"Yeah ok" - Eurozone reaches agreement on Greek bailout and reforms - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33503955[/url] [quote]Eurozone leaders have agreed to offer Greece a third bailout, after marathon talks in Brussels. Amid one of the worst crises in the EU's history, the head of the European Commission said the risk of Greece leaving the eurozone had been averted. Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said that after a "tough battle", Greece had secured debt restructuring and a "growth package". Greece will now have to pass reforms demanded by the eurozone by Wednesday. These include measures to streamline pensions, raise tax revenue and liberalise the labour market. An EU statement spoke of up to €86bn (£61bn) of financing for Greece over three years.[/quote]

Dammit. I totally thought they were going to fold this time.

I wonder what will happen to Syriza now? They've completely betrayed their founding principles and I wonder whether the Greek people will still support them or even whether they'll even just fragment as a party entirely as those who are against any austerity what so ever just leave.

So what will happen if Greece fails to make [I]this[/I] bailout work? I don't want to be so cynical, but it's kind of hard not to be when this is the third one.

That title is funnier than it should be. Imagine all the hard talks going on then one side just goes "Yeah ok".

No debt restructuring but no more sales to china. The Germans really didn't want to move on anything they got their cake

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;48193474]That title is funnier than it should be. Imagine all the hard talks going on then one side just goes "Yeah ok".[/QUOTE] That old saying "countries will be countries."

so another 3 years before they need a fourth bailout? :rolleyes:

fuck sake I can already hear the mass bitching in my country, I'm suddenly glad I'm working in Austria for a month

Syrizas main voting population will probably switch over to other leftist parties or at worse switch directly to Golden Dawn.

[QUOTE=Wiggles;48193332]So what will happen if Greece fails to make [I]this[/I] bailout work? I don't want to be so cynical, but it's kind of hard not to be when this is the third one.[/QUOTE] Especially as they were given no wiggle-room to make it work, in fact, they're even more straitjacketed than they were before.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48193980]Syrizas main voting population will probably switch over to other leftist parties or at worse switch directly to [B]Golden Dawn.[/B][/QUOTE] Come on with it now, that's like saying UKIP's going to take over parliament.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48194049]Come on with it now, that's like saying UKIP's going to take over parliament.[/QUOTE] Honestly, with how people are responding at the moment in Greece, I would not be surprised. Not to mention that Tspiras is already sweating over the fact that his party might sink from people splitting apart on ideologies.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48194049]Come on with it now, that's like saying UKIP's going to take over parliament.[/QUOTE] Comparing Golden Dawn with UKIP is a bit over the top. [editline]13th July 2015[/editline] I'm not getting Tsipras' strategy here. He had a referendum only to basicly spit on it and accept 90% of the original EU demands? This is state of the art betrayal to your people. Not getting the EU either, we know they're never going to pay (because they simply can't), yet we're going to lend them more money? This is like pouring gasoline on a fire. I'm not even sure anyone knows what the fuck they're doing anymore.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48194049]Come on with it now, that's like saying UKIP's going to take over parliament.[/QUOTE] But.....do you remember how the political landscape in germany during the 1918-9 was? Due to the economic meltdown, people went to the extremes of the political spectrum. Basically, the same will happen there in Greece, people who have held "traditional" values will mostly give Golden Dawn a shot and those who have voted Syriza and saw it fail, will go even more to the left.

[QUOTE=headshotter;48194256]Comparing Golden Dawn with UKIP is a bit over the top.[/QUOTE] I am comparing them only in the sense that people are always paranoid about their "growth" when in the end it's all sensationalism and they really are only raking in a tiny percentage. [editline]13th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48194366]But.....do you remember how the political landscape in germany during the 1918-9 was? Due to the economic meltdown, people went to the extremes of the political spectrum. Basically, the same will happen there in Greece, people who have held "traditional" values will mostly give Golden Dawn a shot and those who have voted Syriza and saw it fail, will go even more to the left.[/QUOTE] Come on. You guys aren't exactly wrong, but the way it might happen is far too irrational. Extremist-like mentality across a nation doesn't develop by everyone going "hey those crazy fuckers don't seem so crazy anymore", it starts with a party that only seems slightly conservative and national focused, but then later on grows out of hand after it has already been put in power. Same happened with your example, Hitler sure did try the "fuck u guvrment I run dis shit now" shtick, but it failed. The second time was far more subtle and didn't start out with the crazy head on. I'm butchering things here, but basically if Greece is going to grow an extremely nationalistic movement, it wont be by putting a group such as Golden Dawn into power, but by a far less right leaning group (that still leans right).

There were no positives left for Greece, they just had to pick one of the hard paths to rebuild their finances. Seems staying in the Euro turned out to be the determining factor. Now let's hope the Greek populace can accept that answer and not change their political leanings again in order to gamble for yet another outcome. I wonder if they actually gained anything with these latest talks as opposed to the previous deal they made and broke.

Because Syriza didn't have the balls to actively run an anti-Euro platform, they never got a mandate to actually leave the Eurozone/EU. Instead they fudged it and pretended they could have everything at once to be as populist as possible. When the actual economist, Varoufakis, realised that talks were going to be impossible and suggested leaving the Euro, he was sacked, even though at this point economically the right decision is unquestionably to leave. Germany conquering Europe with banks instead of guns and its working, bullying smaller states into giving up their sovereignty and deliberately working against growing their economy to make an example of them (since there is absolutely no economic basis even from supporters of austerity behind what they are doing).

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;48197161]Because Syriza didn't have the balls to actively run an anti-Euro platform, they never got a mandate to actually leave the Eurozone/EU. Instead they fudged it and pretended they could have everything at once to be as populist as possible. When the actual economist, Varoufakis, realised that talks were going to be impossible and suggested leaving the Euro, he was sacked, even though at this point economically the right decision is unquestionably to leave. Germany conquering Europe with banks instead of guns and its working, bullying smaller states into giving up their sovereignty and deliberately working against growing their economy to make an example of them (since there is absolutely no economic basis even from supporters of austerity behind what they are doing).[/QUOTE] there was a piece that suggested that one of the reasons that the EU is in a mess is that Germany set up the rules to try and make every country adhere to its own economic model -- exporting more than it imports -- even though this is by definition impossible to achieve universally since someone needs to actually accept the exports of european countries.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;48197161]Because Syriza didn't have the balls to actively run an anti-Euro platform, they never got a mandate to actually leave the Eurozone/EU. Instead they fudged it and pretended they could have everything at once to be as populist as possible. When the actual economist, Varoufakis, realised that talks were going to be impossible and suggested leaving the Euro, he was sacked, even though at this point economically the right decision is unquestionably to leave. Germany conquering Europe with banks instead of guns and its working, bullying smaller states into giving up their sovereignty and deliberately working against growing their economy to make an example of them (since there is absolutely no economic basis even from supporters of austerity behind what they are doing).[/QUOTE]Leaving would be a psychotic move economically. Varoufakis left because he was an active detriment to any possibility of talks because he was constantly hostile and outright called them terrorists.

Well, seems good I guess. There's been a 5 minutes to midnight attitude every day in the news for the past 2-3 weeks.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Sn0nzHl.gif[/img] Greece receiving their latest bailout money

The fire being the austerity measures and their public assets being sold... yeah

[QUOTE=wewt!;48195728]I am comparing them only in the sense that people are always paranoid about their "growth" when in the end it's all sensationalism and they really are only raking in a tiny percentage.[/QUOTE] This I get, yes. [QUOTE=wewt!;48195728]I'm butchering things here, but basically if Greece is going to grow an extremely nationalistic movement, it wont be by putting a group such as Golden Dawn into power, but by a far less right leaning group (that still leans right).[/QUOTE] Everyone is talking about the dangers of the far-right, let's not forget it could be far-left too. Syriza is more of a strong-left that far-left (which would be communists). Communism killed a crapton more people than nationalism ever did.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;48198965]Leaving would be a psychotic move economically. Varoufakis left because he was an active detriment to any possibility of talks because he was constantly hostile and outright called them terrorists.[/QUOTE] The Euro not only ties them into unplayable debts, unreasonably low levels of inflation and brutal, destructive austerity, but also leads to their goods being uncompetitive due to the high value of the Euro. Best to take the plunge rather than slave away with this. And although Varoufakis wasn't blameless, he at least tried to argue economically and didn't keep everything shadily behind closed doors. [editline]14th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Cmx;48199039][img]http://i.imgur.com/Sn0nzHl.gif[/img] Greece receiving their latest bailout money[/QUOTE] Yeah maybe it wouldn't be like that if the Germans weren't trying to make an example out of them and actually offered debt relief and stopped imposing harmful austerity to squeeze blood out of a stone

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48194366]But.....do you remember how the political landscape in germany during the 1918-9 was? Due to the economic meltdown, people went to the extremes of the political spectrum. Basically, the same will happen there in Greece, people who have held "traditional" values will mostly give Golden Dawn a shot and those who have voted Syriza and saw it fail, will go even more to the left.[/QUOTE] I hope you're not implying "Germany turned to Hitler after WWI" because they didn't, they rejected him on all accounts and had a half decent Republic for over a decade. What gave the Nazis their power grab was the Great Depression. Fuck, Hitler even [I]lost[/I] the [I]only[/I] election he ran for.

Well now you're just going to encourage them.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48194049]Come on with it now, that's like saying UKIP's going to take over parliament.[/QUOTE] Well, German nazi party appeared out of nowhere, was quite radical yet took over. Often at times of contempt and despair masses switch to parties which do stuff radically.

[QUOTE=headshotter;48199072]This I get, yes. Everyone is talking about the dangers of the far-right, let's not forget it could be far-left too. Syriza is more of a strong-left that far-left (which would be communists). Communism killed a crapton more people than nationalism ever did.[/QUOTE] All I'm saying is that any sort of extremist movement might not start with the most extremist party.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48201683]I hope you're not implying "Germany turned to Hitler after WWI" because they didn't, they rejected him on all accounts and had a half decent Republic for over a decade. What gave the Nazis their power grab was the Great Depression. Fuck, Hitler even [I]lost[/I] the [I]only[/I] election he ran for.[/QUOTE] He didn't lose any elections because nobody 'won' any elections until the dictatorship was established.