[B]I'll start off by saying that I am an arrogant, elitist bastard when it comes to music. I say things that are unfair and almost completely ignore the subjective aspect of music. I know what I know to be the end all, be all truth. [/B] So remember who you're responding to when you decide to do so.
What I want to discuss is [B]Technicality VS Musicality[/B] in music and what I know about the two.
I see that a lot of people base a Band or particular musicians greatness on how extravagant or showy they can be with their instrument. How quickly they can play, how much complexity they can cover within a five minute song and so on. This is the typical approach of an average person (or aspiring musician) to music and the musicians world.
The guitar solo, drum solo, bass solo, vocal solo (Desperate American Idol contestants hiding behind scales and vocal range) are the things that I'm talking about.
These are great displays of showmanship and I don't blame the people that have a fit over them, it truly is impressive. I think us dudes especially dig it because it is one of the most spectacular displays of high status (and you know those shredders are getting laid 24/7) - which is another reason why so many pick up an instrument or learn the solo's via ultimate-guitar.com. . It is impressive. Nothing more, nothing less. All impressive chops within a song that makes the bitches swoon and your friends envy you. I suppose it would be nice to cover your ass when necessary ; perhaps, on the green line home from Boston when a sniveling drunk Bro keeps begging you to play the stairway to heaven solo several times while swinging from the rubber handle .. the people stare and your balls retract (!!!) *execute clever line here*..
[IMG]http://file.vustv.com/ARJKqrlZVJo5x.jpg[/IMG]
But does any of that shit really matter? If you ask me, I could care less. I think the pentatonic scale has been thoroughly ass fucked so many times by musicians that it has become something that just reminds me of Dad music (Classic rock .. . WZLX for my Boston readers). I think just about any dicking around on guitar is mediocre.
It seems that everyone does it.. like anybody can do it with enough practice, finger exercises and an apprenticeship under Manny - the 40 year old Russian guitar teacher that charges $90 an hour.. ah, the suburbs.
But how many of these people can pick out notes that are actually going to make a song what it is.. Not many - and that's for damn sure.
This is where musicality, a lost art, comes into play.
People have forgotten (especially musicians) what it means to be a band. They forgot what it means to listen to each other and actually play as a group. A band is not a band if one or two people are left out. You can't expect to create something good if you're ears aren't open to the rest of the band. There won't be a distinctive sound to a group if everyone is playing with their dicks (get it? Dicking around?) and the band will inevitably see some sort of clash in the future because someone isn't getting their time to "shine". It takes a true musician to pick out certain notes that make a song what it is. It is an artistry that not many can live up to. Lennon/McCartney are notable masters of this that EVERYONE knows about for those reasons. They crafted melodies that influenced a generation of people and music (if your parents are in their 50's they know)
Music is not about chops and skill. It's about bringing something to the table within a group (or if you make music by yourself, whatever you want). If all you have is routine licks that you go through when playing, you're not being musical, you're being a showman. And if this is your preferable musical style, that works too.. there are plenty of jobs for session musicians and Metal cover bands that you can find on Craigslist.org.
Obviously, you need to have some experience with your instrument to play well however, instead of focusing on learning chops you should instead learn how to tap into the music and not yourself. Removing the Egotistical aspect of music is important, you play the instrument, not the instrument playing you. You shouldn't feel like you have to impress anybody in any case in life. I feel that when a musician surrounds himself with tons of effects, drum pieces and cymbals it shows that he is incapable of creating a real sound. Which is why he went out and bought as much shit as possible to compensate for his lack of musical ability.
What we need in music are more naturals. People who are actually gifted (people use this term loosely) with what they do and take their shit seriously and not hobbyists that happen to have skill.
This is just my opinion. Do what you feel but please don't be another douchebag contributing to the destruction of the true musical essence.
who gives a fucking shit whether its either
as long as it sounds good its good
My run-in of an analogous concept is something I term as "Technicality vs Soul".
There is an innumerable number of negative responses to particular cover work by bands or an individual. Usually people will categorize them in one of these two categories (as being technically skilled or had a lot of soul) but then completely destroy them on lacking the other (or not even praise say their technical skill and just flat out say "No soul... try again"). While there are various situations where this argument is properly applied, I like to think of two categories of critics... 1.) Honest and 2.) asshole.
The point of this is to argue that many people are just naturally jealous of someone else's talent. Rather than praise someone's work (which much of which may actually be GOOD) they just look for an edge to lay waste with criticism and discredit the work. Its sad really but in the age of anonymity behind a monitor screen the inside bully frequently shows itself. Just a little rant.
[QUOTE]People have forgotten (especially musicians) what it means to be a band. They forgot what it means to listen to each other and actually play as a group.[/QUOTE]
See: Jazz
Too much of anything is bad, I like a good mix between the two.
I prefer simple music that sounds good far more than techy wankery that sounds shit but there's great shit that's technical as fuck, it just depends how you execute it. And how good at writing you actually are. Just because you can play fast as hell and in a funny time signature doesn't make you a good band.
[QUOTE=monotonous15;32150352]My run-in of an analogous concept is something I term as "Technicality vs Soul".
There is an innumerable number of negative responses to particular cover work by bands or an individual. Usually people will categorize them in one of these two categories (as being technically skilled or had a lot of soul) but then completely destroy them on lacking the other (or not even praise say their technical skill and just flat out say "No soul... try again"). While there are various situations where this argument is properly applied, I like to think of two categories of critics... 1.) Honest and 2.) asshole.
The point of this is to argue that many people are just naturally jealous of someone else's talent. Rather than praise someone's work (which much of which may actually be GOOD) they just look for an edge to lay waste with criticism and discredit the work. Its sad really but in the age of anonymity behind a monitor screen the inside bully frequently shows itself. Just a little rant.
See: Jazz[/QUOTE]
You're spot on, I am an asshole but this thread is in no way trying to bully other people. If somebody takes offense to what I have said and they feel hurt, tough shit. This is just a little rant. And I'm not jealous of other peoples talents, I have no desire to play the way other play though I taught myself how to play by watching Hendrix play and by ear. I like what I do as a musician, and I am talented.
I give credit where credit is due. If I don't like something, I'm not going to tell the person that it is good. That's worse than being an asshole.
[editline]6th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=mikeyt493;32150815]I prefer simple music that sounds good far more than techy wankery that sounds shit but there's great shit that's technical as fuck, it just depends how you execute it. And how good at writing you actually are. Just because you can play fast as hell and in a funny time signature doesn't make you a good band.[/QUOTE]
Right, I'm not saying it's impossible to pull it off .
[editline]6th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=gerbile5;32150316]who gives a fucking shit whether its either
as long as it sounds good its good[/QUOTE]
Right, music is subjective.
[editline]6th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=monotonous15;32150352]See: Jazz[/QUOTE]
Thanks I'll make sure to check it out
One of my favourite albums is the first Ramones and I can forgive them for sucking at their instruments (I'm pretty sure they would agree) but they rock too hard for me to care.
[QUOTE=Hooky;32151004]You're spot on, I am an asshole but this thread is in no way trying to bully other people. If somebody takes offense to what I have said and they feel hurt, tough shit. This is just a little rant. And I'm not jealous of other peoples talents, I have no desire to play the way other play though I taught myself how to play by watching Hendrix play and by ear. I like what I do as a musician, and I am talented.
I give credit where credit is due. If I don't like something, I'm not going to tell the person that it is good. That's worse than being an asshole. [/QUOTE]
Replying 'just in case' (since apparently I'm misunderstood a lot as seen in other threads) I wasn't trying to imply that you were being an asshole at all. In fact you make a good point with your original post. I just thought it was a good place to slip in my little rant.
I also agree with Franke and mikeyT's points
[QUOTE=monotonous15;32151702]Replying 'just in case' (since apparently I'm misunderstood a lot as seen in other threads) I wasn't trying to imply that you were being an asshole at all. In fact you make a good point with your original post. I just thought it was a good place to slip in my little rant.
I also agree with Franke and mikeyT's points[/QUOTE]
I had a feeling I read your post wrong.. :tinfoil:
[QUOTE=pie_is_good;32151374]One of my favourite albums is the first Ramones and I can forgive them for sucking at their instruments (I'm pretty sure they would agree) but they rock too hard for me to care.[/QUOTE]
This is definitely one of my favourite albums too, but I'm too musically ignorant(see: I don't know any musical theory) to really care if they're good at their instruments or not. If it sounds good and my ears are happy, I'm a fucking happy camper.
It's dumb to pit the two against each other. Musicality, from what your description made it seem, is an all encompassing term for what sounds good, so yes that's going to be more valuable when it comes to music.
Technicality (or complexity) can definitely add to a piece. It's certainly not limited to showmanship. I'd think you'd find it hard to argue that [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXQCPAR0EHo]rachmaninov's[/url] pieces aren't musical, and the same could be said for other "technical" bands today. Showmanship has its place, personally I believe it should be left on the stage, but if a band wants to add flair to a song - what's wrong with that?
[QUOTE=Hooky;32158634]I had a feeling I read your post wrong.. :tinfoil:[/QUOTE]
No worries. Just glad I was able to nip it in the bud this time. More often than not things I say piss people off because I'm misunderstood. Black and white can be so cold sometimes.
I agree to an extent, but I would like to point out that there are still many great musicians who have beastly chops and can shred all day and often do, but are mocked and often made fun of because they do.
Do not ignore the jealousy that quite a few people hold against people who have some of these abilities, especially by fellow musicians. The musician mentality and ego is quite pathetic at times.
A great example of my point can be found in a different area of music. DCI or Drum Corps International and the drumlines within them. These kids have brought their musicianship and skill to a whole different level, but many vets (aged 40+) often complain that these kids are, "all chops no music" when that is simply not the case. The new generation is simply filled with a whole new different mentality.
But at the end of the day, I'm just trying to say, just because someone can shred, doesn't mean they aren't making music. There a lot of good people passed off as shredders when they're also great musicians. Then again you can usually spot a good shredder vs a bad shredder pretty easily.
Music is as good as it makes you feel.
My apologies for winning the discussion.
[img]http://x.dzog.us/img/big-smug.png[/img]
[QUOTE=AK'z;32180955]Music is as good as it makes you feel.
[/QUOTE]
But... but... if we admit to that then we cannot have argumentative discussions about what music is and isn't good! A relative scale throws out all absolutes! Oh the horror!
[QUOTE=monotonous15;32181233]But... but... if we admit to that then we cannot have argumentative discussions about what music is and isn't good! A relative scale throws out all absolutes! Oh the horror![/QUOTE]
Music is about discussion. Arguements bring out people's bad side.
Rather than complaining about something being "Not as moving" as the next thing, we should all have the ability to relate to people's artistry and not put people down.
Music should not be political.
I don't give a shit about technicality as long as the music in itself is good.
Have a case of technicality... too much wanking and [b]NO[/b] musicality.
[highlight][h2]WARNING: THE FOLLOWING VIDEO HAS BEEN POSTED A LOT OF TIMES.[/h2][/highlight]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKf3OXIEPmM[/media]
And David Shankle [b]ACTUALLY[/b] thinks that it sounds good.
what the fuck was that
[QUOTE=thisispain;32205171]what the fuck was that[/QUOTE]
David. Motherfucking. Shankle.
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