Austrian jihadi bride beaten to death after trying to escape ISIS
64 replies, posted
[t]https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/dfdfg.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=664&h=441&crop=1[/t]
[quote]One of the two teens who fled Austria last year to become a “poster girl” for ISIS has been beaten to death after trying to escape the group’s Syrian stronghold of Raqqa, reports say.
A Tunisian woman who had been living with Samra Kesinovic, 18, says the young girl was killed by Islamic State extremists after she tried to flee recently, according to The Local Austria.[/quote]
[url=http://nypost.com/2015/11/24/austrian-jihadi-bride-beaten-to-death-after-trying-to-escape-isis-friend/]Source[/url]
That's what'll happen when you join ISIS and realize it ain't all that's cracked up to be.
Not gonna say she deserved it at all, but I'm not surprised nor saddened by this.
I feel kinda sad a dumb kid could get involved at that and then it costs her her life.
legit wonder what was going through her mind when it started and she realized how badly she fucked up
[QUOTE=mini me;49183714]legit wonder what was going through her mind when it started and she realized how badly she fucked up[/QUOTE]
People are easily manipulated, young people especially easily.
Bad that she died but in a grim way she has gone from being ISIS recruitment "postergirl" to an anti-ISIS postergirl warning other would be Jihadis/"Jihadi Brides (sex slaves)" the magnitude and consequences of the decisions they're making.
IMO more needs to be done to stop young people (teens and 20s) from falling to the vile filth ISIS recruiters put into their impressionable minds.
I'm just wondering what the fuck was going through her head when she decided to join them. With a bit of research you should know how disgusting they are, i mean i'm pretty sure she would have been raped multiple times when she got there.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49183720]People are easily manipulated, young people especially easily.[/QUOTE]
I see this said a lot and I still don't understand it within the context of those living in the Western world. Someone in the middle east with bleak prospects and a lack of access to information or education could easily not have perceptive, but how does someone in the western world in the information age have no clue what ISIS is when ISIS themselves takes responsibility for terrorist attacks and posts videos of people being brutally killed?
Because, if someone is sold by "Yea, it'll be great, you can behead heretics just like in those videos on the internet" then they already have deep issues and I just don't see that being an "average" case.
I do agree with the rest of your post though; this is clearly an issue, and while the various western countries may not be the largest source of manpower, it still needs to be addressed.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49183871]I see this said a lot and I still don't understand it within the context of those living in the Western world. Someone in the middle east with bleak prospects and a lack of access to information or education could easily not have perceptive, but how does someone in the western world in the information age have no clue what ISIS is when ISIS themselves takes responsibility for terrorist attacks and posts videos of people being brutally killed?
Because, if someone is sold by "Yea, it'll be great, you can behead heretics just like in those videos on the internet" then they already have deep issues and I just don't see that being an "average" case.
I do agree with the rest of your post though; this is clearly an issue, and while the various western countries may not be the largest source of manpower, it still needs to be addressed.[/QUOTE]
This.
How moronic do you need to be to join ISIS as a western teen? It basically shows you have no mental capacities, no ability to think, and no self-awareness.
I tried to feel sorry for these imbeciles, but I can't. It's their own fault, they were stupid enough to do it, I honestly can't feel any empathy nor sympathy for them.
[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49183882]This.
How moronic do you need to be to join ISIS as a western teen? It basically shows you have no mental capacities, no ability to think, and no self-awareness.
I tried to feel sorry for these imbeciles, but I can't. It's their own fault, they were stupid enough to do it, I honestly can't feel any empathy nor sympathy for them.[/QUOTE]
The milgram experiment shows normal people will do awful things because an authority tells them to. If a radical cleric can establish himself as an authority (not difficult to do) then... well previously normal people do awful things.
12 year olds (and their 18 year old siblings) have been known to be suicide bombers (and soldiers, again because of authority/manipulation/power) in africa, thats one of the most destructive and self destructive things you can do. They don't do it through logic, its totally illogical, they do it because they are manipulated.
Rip, stupid bitch.
She went off to be a poster girl for joining ISIS and she ended up being a poster girl for not joining ISIS
Congratulations, you wanted to become special and now you are.
All I can do is agree with what others said above. She joined ISIS, she should have known the dangers involved. No sympathy for me.
Hopefully this serves as a lesson to other confused teens.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49183871]I see this said a lot and I still don't understand it within the context of those living in the Western world. Someone in the middle east with bleak prospects and a lack of access to information or education could easily not have perceptive, but how does someone in the western world in the information age have no clue what ISIS is when ISIS themselves takes responsibility for terrorist attacks and posts videos of people being brutally killed?
Because, if someone is sold by "Yea, it'll be great, you can behead heretics just like in those videos on the internet" then they already have deep issues and I just don't see that being an "average" case.
I do agree with the rest of your post though; this is clearly an issue, and while the various western countries may not be the largest source of manpower, it still needs to be addressed.[/QUOTE]
ISIS propagandists operate internationally, in every major language, speaking directly to children and teenagers through social media and chat rooms. They are incredibly tech savvy and have a deep understanding of the Western world. They target troubled and naive teens and, over months, personally befriend them and slowly convince them that the West is the real enemy, and that the actions of ISIS are just and necessary, and blah blah blah. This is how they have convinced over 25,000 foreign nationals leave their Western roots and come join them. They call this "hijra." It is not, in most cases, as simple as "teen sees ISIS attack in news, decides to join," it is patient, calculated, and directly targeted exploitation by ISIS recruiters.
I'm not saying that this girl, and the many others like her, didn't make a colossal mistake. I'm not saying that they weren't foolish for doing something so drastic and impulsive. I'm merely saying that these kids aren't villains undeserving of basic human empathy. They are just troubled and confused young people who got roped into some bad shit by predatory adults with a deep understanding of social psychology, the media, and technology whose sole purpose for their organization is to exploit the emotional and mental vulnerabilities of teenagers. You don't blame children or teens who get manipulated, tricked, harassed, or threatened into sex with adults-- why blame them for, essentially, being abducted? Even if they immediately realize their mistake, it is too late for them to do anything about it once they are in the hands of their captors. It is no longer a choice in any sense, even a bad one. It is abduction and slavery on the threat of death, a threat which ISIS does [I]not[/I] hesitate to follow up on.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49183902]The milgram experiment shows normal people will do awful things because an authority tells them to. If a radical cleric can establish himself as an authority (not difficult to do) then... well previously normal people do awful things.
12 year olds (and their 18 year old siblings) have been known to be suicide bombers (and soldiers, again because of authority/manipulation/power) in africa, thats one of the most destructive and self destructive things you can do. They don't do it through logic, its totally illogical, they do it because they are manipulated.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's a bit of a tight corner you're taking there.
Milgrams experiment studies how people react in direct contact with authorities, and pushing their boundaries.
It doesn't really apply to being impressionable to total bullshit.
Milgrams experiments don't give an excuse to 'falling for any old bullshit' because 'someone presented themselves as an authority'
Some people simply yearn for a more chaotic life than something with order, either due to sadism, the thrill of action or the fear of having every single day of their life turn out indifferent and simple.
Some people just happen to be or change into that kind of person, and it's a terrifying thought since most of the time it's completely impossible to change their minds, at least before it's completely too late as seen with the victim at hand.
And then there's the kind that's just naive and impulsive.
[QUOTE=Grandzeit;49184012]Some people simply yearn for a more chaotic life than something with order, either due to sadism, the thrill of action or the fear of having every single day of their life turn out indifferent and simple.
Some people just happen to be or change into that kind of person, and it's a terrifying thought since most of the time it's completely impossible to change their minds, at least before it's completely too late as seen with the victim at hand.
And then there's the kind that's just naive and impulsive.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that many (potentially even most) of the people recruited into ISIS through propaganda and the like are not told they will be expected to fight. In fact, most [I]aren't[/I] expected to fight. ISIS is trying to operate an actual state, and in many cases, they are merely led to believe that their role is to simply live in and help build that state. Like any other functioning state ISIS needs hospitals, schools, stores, families, laborers, farmers, businesspeople, etc to keep their territory running. Much of their recruitment efforts are targeted towards trying to fill the huge demographic needs in their general everyday populace. They have these holes because, [I]for some reason[/I] huge swathes of population get the hell out of dodge the moment they have the chance once ISIS starts taking root. Hence, the refugee crisis.
While you may need to be especially troubled or vulnerable to be convinced to [I]fight[/I], when the goal is simply convince you to move to their country and help them build a new state? Less so. Once you arrive, you are at their mercy. If you are a professional, such as a doctor, they may force you to work in their hospitals. If you are a young woman, they may force you to be a wife. If you are a young man, they may force you to be a fighter for them. You are a slave, not a citizen. Regardless of what they told you to get you there, it is too late for you to change your mind once you have stepped foot in their borders. For those who do realize their mistake and try to flee? They are murdered. Often en masse. Lined up and shot like animals, dumped in mass graves, beaten and raped to death, publicly executed in the most brutal ways imaginable. For the many others who may have been contemplating trying to flee or fight back, it sends a clear message.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49183993]Yeah that's a bit of a tight corner you're taking there.
Milgrams experiment studies how people react in direct contact with authorities, and pushing their boundaries.
It doesn't really apply to being impressionable to total bullshit.
Milgrams experiments don't give an excuse to 'falling for any old bullshit' because 'someone presented themselves as an authority'[/QUOTE]
You seem to want to discuss something with me again. How very exciting!
Whos to say their boundary's weren't pushed? BDA rightly said above "They target troubled and naive teens and, over months, personally befriend them and slowly convince them that the West is the real enemy, and that the actions of ISIS are just and necessary"
It's not a matter of "Oh hey I'm bagdaddy go join isis" It'll be a slow process, starting with interest or empthy to establish a personal connection then learning how to influence the person, they might get bullied at school, their family might experience racism or be poor, they might have deep rooted self esteem issues. Then slowly subvert the negitivity around that flaw to negitivty against the system/west/country as a whole. eg The system is racist, the system doesnt care about you or your family, the system lets people bully you, you aren't appreciated here in my country they would love you. Then find a time when they particularly upset or impressionable and push the boundary "don't you wish you could do something?" "don't you wish for something better". Then a little later "You can change things" "you can get a better life" "you can make a difference" "paradise awaits"
Point is that they are manipulated and the authority as an adult, cleric or whatever else they present themselves as serves to that purpose. Consider cult leaders, most members of cults are relatively normal with nothing outstandingly wrong with them ( aside from observed apparent naivety ), they get manipulated. Later on, perhaps after they do something like get raped or assist in crime they often feel trapped and realise their mistake at which point they become helpless and don't fight or they try to flee to get help and escape.
Poor girl.
I feel more sorry for her parents than her, honestly.
Can't feel sympathy for a girl that had everything and gave it up to become a sex slave. There comes a point where saying "it was just a stupid mistake" isn't enough, and this is one of them.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;49183855]I'm just wondering what the fuck was going through her head when she decided to join them. With a bit of research you should know how disgusting they are, i mean i'm pretty sure she would have been raped multiple times when she got there.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://nypost.com/2013/09/21/my-life-of-hell-in-an-afghan-harem/[/url]
Willful ignorance kills. I bet it was because she was bored.
Or depressed. At the root of fanatic is the desire to die.
[QUOTE]Later on, perhaps after they do something like get raped or assist in crime they often feel trapped and realise their mistake at which point they become helpless and don't fight or they try to flee to get help and escape.[/QUOTE]
Its designed to create guilt. Once guilt is established inside a target's brain, they become willing slaves. Guit, shame, fear, anger, or hurt or rejection are very good weaknesses for a cult leader to exploit.
[QUOTE=onebit;49184589]Or maybe it's just "we're taking over, look at what we've already done with so little, all the tweets, the propaganda, we're right next door, join us or die." No need for the individualization per target, just one guy with a facebook account and a lot of links.[/QUOTE]
Sure, people get recruited like that too, but it tends to be more effective at recruiting people who are already borderline supporters, or people living in geographically near areas who fear that not submitting to ISIS of their own accord will leave them labled as apostates marked for death. For more targeted recruitment, ISIS goes right to the source and directly communicate with people from the demographics they're looking for, often over an extended period. They talk about it in their magazine, Dabiq.
Below is an article that gives a really interesting summary of ISIS's stated goals, needs, problems, strengths, philosophies, and recruitment tactics by analyzing every issue of their propaganda magazine. It's from Cracked, but it's definitely worth a quick read. What's interesting to note is that, for all their Hatred of Europe, Israel, America, Russia, and other world powers, the majority of their magazine is devoted to propaganda against "apostate" Muslims who don't share their views. They have demonized non-radicalized Muslims, as well as radical Muslims from other terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda and the Taliban, as being [I]even worse[/I] than non-Muslims for perverting Allah's will, or somesuch.
[url]http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wants-us-to-invade-7-facts-revealed-by-their-magazine/[/url]
Wait, I think I remember the news piece of her showing up here before, as her and another friend of her joined ISIS.
What an idiot...
[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49183882]This.
How moronic do you need to be to join ISIS as a western teen? It basically shows you have no mental capacities, no ability to think, and no self-awareness.
I tried to feel sorry for these imbeciles, but I can't. It's their own fault, they were stupid enough to do it, I honestly can't feel any empathy nor sympathy for them.[/QUOTE]
I don't really agree that them not being bright like everyone else is a good enough reason not to feel any empathy for them at all, but whatever.
[QUOTE=Skerion;49187935]I don't really agree that them not being bright like everyone else is a good enough reason not to feel any empathy for them at all, but whatever.[/QUOTE]
Then you must be an extremely sentimental person with very little control over your ability to empathize. She was born into a comfortable life, the likes of which many people in the world do not ever get to enjoy, in a well-developed and civilized/stable Western nation... and then she willingly left it to travel to the Middle East and become part of ISIS as a teenage bride. This kind of stupidity goes far beyond "well you just made a mistake, that's all"; this is advanced stupidity. It's the kind that most human beings (thankfully) do not suffer from. It's a total lack of common sense and complete inability to exercise rational thought.
But whatever. I guess it really just was teenage mistake that anybody could have made. Right? We shouldn't be so critical of people who are completely incapable of making sensible choices in their lives and aren't smart enough to realize that, for example, throwing away an extremely stable and comfortable Westernized standard of living to join perhaps the most notorious terrorist organization in history composed of Islamic fundamentalists as basically nothing but a sex object is a very, very ridiculous idea.
[editline]26th November 2015[/editline]
The only response this case should elicit from anyone is "wow really?". I'm only curious to know how this just slipped by her parents. Did they pay no attention to her whatsoever or something?
[QUOTE=Govna;49188053]Then you must be an extremely sentimental person with very little control over your ability to empathize. She was born into a comfortable life, the likes of which many people in the world do not ever get to enjoy, in a well-developed and civilized/stable Western nation... and then she willingly left it to travel to the Middle East and become part of ISIS as a teenage bride. This kind of stupidity goes far beyond "well you just made a mistake, that's all"; this is advanced stupidity. It's the kind that most human beings (thankfully) do not suffer from. It's a total lack of common sense and complete inability to exercise rational thought.
But whatever. I guess it really just was teenage mistake that anybody could have made. Right? We shouldn't be so critical of people who are completely incapable of making sensible choices in their lives and aren't smart enough to realize that, for example, throwing away an extremely stable and comfortable Westernized standard of living to join perhaps the most notorious terrorist organization in history composed of Islamic fundamentalists as basically nothing but a sex object is a very, very ridiculous idea.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, so because she's dumb as fuck, that makes her absolutely despicable? Is lack of intelligence alone really going to make someone comparable to someone like Martin Shkreli and other people who are actually awful? It's shocking she's naive like that, but quite frankly, that's as far as I'm going to negatively feel about her.
Also, I don't think she's necessarily obligated to live a comfortable life. Sure, she shouldn't be joining a terrorist organization, but from the sounds of it, her just giving up that former life for anything less desirable for her regardless of the morality of her new life seems enough for you to loathe her. If you're going to justify the lack of empathy and the loathing she gets, her making her own personal choice of preferring a shittier life shouldn't be one of those justifications, imo.
And yeah, as much as I agree that her joining ISIS was a pretty terrible idea and that she shouldn't have done that, I really don't think I should be biased on who I feel sorry for.
How the fuck do you even manage to get to Syria without arousing suspicion?
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;49190240]How the fuck do you even manage to get to Syria without arousing suspicion?[/QUOTE]
Turkey
[QUOTE=download;49183707]I feel kinda sad a dumb kid could get involved at that and then it costs her her life.[/QUOTE]
Its all thanks to natural selection. I say, good riddance.
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