkgjJ8"]Link to the video. It contains [B]graphic footage[/B].[/URL][/QUOTE]
oh my god those comments
[quote]Chuck Landreth56 minutes ago
They would have rolled out the red carpet then!•
[quote]Greg Howard7 hours ago
he should have told them he's an illegal alien, then they'd have welcomed him.•[/quote][/quote]
[editline]25th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;44345680]As was pointed out, multiple times, the last time this was posted. The reason officers continued firing after he fell was because they thought he was exaggerating his injury to trick them, and was deliberately refusing to drop the knife (I should also point out that after he goes down they use less-lethal "beanbag" rounds).[/QUOTE]
It was posted that the police chief justified it, this is the mayor saying "no it isn't"
also, do you even believe that, as you've written it?
[QUOTE=Kastro;44345608]they shot down a guy just because he had a knife. If you look at the helmet footage, you can see that he was no threat to them. Even if was a real threat, they easily could immobilize him with non lethal weapons. Even lets say for some reason that we cant see on the video, it was best course action to shoot him with lethal weapon, but again, shooting another live round on his incapacitated body is just plain barbaric.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzpZbkgjJ8"]Link to the video. It contains [B]graphic footage[/B].[/URL][/QUOTE]
Why post an edited down version?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC9lHoZwfjM[/media]
They don't shoot another live round into his body after he's down. They use beanbag rounds to assure that he is fully incapacitated.
Like someone else said, he had the intent, means, and opportunity. Doesn't matter if he didn't look like a threat to us, lethal force was justified the second he drew his knives.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;44345726]Why post an edited down version?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC9lHoZwfjM[/media]
They don't shoot another live round into his body after he's down. They use beanbag rounds to assure that he is fully incapacitated.
Like someone else said, he had the intent, means, and opportunity. Doesn't matter if he didn't look like a threat to us, lethal force was justified the second he drew his knives.[/QUOTE]
I don't know where everyone got this idea that if this person poses any threat at all, even just a little cut, he should just be killed from a distance and dealt with as a body. What happened to trying to talk him down? What happened to tasers and using the bean bags BEFORE you shoot him with a military rifle?
People end up in shitty situations all the time, I'd rather not be killed because some asshole cop is too lazy to find out all the facts and just say "he was in possession of a knife in the presence of 4 well armed soldier-style cops, so we killed him"
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44345681]It was posted that the police chief justified it, this is the mayor saying "no it isn't"
also, do you even believe that, as you've written it?[/QUOTE]
I know, I didn't mean to imply that this was a repost, I just was reminding him that Facepunch already put this event under a microscope and that was what came up when they did.
And yes, yes I do, it's happened before and officers had reason to believe the man would be violent. So yeah, it's believable that they would expect him to keep fighting while he still had his weapon. Also I don't see what ulterior motive they could have for that particular aspect of this incident.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44345738]I don't know where everyone got this idea that if this person poses any threat at all, even just a little cut, he should just be killed from a distance and dealt with as a body. What happened to trying to talk him down? What happened to tasers and using the bean bags BEFORE you shoot him with a military rifle?
People end up in shitty situations all the time, I'd rather not be killed because some asshole cop is too lazy to find out all the facts and just say "he was in possession of a knife in the presence of 4 well armed soldier-style cops, so we killed him"[/QUOTE]
He pulled a knife on a K9 officer. That's as serious as threatening a human cop. Sorry, justified.
Also attacking someone with a knife isn't going to leave a 'little cut'. You can fucking kill someone with a pen knife. Don't whip out a knife on a police officer unless you want to catch a bullet.
The flaw I see with K9 officers being treated as human cops is that humans are more scared and feel more justified in killing a dog. Humans can't predict dogs; they don't know if simply dropping their weapons will make this massive animal stop, so they kill them.
Not saying that the homeless man was in the right here, I just don't like this.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44345738]I don't know where everyone got this idea that if this person poses any threat at all, even just a little cut, he should just be killed from a distance and dealt with as a body. What happened to trying to talk him down? What happened to tasers and using the bean bags BEFORE you shoot him with a military rifle?
People end up in shitty situations all the time, I'd rather not be killed because some asshole cop is too lazy to find out all the facts and just say "he was in possession of a knife in the presence of 4 well armed soldier-style cops, so we killed him"[/QUOTE]
If you're in a person with a huge ass rap sheet that goes back 20 years with a ton of violent crimes on it, chances are you're not just a "person in a shitty situation" you're just a legitimately bad/dangerous guy.
Here's another video from the same place, and pretty similar situation. The officer with the shotgun used less-lethal bags, and they didn't stop the man charging him, forcing them to shoot. Which is why non-lethal can't be relied on in situations like that.
[url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=686_1395200834[/url]
Not saying it was justified or not, but less lethal isn't always a good option. Apologies for the liveleak link
I don't know man I'm willing to accept that I wasn't there and that my judgement has been mostly emotionally based, but I just don't see a man who was trying to be a threat in that video.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;44346080]He pulled a knife on a K9 officer. That's as serious as threatening a human cop.[/QUOTE]
sure he did, but maybe the dog shouldn't have been released in the first place
i mean really, it's almost kind of instinctive to want to fight back when you have a large dog charging at you about to bite you (you can surrender to a person but if you try and surrender to the dog, the dog will probably still get to bite you anyway)
not arguing that the guy should have been waving knives around at police in the first place, but it just doesn't seem like the police did everything they could to de-escalate the whole situation so that nobody had to get shot
If you justify this guy being shot, then you should be shot. Seriously, the guy said he was going to walk away and the police said ALRIGHT. Flashbang the shit out of him, then sick a dog while he can't see.
Pause right there, what the fuck would you do in that situation?
You got lippy with some cops because you didn't expect them to murder you. You try to diffuse the situation and tell them you are going to walk away, WHICH THEY AGREE TO. Then out of no where you are blinded, and the next thing you see is a dog coming up on you with a couple officers behind.
Out of instinct, if there is a dog running towards me with the intent to bite the shit out of me, and I have a knife, I'm going to pull that sucker out. Maybe you won't agree with me, but with your adrenaline going and fear for your life it isn't an uncommon thing to do.
The guy didn't provoke them to shoot after he pulled the knife out. If they were going to shoot, they should have shot right when he had the knife in the air when the dog was still going towards him. But he instantly went from an aggressive pose, when the dog was coming, to a defensive stance when the dog turned around. THEN they shot him, when he had his hands below his waist and threw his hands back out of fear.
I'm not basing this off how I feel about cops, I'm basing it off of what I saw. There were much better things they could have done. Such as if they were going to flashbang the shit out of him, they could have hit him with a bean bag to stun him a bit as well. Or when he had the knife in the air, they could have bean bagged the shit out of him.
Those cops are some bitches. If they are so quick to shoot they should join the military.
As far as I'm concerned, if the suspect doesn't have a gun then there is no reason for the cops to even have lethal weapons in hand. They didn't need SWAT and dogs and flashbangs and bullets to deal with this, they needed a mental health professional. But, I guess police training teaches you to execute anyone who doesn't immediately follow your every command.
[quote]Berry also said he wants to bring in outsiders to help investigate the killing that came as the department is under federal scrutiny after notching three dozen shootings since 2010.[/quote]
I seriously hope something comes of this.
[QUOTE=find me;44346456]If you justify this guy being shot, then you should be shot. Seriously, the guy said he was going to walk away and the police said ALRIGHT. Flashbang the shit out of him, then sick a dog while he can't see.
Pause right there, what the fuck would you do in that situation?
You got lippy with some cops because you didn't expect them to murder you. You try to diffuse the situation and tell them you are going to walk away, WHICH THEY AGREE TO. Then out of no where you are blinded, and the next thing you see is a dog coming up on you with a couple officers behind.
[B]Out of instinct, if there is a dog running towards me with the intent to bite the shit out of me, and I have a knife, I'm going to pull that sucker out.[/B] Maybe you won't agree with me, but with your adrenaline going and fear for your life it isn't an uncommon thing to do.
The guy didn't provoke them to shoot after he pulled the knife out. If they were going to shoot, they should have shot right when he had the knife in the air when the dog was still going towards him. But he instantly went from an aggressive pose, when the dog was coming, to a defensive stance when the dog turned around. THEN they shot him, when he had his hands below his waist and threw his hands back out of fear.
I'm not basing this off how I feel about cops, I'm basing it off of what I saw. There were much better things they could have done. Such as if they were going to flashbang the shit out of him, they could have hit him with a bean bag to stun him a bit as well. Or when he had the knife in the air, they could have bean bagged the shit out of him.
Those cops are some bitches. If they are so quick to shoot they should join the military.[/QUOTE]
And in the same vein I am going to shoot you for pulling that knife on a K9
Killing him wasn't the best solution but the dude was obviously off his rocker and in that instance they had to choose between the crazy hobo threatening to kill them or the K9. He obviously was not going to go quietly and stop being a nuisance, either, since he has a record spanning 20 years.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44345738]I don't know where everyone got this idea that if this person poses any threat at all, [B]even just a little cut[/B], he should just be killed from a distance and dealt with as a body.[/QUOTE]
*GORE WARNING*
[url]http://www.fraternalorderoflawenforcement.com/officer_assault.html[/url]
Please don't img tag that.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44346867]Please don't img tag that.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, done
Usually the police videos I watch are justified, but I disagree with this one.
They were there for 3 hours with the guy. The shooting could have been avoided by proper planning given how much time they've been involved in the situation.
The guy had knives and was at a distance. More non lethal force could have ended the situation if properly executed. He was at a distance with knives and got shot in the back as he was walking away and the officer said "Booyah" afterwards.
Just an overall lack of planning and poor use of actions given how much time they had to figure out how to end the problem.
[QUOTE]And in the same vein I am going to shoot you for pulling that knife on a K9
[/QUOTE]
Can you stop equating the life of a dog with that of a human being? It's just laughable.
[QUOTE=anis;44347679]Can you stop equating the life of a dog with that of a human being? It's just laughable.[/QUOTE]
Except that's how it is officially, police dog is considered equal to police officer. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the police, not a bunch of people on the internet trying to explain this to you.
[QUOTE=anis;44347679]Can you stop equating the life of a dog with that of a human being? It's just laughable.[/QUOTE]
And that dog is considered an official officer. Same exact thing with war dogs. He has 20 years of violent history, what makes you think he suddenly had a change of heart and was just going to give up.
[QUOTE=anis;44347679]Can you stop equating the life of a dog with that of a human being? It's just laughable.[/QUOTE]
Legally the dog is equal to a police officer. If I'm the dog's partner (i.e., a K9 unit) and you pull a knife on my partner while I have a gun on you then you are getting shot.
I guarantee you the relationship between the officers and the dog was valued more than the relationship between the officers and the crazy hobo threatening to kill the officers with knives.
Who gives a shit [b]about what the law fucking considers the dog to be?![/b]
Do we all say "Marijuana is a terrible substance because [b]the law dictates that?![/b]"
Jesus CHRIST
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