• CIA Drone Killings Could Lead To A "PlayStation Mentality" Towards Killing
    79 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Yahoo News]GENEVA (Reuters) – A United Nations investigator called Wednesday for a halt to CIA-directed drone strikes on suspected Islamic militants, warning that killings ordered far from the battlefield could lead to a "Playstation" mentality. Philip Alston, U.N. special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions, said missile strikes could be justified only when it was impossible to capture insurgents alive instead and only if they were carried out by regular U.S. armed forces operating with proper oversight and respect for the rules of war. The Central Intelligence Agency's use of unmanned Predator or Reaper drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan against al Qaeda and Taliban suspects had led to the death of "many hundreds," including innocent civilians, he said in a 29-page report. "Intelligence agencies, which by definition are determined to remain unaccountable except to their own paymasters, have no place in running programs that kill people in other countries," Alston said. The world does not know when and where the CIA is authorized to kill, its criteria for choosing targets, whether they are lawful killings, and how it follows up when civilians are illegally killed, said Alston, an independent expert who will present his report to the U.N. Human Rights Council Thursday. The United States is among the Geneva forum's 47 members. Under President Barack Obama, the CIA has stepped up its drone strikes in the tribal zone of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan, targeting not only high-level al Qaeda and Taliban targets but largely unknown foot soldiers as well. Following a directive first issued by former President George W. Bush and continued by Obama, the CIA has widened the "target set" for drone strikes in Pakistan, Reuters reported last month. Al Qaeda's third-in-command, Sheikh Sa'id al-Masri, is believed to have been killed in May in a U.S. missile strike in Pakistan, U.S. officials said earlier this week. The United States is believed to control the fleet of drones from CIA headquarters in Virginia, coordinating with civilian pilots near hidden airfields in Afghanistan and Pakistan who fly the drones remotely, according to Alston, an Australian who teaches at New York University School of Law. "PLAYSTATION MENTALITY" "Because operators are based thousands of miles away from the battlefield, and undertake operations entirely through computer screens and remote audio-feed, there is a risk of developing a 'Playstation' mentality to killing," he said, referring to the popular Sony video game console. Under international law, targeted killings are permitted in armed conflicts when used against fighters or civilians who engage directly in combat-like activities, Alston said. "But they are increasingly being used far from any battle zone." Israel stands accused of ordering the killing of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a Hamas military commander, in a Dubai hotel room in January. Israel has neither confirmed nor denied a role in the murder. Alston said Russia was also suspected of conducting targeted killings in Chechnya and beyond the breakaway region as part of its counter-terrorism operations. The United States is among 40 countries with drone technology, according to Alston. Britain, China, France, India, Iran, Israel, Russia and Turkey are named as having or seeking the capacity to fire missiles from their drones. But countries should use graduated force and where possible capture suspects rather than kill them, he said. "Thus, rather than using drone strikes, U.S. forces should, wherever and whenever possible, conduct arrests or use less-than-lethal force to restrain," he said.[/QUOTE][url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100602/ts_nm/us_killings_drones[/url] Hope this doesn't mean Australia is going to start banning Playstations now.
Guys we gotta put our people in harms way so they HAVE to feel something when they gun down Jihad Joe with their really expensive RC helicopter!
I can't wait until there are only robots fighting. Or even better, make video games replace war.
Sounds like fun.
Lovely. Blame it on the video games once more.
Does CIA also have obnoxious people on UAV Live?
[QUOTE=evilweazel;22328219]Guys we gotta put our people in harms way so they HAVE to feel something when they gun down Jihad Joe with their really expensive RC helicopter![/QUOTE] [QUOTE=starpluck;22328671]Lovely. Blame it on the video games once more.[/QUOTE] I have the feeling you didn't read the article/you don't really grasp what Alston was saying. :downsbravo:
But playstation has no game
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22328878]But playstation has no game[/QUOTE] ZING oh the pun
[QUOTE=amos106;22328867]I have the feeling you didn't read the article[/QUOTE] Damn straight.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Glorbo;22328981]ZING oh the pun[/QUOTE] what is zing
[QUOTE=altthe6th;22329399]what is zing[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zing[/url]
[QUOTE=altthe6th;22329399]what is zing[/QUOTE] A rating we used to have.
I suppose that using a drone to kill people could make the killing seem less real, but it's not like it would desensitize people to actually being in a battlefield. I've killed countless people in video games, but I would never be able to kill someone in real life.
[QUOTE=ColinSSX;22329460]I suppose that using a drone to kill people could make the killing seem less real, but it's not like it would desensitize people to actually being in a battlefield. I've killed countless people in video games, but I would never be able to kill someone in real life.[/QUOTE] That's the point, it's not like anyone would go from being a UAV pilot to... anything else. Especially not battlefield.
You kind of saw this in the chopper gunner video. The gunners had a different mentality towards their targets than ground personnel that practically look their opponents in the eye.
[QUOTE=Clavus;22330235]You kind of saw this in the chopper gunner video. The gunners had a different mentality towards their targets than ground personnel that practically look their opponents in the eye.[/QUOTE] So did the fucking soldiers on the ground. It's human nature to dehumanize your enemy. It doesn't matter where the fuck you kill them from, even when wars were fought hand to hand, the two nations would dehumanize each other. For individual soldiers, it's a coping mechanism at worst. Besides that, air warfare already did this since WW2. Tons of bombing campaigns were carried out against cities, carpet bombing thousands, and killing many civilians. Did the bomber pilots feel that they were killing innocent civilians? or that they were at least killing someone? These drones at least have cameras and are accurate with their weaponry, unlike 5000lbs of explosives falling out of a B17 over a city.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;22330401]So did the fucking soldiers on the ground. It's human nature to dehumanize your enemy. It doesn't matter where the fuck you kill them from, even when wars were fought hand to hand, the two nations would dehumanize each other. For individual soldiers, it's a coping mechanism at worst. Besides that, air warfare already did this since WW2. Tons of bombing campaigns were carried out against cities, carpet bombing thousands, and killing many civilians. Did the bomber pilots feel that they were killing innocent civilians? or that they were at least killing someone? These drones at least have cameras and are accurate with their weaponry, unlike 5000lbs of explosives falling out of a B17 over a city.[/QUOTE] You're kind of making a mess of your argument, what are you trying to tell me. I agreed with the CIA's warning. Sure, dehumanizing your enemy is a requirement for soldiers to fight on, but it shouldn't turn into a game for soldiers because it starts looking like a game (through a drone camera).
So the tiny minority of people that are drone pilots might be desensitized to death? Or the leaks of videos might do it? If it's the former, who the fuck cares? A man who works on a children's leukemia ward might cry himself to sleep every night, then eventually stop caring, but why does that matter? [editline]11:15PM[/editline] To all the naysayers, that's a fucking good analogy.
[QUOTE=Wolfie13;22332319]So the tiny minority of people that are drone pilots might be desensitized to death? Or the leaks of videos might do it? If it's the former, who the fuck cares? A man who works on a children's leukemia ward might cry himself to sleep every night, then eventually stop caring, but why does that matter? [editline]11:15PM[/editline] To all the naysayers, that's a fucking good analogy.[/QUOTE] It's not that they might become desensitized to death, but that they turn it into a game. That's what they mean with 'Playstation effect'. Soldiers need to keep the mentality that it's their job and that they're doing it for a serious goal.
[QUOTE=Clavus;22330235]You kind of saw this in the chopper gunner video. The gunners had a different mentality towards their targets than ground personnel that practically look their opponents in the eye.[/QUOTE] There is definitely no problem with not caring about killing a bunch of insurgents that would likely go blow themselves up to kill your friends, and several other civilians.
Clavus acts like everyone who kills people via drones, or helicopter gun is laughing their asses off drinking mountain dew and keeping score. [editline]10:24PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Clavus;22332446]It's not that they might become desensitized to death, but that they turn it into a game. That's what they mean with 'Playstation effect'. Soldiers need to keep the mentality that it's their job and that they're doing it for a serious goal.[/QUOTE] Who are you to say they don't keep that mentality? I don't need to stab someone in the throat to realize that they are human, i'd feel the same killing them with a rifle 20 yards away
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;22332503]Clavus acts like everyone who kills people via drones, or helicopter gun is laughing their asses off drinking mountain dew and keeping score.[/QUOTE] Sometimes they do not like there's a problem with that if their enemy is that which would blow themselves up to murder your family or something like that
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;22332503]Clavus acts like everyone who kills people via drones, or helicopter gun is laughing their asses off drinking mountain dew and keeping score. [/QUOTE] Some of them do that while directly killing people with weapons in a helicopter as we've seen once already
Well I would be doing the same if I was in a dangerous environment for months at a time. Hell, i'd probably be worse than the people in the wikileaks video, which was also taken out of context btw.
I kind of have to agree with the UN guy here. When killing people is as simple as clicking a mouse at an image on the screen, it'll be used as a solution to a lot more problems. And frankly, I don't see why we deserve the ability to murder people with impunity and no risk to ourselves.
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22332486]There is definitely no problem with not caring about killing a bunch of insurgents that would likely go blow themselves up to kill your friends, and several other civilians.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;22332503]Clavus acts like everyone who kills people via drones, or helicopter gun is laughing their asses off drinking mountain dew and keeping score. [editline]10:24PM[/editline] Who are you to say they don't keep that mentality?[/QUOTE] Don't put words in my mouth. I know soldiers need to be able to relax, but there is a line between seeing it as your job, and seeing it as a game. I'm not saying that soldiers won't keep their heads straight, I'm just clarifying that the CIA talks about a legitimate concern here. You need to be able to discuss these things without getting all emotional about how much soldiers are already sacrificing and shit.
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;22332580]Well I would be doing the same if I was in a dangerous environment for months at a time. Hell, i'd probably be worse than the people in the wikileaks video, which was also taken out of context btw.[/QUOTE] the "controversy" for the video was overblown, and people that bitched about it didn't understand what it's like for them. [editline]03:30PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Clavus;22332627]Don't put words in my mouth. I know soldiers need to be able to relax, but there is a line between seeing it as your job, and seeing it as a game. I'm not saying that soldiers won't keep their heads straight, I'm just clarifying that the CIA talks about a legitimate concern here. You need to be able to discuss these things without getting all emotional about how much soldiers are already sacrificing and shit.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with seeing it as a game...?
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;22332649]What's wrong with seeing it as a game...?[/QUOTE] A LOT. That statement is so stupid I'm not even going to start an argument against it.
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