Ukraine suspends preparations for EU trade agreement, Russian officials welcome the move
32 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Ukraine has suspended preparations for a trade deal with the EU.
[B]A government statement said the decision had been taken to protect Ukraine's "national security".[/B]
Hours earlier MPs rejected a bill that would have allowed jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko to leave the country - which the EU had demanded as a condition for the deal to proceed.
Ukraine had come under intense pressure from Russia not to sign the historic EU deal at a summit next week.
The Ukrainian government said on Thursday that it was instead looking into setting up a joint commission to promote ties between Ukraine, Russia and the European Union.
[B]Russian officials said they welcomed any Ukrainian moves to foster closer relations.[/B]
Russia wants Ukraine to join its own customs union with Kazakhstan and Belarus, which it sees as a prototype rival to the European Union.
The EU's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton called the decision a "disappointment".
Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt went further, [B]saying Ukraine had "bowed deeply" to the Kremlin[/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25032275[/url]
God damn it Ukraine, when you gonna fall off of Moscow's tit?
[quote]Hours earlier MPs rejected a bill that would have allowed jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko to leave the country - which the EU had demanded as a condition for the deal to proceed.[/quote]
Wow really?
They really hate her don't they?
[QUOTE=laserguided;42941030][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25032275[/url][/QUOTE]
I like how people who are anti-EU are giving this a winner rating, because letting Russia essentially run your politics and imprisoning opposition politicians is soooo much better, go freedom and all that.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;42941641]I like how people who are anti-EU are giving this a winner rating, because letting Russia essentially run your politics and imprisoning opposition politicians is soooo much better, go freedom and all that.[/QUOTE]
In a way, I think that if Ukraine were to cut the ropes with the russian bear we'd have 2008 all over again. Remember what happened in georgia when they had an anti Rusia, pro EU and nato leadership? Yeah, the russians were strolling in their capital...
Anyways In light of the recent news about ukrain beying all :"rusia is my husbanduu" , I think EU should allow ukraine into a scheme simmilar to those of iceland, norway and switzerland. Not technically in the eu but practically, for most of the people it will feel like they are part of it.Benefits like freedom of movement, work, live,education in all EU-states would mean alot for the highly skilled people in UKR atm.
Any news about Moldova?
[QUOTE=godfatherk;42942191]In a way, I think that if Ukraine were to cut the ropes with the russian bear we'd have 2008 all over again. Remember what happened in georgia when they had an anti Rusia, pro EU and nato leadership? Yeah, the russians were strolling in their capital...
Anyways In light of the recent news about ukrain beying all :"rusia is my husbanduu" , I think EU should allow ukraine into a scheme simmilar to those of iceland, norway and switzerland. Not technically in the eu but practically, for most of the people it will feel like they are part of it.Benefits like freedom of movement, work, live,education in all EU-states would mean alot for the highly skilled people in UKR atm.
Any news about Moldova?[/QUOTE]
The conflict in Georgia was much different, primarily caused by Georgia invading South Ossetia. Ukraine would have to fuck up bad to get something even remotely similar with Russia. Unless Ukraine wants to remain the puppet of an oppressive and abusive country forever, it should try its hardest to integrate with the EU.
The shitheads running the country need to realize that not only do most Ukrainians favor the EU, but it would mean embracing freedom and prosperity in the years to come. But they don't want to suffer the temporary economic repercussions and break down on corruption that it comes with.
[QUOTE=poiuytrewq;42943196]The conflict in Georgia was much different, primarily caused by Georgia invading South Ossetia. Ukraine would have to fuck up bad to get something even remotely similar with Russia. Unless Ukraine wants to remain the puppet of an oppressive and abusive country forever, it should try its hardest to integrate with the EU.
The shitheads running the country need to realize that not only do most Ukrainians favor the EU, but it would mean embracing freedom and prosperity in the years to come. But they don't want to suffer the temporary economic repercussions and break down on corruption that it comes with.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, Ukrainian politicians are worse than Russian politicians. Their country and economy are in ruin.
[QUOTE=laserguided;42945337]The thing is, Ukrainian politicians are worse than Russian politicians. Their country and economy are in ruin.[/QUOTE]
Ukraine would do infinitely better on its own than under Russia. Historically, Russia has committed genocide in the Ukraine and tried to crush any signs of dissent there.
[QUOTE=poiuytrewq;42943196]The conflict in Georgia was much different, primarily caused by Georgia invading South Ossetia. Ukraine would have to fuck up bad to get something even remotely similar with Russia. Unless Ukraine wants to remain the puppet of an oppressive and abusive country forever, it should try its hardest to integrate with the EU.
The shitheads running the country need to realize that not only do most Ukrainians favor the EU, but it would mean embracing freedom and prosperity in the years to come. But they don't want to suffer the temporary economic repercussions and break down on corruption that it comes with.[/QUOTE]
South Ossetia doesn't exist though and is internationally considered to be occupied territory by Russia.
It literally didn't exist until the 2008 war.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945379]Ukraine would do infinitely better on its own than under Russia. Historically, Russia has committed genocide in the Ukraine and tried to crush any signs of dissent there.[/QUOTE]
Historically, England is a country which has committed genocide across the world and tried to crush many dissidents and rebellions. We don't live replay history, except for maybe that retard with the fedora.
[editline]22nd November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;42945398]South Ossetia doesn't exist though and is internationally considered to be occupied territory by Russia.
It literally didn't exist until the 2008 war.[/QUOTE]
It existed, but was officially part of Georgia. Where do you think the separatist rebels came from.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetian_Autonomous_Oblast[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia#1989.E2.80.932008[/url]
They're different peoples.
[QUOTE]The 1991–1992 South Ossetian War was fought as part of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict between Georgian government forces and ethnic Georgian militia on one side and the forces of South Ossetia and ethnic Ossetian militia who wanted South Ossetia to secede from Georgia and become an independent state, supported by individual Russian troops[citation needed], on the other. The war ended with a Russian-brokered ceasefire, signed on 24 June 1992, which established a joint peacekeeping force and left South Ossetia divided between the rivaling authorities.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, then in 8/8/2008 Georgia invaded South Ossetia and murdered Russian peacekeepers. So Russia retook South Ossetia and neutralized Georgia's armed forces.
[QUOTE=laserguided;42945409]Historically, England is a country which has committed genocide across the world and tried to crush many dissidents and rebellions. We don't live replay history, except for maybe that retard with the fedora.[/QUOTE]
I don't get this. What do you mean?
[editline]22nd November 2013[/editline]
Also it's still awful how the Russians are shitting on the Chechens as well.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945453]I don't get this. What do you mean?
[editline]22nd November 2013[/editline]
Also it's still awful how the Russians are shitting on the Chechens as well.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they're shitting on them with money, those bastards!
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945379]Ukraine would do infinitely better on its own than under Russia. Historically, Russia has committed genocide in the Ukraine and tried to crush any signs of dissent there.[/QUOTE]
Historically, Germany has committed genocide in the Ukraine and tried to crush any signs of dissent there.
Its a pretty poor arguement considering times and places change. Russia is bad but I don't think they're genocidal bad yet.
[QUOTE=laserguided;42945469]Yeah they're shitting on them with money, those bastards![/QUOTE]
They invaded a foreign country twice.
Not to mention Stalin deported loads of Chechens to central Asia in an attempt to get rid of them.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945496]They invaded a foreign country twice.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the Caucasus Emirate deserves to exist.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;42945473]Historically, Germany has committed genocide in the Ukraine and tried to crush any signs of dissent there.
Its a pretty poor arguement considering times and places change. Russia is bad but I don't think they're genocidal bad yet.[/QUOTE]
Russia has been treating the Ukraine terribly for centuries. It shouldn't be allowed to force the Ukrainians from joining the EU.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945496]They invaded a foreign country twice.
Not to mention Stalin deported loads of Chechens to central Asia in an attempt to get rid of them.[/QUOTE]
I dunno man Stalin's era was a long time ago.
[QUOTE=laserguided;42945501]I don't think the Caucasus Emirate deserves to exist.[/QUOTE]
Their claim to independence is as valid as any other country the USSR used to control.
Should Poland deserve to exist? Finland? Latvia? Kazakhstan? Armenia? Ukraine?
[editline]22nd November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=laserguided;42945515]I dunno man Stalin's era was a long time ago.[/QUOTE]
And then they invaded it twice in the 1990s.
If more people knew about the crimes committed by the USSR on the Chechens (after Stalin as well), then they would have opposed the invasion more.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945517]Their claim to independence is as valid as any other country the USSR used to control.
Should Poland deserve to exist? Finland? Latvia? Kazakhstan? Armenia? Ukraine?
[editline]22nd November 2013[/editline]
And then they invaded it twice in the 1990s.
If more people knew about the crimes committed by the USSR on the Chechens (after Stalin as well), then they would have opposed the invasion more.[/QUOTE]
Islam has no place in law they should not exist imho.
[QUOTE=laserguided;42945531]Islam has no place in law they should not exist imho.[/QUOTE]
In the Chechen lands only Russian was taught as the sole language, the bureaucracy was almost entirely composed of Russians, the native population was heavily repressed and discriminated against.
Plus there's the fact that Dzhokhar Dudayev won in an election and then declared independence from the USSR in 1991.
Also how does "Islam has no place in law" justify both invasions?
I guess shelling civilian population centers is justified. Plus taking hostages and using people as human shields and how people like this shithead: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Glebov[/url] have never been punished.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a civil war(violent or non-violent idk) of sorts happens in Ukraine.
Western Ukrainians are really pro-EU and most likely won't let some shitty president and his party stop their chances of getting in.
Why you gotta follow up a reasonable arguement like this:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945517]
And then they invaded it twice in the 1990s.[/QUOTE]
With a totally nonsensical arguement like this:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42945517]
If more people knew about the crimes committed by the USSR on the Chechens (after Stalin as well), then they would have opposed the invasion more.[/QUOTE]
People will just discard your valid argument like I'm going to.
The USSR doesn't exist any more. The land which it composed of has been split into several states. Most (all?) of these states have different policies and new leadership. Its wrong to use it as some kind of proof.
Comparison: The nazis controlled europe. The nazis commited atrocities against poland .'. poland shouldn't want to be part of the eu.
See that and your first arguement is totally discarded.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;42946027]People will just discard your valid argument like I'm going to.[/quote]
Why? Can't you address the valid argument?
[quote]The USSR doesn't exist any more. The land which it composed of has been split into several states. Most (all?) of these states have different policies and new leadership. Its wrong to use it as some kind of proof.[/quote]
Russia inherited the USSR, and the responsibilities that entails. The USSR suddenly didn't vanish into a vacuum. Russia still needs to acknowledge they were once the USSR, and the fact they have to take responsibility for a lot of the problems the USSR created.
Invading the Chechens and bullying the Ukrainians isn't the sign of a modern civilized country. Russia is still as backwards as ever.
[quote]Comparison: The nazis controlled europe. The nazis commited atrocities against poland .'. poland shouldn't want to be part of the eu.[/QUOTE]
The different is that the Germans were punished for their crimes. The Russians never really have been. Most criminals of the USSR got off scot free, including their president.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42946064]Why? Can't you address the valid argument?[/quote] I can try but I don't know enough about the subject.
[quote]
Russia inherited the USSR, and the responsibilities that entails. The USSR suddenly didn't vanish into a vacuum. Russia still needs to acknowledge they were once the USSR, and the fact they have to take responsibility for a lot of the problems the USSR created.[/quote] This is poor. Ukraine was also poart of the ussr, so was east germany. Do they also take some blame or do you give it to russia because you dislike it?
[quote]
Invading the Chechens and bullying the Ukrainians isn't the sign of a modern civilized country. Russia is still as backwards as ever.[/quote]
I wouldn't say backwards as ever. They have some majorly whack policies but its a big improvement from where they were. As for Chechnya I cannot condone that action it was rather brutal.
[quote]
The different is that the Germans were punished for their crimes. The Russians never really have been. Most criminals of the USSR got off scot free, including their president.[/QUOTE]
So would the old regime being punished justify the new regimes actions? I don't get the logic on this point. Its another poor argument accompanying a relatively valid one. Just the good argument would suffice.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;42946130]I can try but I don't know enough about the subject.
This is poor. Ukraine was also poart of the ussr, so was east germany. Do they also take some blame or do you give it to russia because you dislike it?[/quote]
Russia owned The Ukraine.
[quote]I wouldn't say backwards as ever. They have some majorly whack policies but its a big improvement from where they were. As for Chechnya I cannot condone that action it was rather brutal.[/quote]
They have a secret police, wiretap peoples phones, are rated as a broken/flawed democracy on the democracy index, their president is a criminal and ex-kgb agent, they have shitty LGBT policies, there is poor freedom of speech, their post-soviet academia is a joke (Femenko anyone?), and oligarchs run the show.
[quote]So would the old regime being punished justify the new regimes actions? I don't get the logic on this point. Its another poor argument accompanying a relatively valid one. Just the good argument would suffice.[/QUOTE]
You don't get it. The old regime never left. The old regime /is/ the new regime. The only difference is that they aged and the older ones retired.
Russia still has the same sorts of people in power that they did forty years ago.
Ukraine doesn't have a 'the' in front of it btw
[QUOTE=Bengley;42946200]Ukraine doesn't have a 'the' in front of it btw[/QUOTE]
is the definite article of the country really that important for you
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42946214]is the definitive article of the country really that important for you[/QUOTE]
No but I'd be pretty annoyed if someone kept calling the place I live 'The England'
[QUOTE=Bengley;42946230]No but I'd be pretty annoyed if someone kept calling the place I live 'The England'[/QUOTE]
"the ukraine" is just another name for the country, historically it was used quite a lot, but people are arguing today which is the correct one to use
i just used "the ukraine" and i didnt really think somebody would be that nitpicky about something so trivial
Yeah and the Czech Republic used to be called Czechoslovakia but nobody refers to it as that anymore
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