40,000 square miles and 30 million dead. The scale of Eastern front was insane.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Seelow_Heights[/url]
Judging from the trailer this film is gonna show both sides. Hopefully it gets an english subtitle.
Who made this? It doesn't feel like it was professionally made, as the music, sound design, actors and camerawork seem a bit amateur, yet the set, effects, props and vehicles are top notch.
Yeah doing some research it's an Estonian film about Estonians who were forced to pick sides; there's no real protagonist.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48265696]Yeah doing some research it's an Estonian film about Estonians who were forced to pick sides; there's no real protagonist.[/QUOTE]
Poor guys. Choosing between Stalin and Hitler... well I guess not choosing.
[QUOTE=The Vman;48265646]Who made this? It doesn't feel like it was professionally made, as the music, sound design, actors and camerawork seem a bit amateur, yet the set, effects, props and vehicles are top notch.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, like the tank is an real T-34 that moves on its own & the set is in the central training area for the Estonian Defence Forces. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZk6iVPEtck[/media]
Other info is here: [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3213684/[/url]
Do yourself a favour, dont read the youtube comments.
Some Estonians I know consider the Estonian Waffen SS heroes because of their intense hate for the soviet union
Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48267306]Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did[/QUOTE]
The Thin Red Line?
There's loads of movie's out there
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48267190]Some Estonians I know consider the Estonian Waffen SS heroes because of their intense hate for the soviet union[/QUOTE]
Thats because the 20th SS was volunteers and conscripts joining the battle out of spite of the bombings of Tallinn and to defend Estonia from a Russian invasion. The goverment tried reaching out to multiple other allied nations to stop them annexing Estonia upon invasion. Russians themselves did a big number on Estonia. The 1944 bombings of Tallinn and other atrocities like sinking civilian ships full of refugees escaping to west europe and the northen states like sweden and finland. After the war the 20th ss soldiers were at the Trials as guards and were decleared innocent because they did not join the german army out of some political motivation or agenda.0 they only joined to defend Estonia.
[editline]22nd July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48267306]Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did[/QUOTE]
Watch the 1993 Stalingrad movie made by germany. Its the best ww2 film i have personally seen. And one of my alltime favorites.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48267306]Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did[/QUOTE]
'71 and Apocalypse Now come to mind.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48267190]Some Estonians I know consider the Estonian Waffen SS heroes because of their intense hate for the soviet union[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing, the Waffen SS was made up of 39 divisions through WW2 and as hard is it is for people to believe, [B]some[/B] of those divisions were in-actuality no worse than divisions of any other army, they were the exception to the rule however.
This movie, somehow, premièred in [b]Berlin.[/b]
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;48270492]This movie, somehow, premièred in [b]Berlin.[/b][/QUOTE]
Germany is slightly starting to get used to it now, theres been some good german dramas coming out these past few years that tell the tale of german soldiers, as well as the general public during that time
One I'd especially like to note is Our Mothers Our Fathers
[video=youtube;QkA-VcHzCxI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkA-VcHzCxI[/video]
Those T-34's don't even have fake MG's put on them, you can see the hole right where it's supposed to be.
Also, that representation of Red Army as a flow of dudes with Mosins (In 1944!) without any sort of tactics of strategy.
[QUOTE=gufu;48270556]
Also, that representation of Red Army as a flow of dudes with Mosins (In 1944!) without any sort of tactics of strategy.[/QUOTE]
While looks strange, that actually happened a lot at that battle, sadly. Mosin Nagants were still pretty common, and the battle itself - well, it pretty quickly degenerated to almost exactly that. Just bloodbath with commanders and generals saying "fuck it, overwhelm them, we have a race for Berlin to win". Stalin demanded results, and when Stalin demands something, well, you better do that, you've got a family back home. As a result, it was artillery bombardment - and then charge. Not really "human wave" like it's often shown, but might as well have been that, the results would've been the same.
[QUOTE=gufu;48270556]Those T-34's don't even have fake MG's put on them, you can see the hole right where it's supposed to be.
Also, that representation of Red Army as a flow of dudes with Mosins (In 1944!) without any sort of tactics of strategy.[/QUOTE]
There were a couple Papasha gunners too, some DPs, and plenty of tanks. I rather like the variety of weaponry on display with the Axis troops, always nice to see them properly portray their use of captured hardware, although I did notice one sequence where a man handed off an MP-40 but the next shot it turned into an StG-44.
[QUOTE=gufu;48270556]Those T-34's don't even have fake MG's put on them, you can see the hole right where it's supposed to be.
Also, that representation of Red Army as a flow of dudes with Mosins (In 1944!) without any sort of tactics of strategy.[/QUOTE]
Well when you have no other way around a heavily fortified position, you pretty much don't have much of an option but to take it head-on.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48267306]Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img7.gram.pl/20080610101930.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48267306]Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did[/QUOTE]
Come and See, well, comes to mind
[editline]22nd July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=DrugUnit;48267593]
Watch the 1993 Stalingrad movie made by germany. Its the best ww2 film i have personally seen. And one of my alltime favorites.[/QUOTE]
Where can you find this, btw?
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;48271309]Well when you have no other way around a heavily fortified position, you pretty much don't have much of an option but to take it head-on.[/QUOTE]
Could still use the tanks like Soviets actually did, and use them as battering rams/moving cover.
A Soviet assault on a fortified position "done right" in the 1944-45 period would have involved small task-organized assault groups with heavy engineer and firepower support, with maneuver being a matter of moving against weak spots rather than hurling bodies against the enemy's guns. Perhaps this was depicting a particularly low-tier Soviet unit?
[QUOTE=Tac Error;48272986]A Soviet assault on a fortified position "done right" in the 1944-45 period would have involved small task-organized assault groups with heavy engineer and firepower support, with maneuver being a matter of moving against weak spots rather than hurling bodies against the enemy's guns. Perhaps this was depicting a particularly low-tier Soviet unit?[/QUOTE]
Kinda a shame that every movie with a Soviet scene likes to copy Enemy at the Gates. Good scene for trying to give the audience an idea of the insanity of the whole thing but seriously.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;48272986]A Soviet assault on a fortified position "done right" in the 1944-45 period would have involved small task-organized assault groups with heavy engineer and firepower support, with maneuver being a matter of moving against weak spots rather than hurling bodies against the enemy's guns. Perhaps this was depicting a particularly low-tier Soviet unit?[/QUOTE]
Most likely, cause how else can this happen? The German force of 22,250 men held off 136,830 Soviet troops. As the Soviet forces were constantly reinforced, the casualties of the battle were 150,000–200,000 dead and wounded Soviet troops and 157–164 tanks.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tannenberg_Line[/url]
[QUOTE=Tac Error;48272986]A Soviet assault on a fortified position "done right" in the 1944-45 period would have involved small task-organized assault groups with heavy engineer and firepower support, with maneuver being a matter of moving against weak spots rather than hurling bodies against the enemy's guns. Perhaps this was depicting a particularly low-tier Soviet unit?[/QUOTE]
That's true for most battles that have taken place from late 1943 to 1945, but not every single one. Proper assaults require a lot of time and proper reconnaissance, and that's a luxury spearhead of the front couldn't afford. The closer the Red Army was getting to Berlin, the less "conserving" of manpower the tactics got, culminating in an abysmal and borderline incompetent battle for Berlin.
[QUOTE=gudman;48273577]That's true for most battles that have taken place from late 1943 to 1945, but not every single one. Proper assaults require a lot of time and proper reconnaissance, and that's a luxury spearhead of the front couldn't afford. The closer the Red Army was getting to Berlin, the less "conserving" of manpower the tactics got, culminating in an abysmal and borderline incompetent battle for Berlin.[/QUOTE]
It's sorta terrible to think how many people have pointlessly died this way, weeks if not days before the war was over. My grandgrandfather died a few days before the storm of Berlin even begun, and my grandfather never found out where he died, in his life. Only a few months after my grandfather's death have there finally been any identification of his body, just a few years ago.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48272015]Come and See, well, comes to mind
[editline]22nd July 2015[/editline]
The usual places. Cant say more due to ding dong bannu.
Where can you find this, btw?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gudman;48273577]That's true for most battles that have taken place from late 1943 to 1945, but not every single one.[/quote]
Certainly in the context of the engagement the film is depicting.
[quote][B]Proper assaults require a lot of time and proper reconnaissance, and that's a luxury spearhead of the front couldn't afford.[/B] The closer the Red Army was getting to Berlin, the less "conserving" of manpower the tactics got, culminating in an abysmal and borderline incompetent battle for Berlin.[/QUOTE]
Which front? The Leningrad Front (Army Group) that participated in this battle? The Estonian offensives are "forgotten battles" in Soviet/Russian historiography (as noted by David Glantz in a 2001 survey essay), so IMHO more historical research is needed before we can make definite judgements.
What I'll say next and below is a tangent, but to fronts in general, successful Soviet offensives, like the Visla-Oder Operation in early 1945 had the spearheads taking time and proper reconnaissance which made the initial breakthroughs very succesful (for example, Konev's 1st Ukrainian Front did an artillery preparation that heavily battered the opposing 4th Panzer Army and tore open gaps for the Front's tank-heavy forces to enter the enemy's rear, all in a single day).
As for Berlin, one could certainly see it as a needlessly bloody and incompetent battle dictated by Stalin/poor leadership/mismanagement, etc. But another explanation would also be the fact that the terrain in and surrounding Berlin was much more urbanized and wooded than the plains of Poland or Ukraine. Thus Soviet forces (especially Zhukov’s 1st Belorussian Front) were not adapted to fighting in that terrain and paid the price in casualties. Though as a silver lining, the lessons fighting in the rough German terrain formed the basis of the Soviet Army's first postwar formation reorganization when they turned their tank-heavy forces into more balanced mechanized ones.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48267306]Still haven't seen a good war flick that captures the grittyness and savagery as well as Saving Private Ryan did[/QUOTE]
Downfall and Letters from Iwo Jima/Flags of our Fathers
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
