Australian Minister Orders Anti-vaccination Group to Change Its Name. - Polidicks

[quote] [quote] [IMG]http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/11/27/1225962/003099-vaccination.jpg[/IMG] ============================================================ An anti-vaccination lobby group has been slapped with an order to change its name. Source: Sunday Herald Sun [/quote] A CONTROVERSIAL anti-vaccination lobby group has been slapped with an order to change its misleading name or be shut down. The NSW Office of Fair Trading doorstopped the home of [B]Australian Vaccination Network[/B] president Meryl Dorey yesterday with a letter of action, labelling the network's name misleading and a detriment to the community. NSW Fair Trading Minister Anthony Roberts fired a broadside at the AVN, saying the information it provided was a public safety issue of "life and death". "This is not a victimless issue, it's about the ability to stop pain and suffering," he said. Mr Roberts likened the AVN's message to sanctioning speeding. "People do not have the freedom of choice when it comes to endangering others ... it's the equivalent of saying a bloke can speed down the road and endanger others," he said. Mr Roberts said he was prepared for any appeals the AVN might make. "This is an order, it is not a request," he said. Mr Roberts has warned other states if the AVN tries to register elsewhere. NSW Fair Trading Assistant Commissioner for Compliance and Enforcement Robert Vellar says the AVN's name had misled parents seeking information. "People are being confused about the true nature of the information they are being provided on the AVN website, the name is misleading," he said. Mr Vellar said the NSW Government was working on changing definitions in the Associations Act to include group names that were in conflict with the group's charter. Complaints to the office from the Australian Medical Association prompted the move. It must change its name in two months or face deregistration. AMA (NSW) president, Assoc Prof Brian Owler, said the AVN needed to take responsibility for information it gave to parents. ============================================================ Source: [URL]http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/minister-orders-anti-vaccination-group-to-change-its-name/story-e6frf7kx-1226537155195#ixzz2F6QxaeeI[/URL] [/quote]

I hope that group gets deregistered.

Good. They're name implies their views don't kill people

If they're against vaccinations then fuck 'em, they're putting people at risk by spreading disinformation.

[QUOTE=The golden;38838200]Why are they even allowed to exist in the first place? Not only are they spreading incorrect information, they are potentially putting lives at risk.[/QUOTE] Not only that, they are also putting the lives of those who cannot be vaccinated at risk. If vaccination only applied to an individual, I'd be fine with people not getting them, but some people can't have certain vaccienes and need pack immunity to avoid being infected, and everyone should have the right to pack immunity. If someone is killed by the negligence of another, it's manslaughter, and I don't see why refusing to be vaccinated is any different, as it's harming the pack immunity. Also, refusing to give your kids vaccienes should be child cruelty, too. It's pretty much the same as withholding medical treatment that the child needs.

That name would confuse just about anyone looking for vaccination details [QUOTE]"This is an order, it is not a request," he said.[/QUOTE] Honestly it should be an order but I don't think he has enough power to say or do that

Their name sure is misleading. But the world still needs groups like this to prevent dangerous and "out of control" vaccinations. Recently there have been big debates here in Sweden about the swine flu vaccine. The evidence is piling up that the vaccine causes narcolepsi in children. Media hype and misuse of the word pandemic is a dangerous combination. This group is putting people at risk when it comes to certian good and well tested vaccines. But they are potentially also saving people in certian cases.

Good. There's no reason not to get vaccines for big killers. I could understand not getting a flu shot, those things are really only meant for people who can't fight the flu off normally, but the majority of vaccines cover dangerous bugs and should be gotten.

The whole anti-vaccination movement just baffles me. There is not a shred of legitimate medical information that says vaccinations cause autism or whatever else, yet I personally know people who blindly believe this mumbo-jumbo.

[QUOTE=Fouytan222;38840506]The whole anti-vaccination movement just baffles me. There is not a shred of legitimate medical information that says vaccinations cause autism or whatever else, yet I personally know people who blindly believe this mumbo-jumbo.[/QUOTE] Alternative Medicine makes lots of money, with that comes lots of influence.

Vaccines are CONTROVERSIAL. Anti-Vaccination is just a another excuse to make it evil, so someone can look bad, when the protestors are making a point that Vaccination is evil, bad or whatever, and causing their children to get sick, etc. [editline]16th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Fouytan222;38840506]The whole anti-vaccination movement just baffles me. There is not a shred of legitimate medical information that says vaccinations cause autism or whatever else, yet I personally know people who blindly believe this mumbo-jumbo.[/QUOTE] They aren't blind. If no one wants to get vaccinated that's their choice, surprised, they won't need them, protest or not, whether difference it makes, they got an alternate way to help themselves healthier, rather than get advice from doctors, that they think aren't properly treating people putting needles in their skin. And I don't know where you get your "medical information" from. Properly you don't search much on google about anti-vaccines. You properly do, I'll see that confirmation. It's more likely about the kids, of their chance developing diseases or sickness of any kind. It's making things worse. The adults can properly survive much better.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;38838470][quote]"This is an order, it is not a request," he said. [/quote] Honestly it should be an order but I don't think he has enough power to say or do that[/QUOTE] What?

[QUOTE=benos28;38845474]If no one wants to get vaccinated that's their choice, surprised, they won't need them, protest or not, whether difference it makes, they got an alternate way to help themselves healthier, rather than get advice from doctors, that they think aren't properly treating people putting needles in their skin. And I don't know where you get your "medical information" from. Properly you don't search much on google about anti-vaccines. You properly do, I'll see that confirmation. It's more likely about the kids, of their chance developing diseases or sickness of any kind. It's making things worse. The adults can properly survive much better.[/QUOTE] As someone on immunosuppressing drugs for medical reasons, people not getting immunised is a big risk for me. It's not just about the people you're jabbing, it's about the wider community and people who can't be immunised for whatever reason - because if someone doesn't get immunised and gets something and I pick it up, I'm in a deep amount of shit.

[QUOTE=benos28;38845474]Vaccines are CONTROVERSIAL. Anti-Vaccination is just a another excuse to make it evil, so someone can look bad, when the protestors are making a point that Vaccination is evil, bad or whatever, and causing their children to get sick, etc. [editline]16th December 2012[/editline] They aren't blind. If no one wants to get vaccinated that's their choice, surprised, they won't need them, protest or not, whether difference it makes, they got an alternate way to help themselves healthier, rather than get advice from doctors, that they think aren't properly treating people putting needles in their skin. And I don't know where you get your "medical information" from. Properly you don't search much on google about anti-vaccines. You properly do, I'll see that confirmation. It's more likely about the kids, of their chance developing diseases or sickness of any kind. It's making things worse. The adults can properly survive much better.[/QUOTE] Would you say that again please? But in English this time.

When AVN offer free Kool-Aid, don't drink it!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo[/media]

[QUOTE=Terminutter;38838273]Also, refusing to give your kids vaccienes should be child cruelty, too. It's pretty much the same as withholding medical treatment that the child needs.[/QUOTE] I can understand why some parents don't want to give their children vaccines. Vaccines always have the risk of complications, like causing reactions and in some cases violent reactions that can be life threatening. Although the possibility of bad things happening from vaccinations is relatively low, it's still enough to make parents worry about it. I know from experience that vaccinations can go bad. A few of the vaccinations I had as a child caused me to get violently ill and I had to go to the hospital for treatment. Some of the boosters I had later in my adult life also caused some complications that required some doctors visits and medicine to treat, which went away in 3-4 weeks. Even with all of the crap I had to deal with, I still think parents should immunize their children, but only the bare essentials (like childhood diseases.) There are a lot of extra vaccines available that doctors often push, which I think parents should carefully consider based on their lifestyle choices whether to get or not.

[QUOTE=bohb;38846712]I can understand why some parents don't want to give their children vaccines. Vaccines always have the risk of complications, like causing reactions and in some cases violent reactions that can be life threatening. Although the possibility of bad things happening from vaccinations is relatively low, it's still enough to make parents worry about it. I know from experience that vaccinations can go bad. A few of the vaccinations I had as a child caused me to get violently ill and I had to go to the hospital for treatment. Some of the boosters I had later in my adult life also caused some complications that required some doctors visits and medicine to treat, which went away in 3-4 weeks. Even with all of the crap I had to deal with, I still think parents should immunize their children, but only the bare essentials (like childhood diseases.) There are a lot of extra vaccines available that doctors often push, which I think parents should carefully consider based on their lifestyle choices whether to get or not.[/QUOTE] If you don't have a known allergy to the vaccines, the side-effects from them will never be anywhere near as bad as the actual disease. If a disease is bad enough such as Meningococcal, which a friend of mine actually did have a bad reaction to, it is always far better to have some minor reactions which can be treated than an outbreak and some real deaths. Flu shots are optional, non-serious diseases are optional, but they give you vaccinations for things like Hepatitis rather than that shit.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;38846888]If you don't have a known allergy to the vaccines, the side-effects from them will never be anywhere near as bad as the actual disease.[/QUOTE] The thing is that you can't actually know whether or not you have allergies/reactions to the vaccine until you get it. In my case, the reaction to one of the vaccines was as bad as having the disease itself, if not worse.

[QUOTE=bohb;38847293]The thing is that you can't actually know whether or not you have allergies/reactions to the vaccine until you get it. In my case, the reaction to one of the vaccines was as bad as having the disease itself, if not worse.[/QUOTE] If you had that bad of allergic reaction to the vaccine, not only is it in a controlled environment where they can treat it better, you would have had a worse than normal reaction to the actual disease. I was referring to people who have known allergies to vaccine components, because bad reactions are common and while they may suck, they are nowhere near as bad as actually getting it. Even if you are suspect of bad reactions, it is always a risk assessment. Risk a few days in hospital, to risking death by a preventable disease. Is it that hard of choice?

[QUOTE=bohb;38847293]The thing is that you can't actually know whether or not you have allergies/reactions to the vaccine until you get it. In my case, the reaction to one of the vaccines was as bad as having the disease itself, if not worse.[/QUOTE] If that's true, you had better odds of getting struck by lightning, so it still isn't reasonable to blame that on the vaccine. That's like associating drinking water with water intoxication, yeah it happens, but to no degree that justifies being concerned about it. A certain percentage of freaky shit will always happen, that's just life.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38845719]Would you say that again please? But in English this time.[/QUOTE] No, this is sparta.

[QUOTE=benos28;38845474]Vaccines are CONTROVERSIAL. Anti-Vaccination is just a another excuse to make it evil, so someone can look bad, when the protestors are making a point that Vaccination is evil, bad or whatever, and causing their children to get sick, etc. [editline]16th December 2012[/editline] They aren't blind. If no one wants to get vaccinated that's their choice, surprised, they won't need them, protest or not, whether difference it makes, they got an alternate way to help themselves healthier, rather than get advice from doctors, that they think aren't properly treating people putting needles in their skin. And I don't know where you get your "medical information" from. Properly you don't search much on google about anti-vaccines. You properly do, I'll see that confirmation. It's more likely about the kids, of their chance developing diseases or sickness of any kind. It's making things worse. The adults can properly survive much better.[/QUOTE] it's not your choice when your refusal to vaccinate endangers society as a whole

[QUOTE=The golden;38838200]Why are they even allowed to exist in the first place?[/QUOTE] Because this isn't nazi germany. [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1232850]Or modern germany for that matter[/url]

[QUOTE=zakedodead;38849365]Because this isn't nazi germany. [/QUOTE] The problem is that this is actively killing children. The prominence of vaccination has distinguished us from our medieval counterparts because the fact that we can now live for longer than 30 years.

[QUOTE=Mike42012;38849506]The problem is that this is actively killing children. The prominence of vaccination has distinguished us from our medieval counterparts because the fact that we can now live for longer than 30 years.[/QUOTE] I don't like them either but saying "Why are they even allowed to have those opinions and organize around them in the first place" is just stupid.

[QUOTE=zakedodead;38849522]I don't like them either but saying "Why are they even allowed to have those opinions and organize around them in the first place" is just stupid.[/QUOTE] I don't give a shit as to whether or not you and I like them. They are actively killing people, children, who have no say as to how they get treated when they are that age.

[QUOTE=Mike42012;38849583]I don't give a shit as to whether or not you and I like them. They are actively killing people, children, who have no say as to how they get treated when they are that age.[/QUOTE] i think outright banning them from organizing is a bit brutish though. especially if vaccination isn't mandatory. if we make vaccinations mandatory(we should) and these people organize specifically to evade the law then i am all aboard with banning them and arresting them. however, people freely associating in an organization that doesn't intend to break the law is a bit hypocritical. it's tricky because i absolutely agree that these people are dangerous to society, but i think we need to have a movement and legislation that reflects it before simply saying "you're not allowed to organize anymore"

The name definitely needs to be changed, but to say such organizations should be banned is a bit ridiculous. Assuming there's no misleading name involved, the extreme degrees of ignorance and/or paranoia you'd need to believe any of this anti-vaccine bullshit is utterly through the roof. People that enormously stupid and recklessly negligent are just as likely to set their house on fire or accidentally drink drain cleaner, they shouldn't be used as a solid statistic for banning this particular instance of free thought/speech.

[QUOTE=PelPix123;38849174]FYI, I believe the doctor that fabricated the study linking vaccines to autism and other disorders was actually in league with a vaccine company. The plan was to have this study sweep the world and then have his partner the vaccine company come out with a "non-autism" vaccine that the doctor would then "approve," making them billions. I believe he was found guilty of fraud for this, but anti-vacers somehow still cite his study (Pretty much the lone large-scale study on the subject).[/QUOTE] He got prosecuted for fraud after a massive conflict of interest was proven, but the study Andrew Wakefield did (who thankfully was stripped of his doctorate) had a sample size of like 8 kids and basically consisted of him making up a load of shit, saying "the MMR vacciene causes autism" then letting the Lancet and the media do the rest. I wish he had been prosecuted for so much more, he pretty much singlehandedly managed to stop the elimination of perfectly preventable diseases. The newspapers should have been forced to write about the fact that the study was discredited entirely due to the fact that peer review found it as total bullshit and put it on the front page.