[QUOTE]Today I had an interesting encounter with a young Syrians. I stood at the supermarket checkout, when he tried to ask the cashier for details of the offered by discounters phone card. But the did not understand English, so I helped out. I came up with the young man from this week. A good opportunity to experience times of an interested party, what were his motives for going and why he has chosen Germany.
Below I give dialogue from memory again:
"Where are you from? How long are you here?"
"Syria. I spent a year in Giessen, am here now with friends, looking for an apartment."
"Your application for asylum has been so recognized?"
"Yes, I therefore had within four weeks from the camp and looking for something to me. It's hard."
"How old are you? Where is your family?"
"My mother lives in America, my father is long dead. My sister lives in Syria."
"Are you escaped with your mother? Why is your sister not come?"
"No, I'm not fled. None of us has to flee. The Assad regime is indeed cruel and unjust, but you can live in Syria, if you do not mess with him."
"And the IS?"
"I come from Damascus, like most, I've met in the camp. There is no IS, which is in other regions, for example, towards Iraq."
"Are you saying that most Syrians do not flee from war and persecution?"
"Yes. My friends and I went because we wanted to not only army. And because it is in Europe just easier to get a good job and to earn money."
"And why now come so many? Is the Assad regime has become worse?"
"No. He's already a few years in power. He is cruel and can kill regime opponents, but my family and I did not affected. Not even my friends."
"Why now?"
"In the summer we have seen on the internet that Germany people studied who want to live there. We were invited by you to come here. And it was said that the state would take care of us and we would find a working. But I can not find any. "
"Where were you when did you made on the way?"
"In Turkey. I have lived there for some time, after my mother had emigrated to relatives in the United States. But I have not get a visa for the United States, even though my mother has a green card there."
"And you were there fled because of the war in Syria?"
"No (laughs). I'm here with friends back because we thought we find work. In Turkey there but we did not like."
"And the bombs? And the war?"
"That was part of our lives, why is no one I know, gone from Syria."
"How long did it take you here for your way of Turkey?"
"Approximately two weeks. I wanted to go to Germany because there also each allowed to stay, not like in other countries that send away one again."
"Is your story typical of the people who go away from Syria?"
"I think most go for the same reason as me. All men of my age, who want to just live better elsewhere. On the boat crossing to Greece a woman sitting with a child on board. This was something special for us. But none she has touched, because one of the men who paid attention. In casting I met some families, but who came from Damascus and how I came to Germany, because you can live better. "
A chance encounter, perhaps not representative. Nevertheless interesting insights firsthand.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.de/ramin-peymani/syrer-fluechtling-supermarkt_b_8689306.html[/url]
It's Google translate, sorry.
(Typo in the headline)
Immigrant, not a refugee
[QUOTE=Xephio;49300572]Immigrant, not a refugee[/QUOTE]
I'm being a bit sarcastic.
-snip- nvm
Interesting read, although honestly living in an oppressive regime and wanting to find a better life in a more fair society is a totally justified reason, regardless if your life is at stake or not.
[QUOTE=Megadave;49300589]what[/QUOTE]
He means military service. Syria has a conscription based army.
[QUOTE=Megadave;49300589]-snip- nvm[/QUOTE]
"We didn't want to join the army"
I wouldn't want to join Assad's army either, to be perfectly honest.
It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300655]It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.[/QUOTE]
Have you not seen what happened in syria? All the horrible attacks on their own population. In this era, you cant grab a bunch of muskets to go overthrow a government, its much harder than that now
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300655]It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.[/QUOTE]
What? Really? You want them to fight for someone who murders his own people with chemical weapons and shat on his own people for years or fight for IS? That's fucking insane. They are smart to flee, I'll do the same and so would probably everyone on this site. Fuck Assad and fuck IS.
The rest are either Kurds or many different kinds of rebel organizations with various agendas, none of which have any hope in hell of winning.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300655]It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.[/QUOTE]
Germans back in the late 1930's in response to prosecution on Jews: It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.
Americans during the Vietnamese war: It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300655]It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, like the Cambodians and shit, what was with them fleeing into Myanmar and Vietnam? They should have just fixed their country themselves!
[QUOTE=Tobylol;49300598]Interesting read, although honestly living in an oppressive regime and wanting to find a better life in a more fair society is a totally justified reason, regardless if your life is at stake or not.[/QUOTE]
No that's a terrible reason. There are over 20 million people in Syria.
[QUOTE=da space core;49300751]Have you not seen what happened in syria? All the horrible attacks on their own population. In this era, you cant grab a bunch of muskets to go overthrow a government, its much harder than that now[/QUOTE]
Of course there will be casualties, lots and lots of casualties. The question is: are they willing to sacrifice their life for the greater good?
And before anyone asks, then yes, I am. I'm trained in warfare, since my country also has a conscription based army and I'm also a member of the defense league, from where i have asked for a permission to keep an assault rifle in my home. Which I do. You wouldn't see a massive influx of military aged men into Western Europe in case of a conflict in here. Such mindset is clearly lacking in Western Europe.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300819]Of course there will be casualties, lots and lots of casualties. The question is: are they willing to sacrifice their life for the greater good?
And before anyone asks, then yes, I am. I'm trained in warfare, since my country also has a conscription based army and I'm also a member of the defense league, from where i have asked for a permission to keep an assault rifle in my home. Which I do. You wouldn't see a massive influx of military aged men into Western Europe in case of a conflict in here. Such mindset is clearly lacking in Western Europe.[/QUOTE]
I dunno man, I would not want to give my life for a state, even more so when it is a state that has used chemicals on people. That shit is for idiots who have a death wish.
I don't blame them for wanting to flee if they would have been conscripted. I would do the same. However I do not like how they seemed to think that they would be able to find alot of work in Europe.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300819]Of course there will be casualties, lots and lots of casualties. The question is: are they willing to sacrifice their life for the greater good?
And before anyone asks, then yes, I am. I'm trained in warfare, since my country also has a conscription based army and I'm also a member of the defense league, from where i have asked for a permission to keep an assault rifle in my home. Which I do. You wouldn't see a massive influx of military aged men into Western Europe in case of a conflict in here. Such mindset is clearly lacking in Western Europe.[/QUOTE]
Probably because you don't have death cults invading your country which is ruled by a dictator with zero regard for his people's lives. Also French people left France in droves during WWII, guess they were total cowards who didn't want to sacrifice themselves for the "greater good".
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300819]Of course there will be casualties, lots and lots of casualties. The question is: are they willing to sacrifice their life for the greater good?[/QUOTE]
Maybe they don't have the idea that they can just throw their lives away? What "Greater Good" do they see?
Taking out the Assad government leaves a vacuum for Al-Nusra, ISIS, Hezbollah and other extremist groups as well as a possible lead to another dictatorial/corrupt regime.
They can't just up and say "we're going to fight Assad now!". They tried that 4 years ago, and look where that got them.
It's safe to say that most people, especially those living in a destitute situation, are not keen on rising up all of a sudden against a government that regularly cluster bombs or gasses civilian populations to make a point.
You don't have to think about that in Estonia because Estonia is a stable country, as are its neighbors. Estonia doesn't have the massive threat of an extremist group that regularly commits genocide on the daily.
Was Syria a bad place to live in before the civil war? Can you show me one successful Middle Eastern democracy? They always end up killing each other when they try to achieve that or we try to import them that. Western democracy seems to be incompatible with them.
[QUOTE=Tobylol;49300598]Interesting read, although honestly living in an oppressive regime and wanting to find a better life in a more fair society is a totally justified reason, regardless if your life is at stake or not.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's a great reason to immigrate. But then you shouldn't apply for asylum. Even though I don't blame anyone for going that route (who wouldn't want a better life?), in the end this may make it harder for the people who truly need to seek asylum in another country.
It'd be interesting to see some actual statistics, though I suppose we won't get much more than a few anecdotes in the end.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300878]Was Syria a bad place to live in before the civil war? Can you show me one successful Middle Eastern democracy? They always end up killing each other when they try to achieve that or we try to import them that. Western democracy seems to be incompatible with them.[/QUOTE]
Probably because of the US and the Soviets fucking with the region so much it got to this point.
Also it's not in the Middle East but it's Arab and Muslim, Tunisia.
Also asking if a country that's undergoing armed revolt whether or not it was nice to live in answers your own question.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300878]Can you show me one successful Middle Eastern democracy? [/QUOTE]
Lebanon, Israel and Tunisia come to mind, though you could say Tunisia is in the Maghreb rather than the arbitrary designation of "middle east"
Lebanon is pretty much what the Middle East and Iran would be like if not for the dick waving during the cold war.
[QUOTE=Tobylol;49300598]Interesting read, although honestly living in an oppressive regime and wanting to find a better life in a more fair society is a totally justified reason, regardless if your life is at stake or not.[/QUOTE]
Then the entire nation should emigrate leaving the Assad family and a few government officials and army officers behind.
[editline]12th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;49300985]Lebanon is pretty much what the Middle East and Iran would be like if not for the dick waving during the cold war.[/QUOTE]
A sectarian nightmare rocked by a civil war that forced the entire Jewish population to evacuate?
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49301003]Then the entire nation should emigrate leaving the Assad family and a few government officials and army officers behind.[/QUOTE]
They shouldn't have fucked the country beyond repair, the people are completely justified in fleeing.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;49301019]They shouldn't have fucked the country beyond repair, the people are completely justified in fleeing.[/QUOTE]
You missed the point of my post. I was pointing out that, by your logic, the entire Syrian population should be lifted out of country and placed somewhere else because the regime is bad. I guess we (who?) should also perform this act in North Korea, Iran, Vietnam, the Central African Republic, China, and dozens of other nations with fiat governments. Even though the man in the article specifically stated that he wasn't leaving because of the government. Oh well, it doesn't have to make sense or be feasible.
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49301037]You missed the point of my post. I was pointing out that, by your logic, the entire Syrian population should be lifted out of country and placed somewhere else because the regime is bad. I guess we (who?) should also perform this act in North Korea, Iran, Vietnam, the Central African Republic, China, and dozens of other nations with fiat governments. Even though the man in the article specifically stated that he wasn't leaving because of the government. Oh well, it doesn't have to make sense or be feasible.[/QUOTE]
None of those countries are undergoing major civil wars (apart from the Congo, but we can't help those people as easily as we can help the Syrians due to geography). The main reason the Syrians are leaving is because of ISIS anyway on top of the horrid government. The civil war has been going on for 4 years, the refugee crisis has only started to get this big after ISIS moved in.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;49301078]None of those countries are undergoing major civil wars (apart from the Congo, but we can't help those people as easily as we can help the Syrians due to geography). The main reason the Syrians are leaving is because of ISIS anyway on top of the horrid government. The civil war has been going on for 4 years, the refugee crisis has only started to get this big after ISIS moved in.[/QUOTE]
Except the man in the article stated multiple times that he didn't care about the government or ISIS (which you ignored starting with your first post). Regardless, even if the war ended today and the country's entire infrastructure recovered immediately, immigration from the region would not stop. It has been going on for over two decades now, with war and without. Syria is a fraction of the immigration to Europe and North America. What's your big plan for Eritrea after you fix Syria? How about the rest of Africa and West Asia?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49300913]Lebanon, Israel and Tunisia come to mind, though you could say Tunisia is in the Maghreb rather than the arbitrary designation of "middle east"[/QUOTE]
Does Jordan count as well?
[QUOTE=Griffster26;49301112]Does Jordan count as well?[/QUOTE]
nah Jordan isnt a democracy
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