UK: Three-party coalition may be necessary after the election
40 replies, posted
[url]https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/24/ukip-making-british-politics-more-european/[/url]
[quote]Britain’s political system has metal fatigue. At some point it is likely to crack under the strains it now faces – most recently from Ukip in England and the SNP in Scotland. When it does, politicians from all parties will find the old ways of doing things will simply work no longer.
Just as when an aircraft’s wing snaps off, there will have been a long build-up to the moment of catastrophe. The signs have been visible for years, even decades. But until recently, most Labour and Conservative politicians thought they could carry on as normal, their duopoly protected by our first-past-the-post (FPTP) method of electing MPs.
...
Add Ukip’s rise to the Lib Dem, Scotland, Ulster and Wales factors, and there could be up to 100 MPs next May that sport neither red nor blue rosettes. That would mean Labour and the Conservatives fighting over 550 seats. To win a working majority, one of them would need at least 330. That means reducing the other to 220. I can’t see that happening.
Let’s lob in 30 Lib Dem MPs. A modest coalition majority would require either Labour or Tory to defeat the other by a margin of at least 300-250. That’s possible, but by no means certain. And if Ukip bites chunks out of Labour territory in 2020, that year’s government-building arithmetic could be even more complex.
There is, then, a real possibility that, for years to come, at least three parties will need to work together in some fashion to provide stable government. The weekend after each general election could see the SNP, Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionists, and even Ukip, helping to decide Britain’s future. And whatever specific agreement they reach, they will be steering Britain’s constitution through uncharted waters.[/quote]
In other news, Nick Clegg has [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30175628]revealed[/url] he would be willing to form a coalition with UKIP, saying "I will never sit around a Cabinet table with Nigel Farage, that's for sure"
First Past The Post Fails v2: UKIP Boogaloo
Great. Political coalitions are good. Less retarded one-track bullshit.
[QUOTE=Riller;46563709]Great. Political coalitions are good. Less retarded one-track bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Yes the current coalition had so much Lib Dem input.
It's a very real possibility, but I'd question the effectiveness of a three party coalition. We've already seen over this government's term the friction between parties, notably with the disagreement over University tuition fees and the redrawing of constituency boundaries. The Lib Dems have been little more than an irritant to the Tories in the current government. The ideological disparities between the parties, and the competitiveness of the Cabinet makes me wonder if a three party coalition would get anything done in a cohesive manner - you'll have different government departments dominated by different parties, which should make some interesting viewing to see the conflict between the big spending departments. Who knows, maybe we'll get a coalition with similar political leanings and they'll be able to compromise on some issues. It'll make for an interesting election, that's one guarantee.
[QUOTE=ijyt;46563740]Yes the current coalition had so much Lib Dem input.[/QUOTE]
Cleggers did at least save us from the bill that would have allowed police to access anyone's internet history at will. That would be law right now if he hadn't vetoed it
I'd rather see a party majority without a need for a coalition, so much coalition in-fighting and shit flinging with the added tasty backbench rebellions.
[QUOTE=CMB Unit 01;46563752]It's a very real possibility, but I'd question the effectiveness of a three party coalition. We've already seen over this government's term the friction between parties, notably with the disagreement over University tuition fees and the redrawing of constituency boundaries. The Lib Dems have been little more than an irritant to the Tories in the current government. The ideological disparities between the parties, and the competitiveness of the Cabinet makes me wonder if a three party coalition would get anything done in a cohesive manner - you'll have different government departments dominated by different parties, which should make some interesting viewing to see the conflict between the big spending departments. Who knows, maybe we'll get a coalition with similar political leanings and they'll be able to compromise on some issues. It'll make for an interesting election, that's one guarantee.[/QUOTE]
It could be a real realigning election as well - the coalition deal that comes out of it may have a big influence on the party system of the future
So as an American, from what I understand there's 3 big parties: Conservatives (Tories), Liberal Democrats (Lib dems), and the Labor party. Lib Dems and Labor are both left and had a coalition. Until a few years ago, Labor ruled since the 1990s. There was another party (BNP), but they're Nazis and not seriously important.
Then some shit happened. Some EU Deal where the UK agreed to take in a certain amount of immigrants or change their policy. Germany was also supposed to do this but for some reason they didn't. Now a bunch of people from a far-right party which wants to privatize NHS among other things (UKIP) is all pissy about how there are a ton more immigrants coming in than expected, and are talking all about leaving the EU.
Also UKIP sounds like republicans
I reckon it'll be the SNP, not UKIP that'll be the real kingmakers this election, which would steer whoever's in a coalition with them to the left. Personally that's something I'm happy with, but that's most definitely not a universal sentiment, especially south of the border.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46563837]So as an American, from what I understand there's 3 big parties: Conservatives (Tories), Liberal Democrats (Lib dems), and the Labor party. Lib Dems and Labor are both left and had a coalition. Until a few years ago, Labor ruled since the 1990s. There was another party (BNP), but they're Nazis and not seriously important.
Then some shit happened. Some EU Deal where the UK agreed to take in a certain amount of immigrants or change their policy. Germany was also supposed to do this but for some reason they didn't. Now a bunch of people from a far-right party which wants to privatize NHS among other things (UKIP) is all pissy about how there are a ton more immigrants coming in than expected, and are talking all about leaving the EU.
Also UKIP sounds like republicans[/QUOTE]
UKIP is just as barmy as the Republicans, and just as bafflingly popular. But honestly, you seem to have a fairly good grasp of things- though nowadays, Labour is more centre than anything, and the Lib Dems are practically a non-party because people perceive Nick Clegg as supremely weak due to not being able to stop the Tories doing what the Tories do.
ukip wont win shit
bloody hell they better not win shit I'd rather not have a bunch of racists and euro-haters in any sort of power
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46563865]UKIP is just as barmy as the Republicans, and just as bafflingly popular. But honestly, you seem to have a fairly good grasp of things- though nowadays, Labour is more centre than anything, and the Lib Dems are practically a non-party because people perceive Nick Clegg as supremely weak due to not being able to stop the Tories doing what the Tories do.[/QUOTE]
So this article is saying the 3 big parties have been flanked on the immigration issue by UKIP and now need to get their shit together, put aside other differences, and beat UKIP on this issue, or else UKIP will have more power to change things that ought not be changed (Like NHS)
[QUOTE=Camundongo;46563843]I reckon it'll be the SNP, not UKIP that'll be the real kingmakers this election, which would steer whoever's in a coalition with them to the left. Personally that's something I'm happy with, but that's most definitely not a universal sentiment, especially south of the border.[/QUOTE]
SNP popularity has fucking skyrocketed in Scotland. I went to that big gathering at the SSE Hydro on Saturday, the one with Nicola Sturgeon and all that, and the atmosphere and everything was just incredible, you wouldn't have thought politicians could fill an entire arena.
SNP has over 92k members as of Saturday, I never thought they'd end up doing so well on the back of a no vote.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46563899]So this article is saying the 3 big parties have been flanked on the immigration issue by UKIP and now need to get their shit together, put aside other differences, and beat UKIP on this issue, or else UKIP will have more power to change things that ought not be changed (Like NHS)[/QUOTE]
Essentially, the British public have their mind made up on immigrants; that is to say, that they (all the non-white ones, of course) are the source of all this country's woes... for some reason, despite ours being one of the strictest immigration processes in the world and by far the strictest in the EU due to us having absolute borders all around the island. The left-wing parties are stuck because to agree with UKIP would be to totally go against everything they stand for, and the other right-wing parties don't want to just be called copycats. The media has twisted everything and at this rate, immigration and the EU alone will be the only things this election is fought over.
I really hate how much media coverage ukip has gotten. Making them out to be far more of a threat than they should ever be allowed to be
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46563837]So as an American, from what I understand there's 3 big parties: Conservatives (Tories), Liberal Democrats (Lib dems), and the Labor party. Lib Dems and Labor are both left and had a coalition. Until a few years ago, Labor ruled since the 1990s. There was another party (BNP), but they're Nazis and not seriously important.
Then some shit happened. Some EU Deal where the UK agreed to take in a certain amount of immigrants or change their policy. Germany was also supposed to do this but for some reason they didn't. Now a bunch of people from a far-right party which wants to privatize NHS among other things (UKIP) is all pissy about how there are a ton more immigrants coming in than expected, and are talking all about leaving the EU.
Also UKIP sounds like republicans[/QUOTE]
Nope, the Conservatives are shitbirds, Labour are the new Tory lite party, the Lib Dems have been eviscerated, the BNP are completely irrelevant and yeah UKIP are the republicans.
There's also the SNP which are set to become a major force in UK wide politics since their membership has quadrupled at least since the referendum and is still climbing rapidly in membership.
Also it was the Conservatives + Lib Dems that made a coalition (for some reason) and the Lib Dems effectively done nothing.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46563837]So as an American, from what I understand there's 3 big parties: Conservatives (Tories), Liberal Democrats (Lib dems), and the Labor party. Lib Dems and Labor are both left and had a coalition. Until a few years ago, Labor ruled since the 1990s. There was another party (BNP), but they're Nazis and not seriously important.
Then some shit happened. Some EU Deal where the UK agreed to take in a certain amount of immigrants or change their policy. Germany was also supposed to do this but for some reason they didn't. Now a bunch of people from a far-right party which wants to privatize NHS among other things (UKIP) is all pissy about how there are a ton more immigrants coming in than expected, and are talking all about leaving the EU.
Also UKIP sounds like republicans[/QUOTE]
Also the Green Party is started to rise in support lately and is threatening to overtake the Lib Dems, while Labour looks set to lose almost all of its traditionally safe Scottish seats to the SNP. Meanwhile UKIP has turned safe Conservative seats into fierce battlegrounds. Basically the entire party system that we've been used to for decades may be coming to an end
[QUOTE=Marzipas;46563906]SNP popularity has fucking skyrocketed in Scotland. I went to that big gathering at the SSE Hydro on Saturday, the one with Nicola Sturgeon and all that, and the atmosphere and everything was just incredible, you wouldn't have thought politicians could fill an entire arena.
SNP has over 92k members as of Saturday, I never thought they'd end up doing so well on the back of a no vote.[/QUOTE]
The Hydro was packed as well, 12,000 people and I'm pretty sure during her speech membership climbed by 2,000 people.
[QUOTE=bravehat;46564047]The Hydro was packed as well, 12,000 people and I'm pretty sure during her speech membership climbed by 2,000 people.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they read out 90k at the start of it, and by the end of it it was 92k. They are now the third biggest party in the whole UK, its pretty incredible.
I'm still really hoping for Labor to get back in, they might not be good but at least they don't wanna privatize the NHS and cut pay for really important stuff. We've got inflation happening and wages haven't raised with it, Labor in the past has been reasonably good on managing this type of thing while the Conservatives just royally fuck it all up.
If UKIP gets a strong grasp then jesus fuck you can say good bye to this country quickly.
[QUOTE=rhx123;46563704]First Past The Post Fails v2: UKIP Boogaloo[/QUOTE]
Still better than the AV system. Nobody wins of that were in.
I may not be a fan of any of the parties currently, but I'm certainly enjoying the shake-up.
[QUOTE=rhx123;46564180]I may not be a fan of any of the parties currently, but I'm certainly enjoying the shake-up.[/QUOTE]
We really needed it. I think a good few of the Labour and Tories are getting it, but the main party line is still "LOL NO EVERYTHING IS FINE".
I would love a Labour-Libdem-Conservative coalition.
Just to see how it would work on a day to day basis.
[QUOTE=Deng;46564716]I would love a Labour-Libdem-Conservative coalition.
Just to see how it would work on a day to day basis.[/QUOTE]
A Labour-SNP-Greens coalition would be best imo.
[QUOTE=LiamBrown;46564750]A Labour-SNP-Greens coalition would be best imo.[/QUOTE]
That's even less likely than the one I suggested.
[QUOTE=Deng;46564772]That's even less likely than the one I suggested.[/QUOTE]
It's really not.
[QUOTE=LiamBrown;46564786]It's really not.[/QUOTE]
Labour and SNP won't be working together now I think given recent events.
Greens are a fringe party that won't be big enough to get into coalition.
[QUOTE=Deng;46564896]Labour and SNP won't be working together now I think given recent events.
Greens are a fringe party that won't be big enough to get into coalition.[/QUOTE]
People said LibDems would never go with Conservatives.
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