Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
33 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/does-traditional-college-debate-reinforce-white-privilege/360746/"]Minority participants aren't just debating resolutions—they're challenging the terms of the debate itself. [/URL]
[quote]It used to be that if you went to a college-level debate tournament, the students you’d see would be bookish future lawyers from elite universities, most of them white. In matching navy blazers, they’d recite academic arguments for and against various government policies. It was tame, predictable, and, frankly, boring.
No more.
[...]
On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.
In the final round, Ruffin and Johnson squared off against Rashid Campbell and George Lee from the University of Oklahoma, two highly accomplished African-American debaters with distinctive dreadlocks and dashikis. [B]Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like “nigga authenticity” and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. [/B]At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “Fuck the time!” he yelled. His partner Campbell, who won the top speaker award at the National Debate Tournament two weeks later, had been unfairly targeted by the police at the debate venue just days before, and cited this personal trauma as evidence for his case against the government’s treatment of poor African-Americans.[/quote]
Sounds funky.
Debate is boring because it's an entirely different ball game than rap or slam competitions. There are slam poetry and rap competitions where it would be as inappropriate to simply debate during as it would be to rap at a debate.
That being said it's very fucked up that because they got harassed for trying to start their own debate league. If they are so bothered by them trying to change the rules of how they debate I don't understand why'd they'd just stop them from starting a league of their own.
I watched a video of a 'debate' like this, and to be honest I couldn't follow half of what was being said because of how fast they were talking:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWY1Ai9wsqs[/media]
Skip to 10:35 for some of it.
So what I gathered is that you can win an unrelated debate by talking about how privileged others are and how oppressed you are.
sounds really funky like..what is this going to accomplish
i hope no one spouts of about tumblr at this im sick of that already, like damn its not even funny anymore
Former public forum and policy debater here.
Partner ran an onion article about affirmative action and salary once and the judge and opposition didn't notice the source or didn't know the legitimacy of the onion.
We won that round.
[QUOTE=capital;44582401]So what I gathered is that you can win an unrelated debate by talking about how privilege and how oppressed you are.[/QUOTE]
From what I've seen American debate groups like this follow the political "If I can say something baffling enough that my opponent can't respond I win" mindset, rather than the scientific one where you use facts and statistics to support your argument.
I found the article hard to follow so wait are they saying the rules of debate somehow only work with white people, because that doesn't make sense, I'm pretty sure black people are capable of getting their point across without having to rap or break the time limit
Again I apologise if I've missed the point
I can't even comprehend or bare to listen to this debate...grab your 'Hooked on Ebonics' and saddle up kiddos!
Wow what a misleading thread title.
[editline]18th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ZenZill;44582636]I can't even comprehend or bare to listen to this debate...grab your 'Hooked on Ebonics' and saddle up kiddos![/QUOTE]
Wow what a racist post.
[QUOTE=ZenZill;44582636]I can't even comprehend or bare to listen to this debate...grab your 'Hooked on Ebonics' and saddle up kiddos![/QUOTE]
example one of how to NOT do satire
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44582446]American debate groups like this follow the political "If I can say something baffling enough that my opponent can't respond I win" mindset, rather than the scientific one where you use facts and statistics to support your argument.[/QUOTE]
Reminds of actual political debates that air on television.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44582867]Reminds of actual political debates that air on television.[/QUOTE]
What about intelligence squared, they used to operate only in London but now they make live debates in US 2, it's pretty good.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44582446]From what I've seen American debate groups like this follow the political "If I can say something baffling enough that my opponent can't respond I win" mindset, rather than the scientific one where you use facts and statistics to support your argument.[/QUOTE]
I once won a policy debate on prostitution by arguing that it supported our troops.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44583003]I once won a policy debate on prostitution by arguing that it supported our troops.[/QUOTE]
Canadian troops? :v: seems like a more american suited joke argument if you ask me
[QUOTE=ZenZill;44582636]I can't even comprehend or bare to listen to this debate...grab your 'Hooked on Ebonics' and saddle up kiddos![/QUOTE]
I wasn't even talking about his accent, I'm just saying the sound in the room is terrible and he's talking too fast.
[QUOTE=Megafan;44583379]I wasn't even talking about his accent, I'm just saying the sound in the room is terrible and he's talking too fast.[/QUOTE]
thats basically what you have to do in policy or lincoln douglass debates in order to fit all your evidence and arguments in due to the restrictions. It seems crazy but when you actually practice your speech you learn how to do it. I've been in HS debate since freshman year and won the championship with at first an all white team and by senior year we had african kids indians and pakistanis on my team too. Saying debate is a white man's sport is just ridiculous.
[editline]18th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=blacksam;44582423]Former public forum and policy debater here.
Partner ran an onion article about affirmative action and salary once and the judge and opposition didn't notice the source or didn't know the legitimacy of the onion.
We won that round.[/QUOTE]
my plan that won the championship was a cuban space program, and the only reason we rocked it was that they had no evidence. Sweet victory
[QUOTE=Megafan;44582324]I watched a video of a 'debate' like this, and to be honest I couldn't follow half of what was being said because of how fast they were talking:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWY1Ai9wsqs[/media]
Skip to 10:35 for some of it.[/QUOTE]
I think managed to pick out the following words.
Wrong, oppression, judicator, office suit, rap bro, and gay vs straight.
Is this what passes for a debate?
Is this satire?
there's a very, very good reason that debates have rules
a debate without rules can have no judge and by extension no winner
[QUOTE=BLUcody;44582845]example one of how to NOT do satire[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, that post is nowhere close to even trying to be satirical
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44582446]From what I've seen American debate groups like this follow the political "If I can say something baffling enough that my opponent can't respond I win" mindset, rather than the scientific one where you use facts and statistics to support your argument.[/QUOTE]
To paraphrase a line from "Thank You For Smoking" - "It doesn't matter if I'm wrong so long as you're not right"
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44582446]From what I've seen American debate groups like this follow the political "If I can say something baffling enough that my opponent can't respond I win" mindset, rather than the scientific one where you use facts and statistics to support your argument.[/QUOTE]
depends on the organization and the event.
two of the more prominent ones (national forensic league and national catholic forensic league) have specific rules and criterion for judging - it mostly just depends on how competent the judge is.
i do congressional debate, and a lot of it has to do with style and refutation, but a lot of judges will give you lower scores if you don't incorporate some kind of evidence (or otherwise a very strong logical chain of events).
[QUOTE=Megafan;44582324]I watched a video of a 'debate' like this, and to be honest I couldn't follow half of what was being said because of how fast they were talking:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWY1Ai9wsqs[/media]
Skip to 10:35 for some of it.[/QUOTE]
High School debate captain here, heading into the collegiate circuit soon.
That appears to be a policy debate round - when you have a 20+ page case to get through in 8 minutes, you don't have time to talk normally.
Policy debate is also a joke, in my opinion. But that might be because Utah's Policy program is reeeaaaallly fucked up and no decent Debate coach gives it any time of the day.
There's also the argument that liberal (kant style) logic is anti-wonan and is pro western
[editline]19th April 2014[/editline]
There's also the argument that liberal (kant style) logic is anti-woman and is pro western
Enforcing a status quo of a system protects the privilege of whoever is privileged in that system. If you keep doing things the same way, such as debating, of course it's to the benefit of those who are good at it and brought up in it. If those people are white, then yeah it reinforces white privilege.
Look at men's soccer. Around the world this is a popular sport and the best athletes from those countries play it, that's why those teams are so good. In the US the sports system sends top athletes into other sports so the US soccer teams are inferior [i]even though the US produces amazing athletes[/i]. The system reinforces the superiority(privilege) of non US teams.
The problem is that the only way to fix this is to change the system so that it doesn't favor the privileged. The irony is that the privileged will protest this, on the basis that it gives privilege to others!
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44589774]Enforcing a status quo of a system protects the privilege of whoever is privileged in that system. If you keep doing things the same way, such as debating, of course it's to the benefit of those who are good at it and brought up in it. If those people are white, then yeah it reinforces white privilege.
Look at men's soccer. Around the world this is a popular sport and the best athletes from those countries play it, that's why those teams are so good. In the US the sports system sends top athletes into other sports so the US soccer teams are inferior [i]even though the US produces amazing athletes[/i]. The system reinforces the superiority(privilege) of non US teams.
The problem is that the only way to fix this is to change the system so that it doesn't favor the privileged. The irony is that the privileged will protest this, on the basis that it gives privilege to others![/QUOTE]
That is a bad analogy. So we should make rules to bring down every other nations best soccer players down to USA level?
What is next? Bring down the physical requirements in any job to hire more women? Just so that men lose their privilege because of their stronger bodies?
Saying that college debates are reinforcing white privilege is discrimination against non white people. Because it literally means that non white people can never be as good as white people in college debating. And I highly disagree with that.
Maybe the problem lies somewhere else. Non white people have lower requirements to be able to go to college. Such lower quality of students leads to lower performance eventually. And one of these results is a lower capability in college debating. You wanna fix the problem? Have equal requirements no matter the color of the skin.
CEDA is quite weird, this is a previous championship:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMo7VHeoadQ[/media]
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44589774]Enforcing a status quo of a system protects the privilege of whoever is privileged in that system. If you keep doing things the same way, such as debating, of course it's to the benefit of those who are good at it and brought up in it. If those people are white, then yeah it reinforces white privilege.[/QUOTE]
How exactly should debating be changed to this end, yet still adhere to basic principles such as the soundness, coherence, of arguments, and provide sufficient reasoning and evidence to support the positions as well?
In these videos they are screaming or barely coherent, use weasel words and frequently stop midsentence to go on a completely different tangent, and or end up rapping. What sort of debate is that?
[QUOTE=bunguer;44590256]CEDA is quite weird, this is a previous championship:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMo7VHeoadQ[/media][/QUOTE]
27:30 is amazing holy shit
[editline]19th April 2014[/editline]
Nevermind, all of those speakers are amazing
Nigga Authenticity sounds like the title of an album.
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