'Polite conversation' course for young women sparks backlash - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39348155[/url] [QUOTE]A Canadian school course that teaches girls about hairstyles, dinner party etiquette and "polite conversation" has sparked a backlash. The optional course at Eleanor Hall School in Clyde, Alberta, is to help young girls "navigate adolescence" with "self-esteem intact". It has met broad criticism, with one critic calling it a "sort of neo-1950s etiquette class".[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It also has "hands on" activities that include how to figure out your face and body shape in order to "determine how your style can be enhanced using tips and tricks".[/QUOTE] Okay, so I know this isn't a huge story but I am very interested to see what people here will think of this sort of thing. I personally love 1950s PSA and instructional videos so the idea of a womans class seems very exciting to me. I hope thing becomes a trend here in the US and in Canada. I think this sort of guidance could be good for young people.

God forbid people learn to make themselves look pretty or carry themselves. I'd much rather a hairy frumpy awkward feminist.

open it up to boys too and make it about how to not be an awkward mongoloid and it'll be golden

First of all, it's optional; secondly, you can't really tell at a glance if it [i]really[/i] enforces anything 'problematic' without studying it in some detail. The spectre of 50s-era individual repression hangs over this, understandably so, and the term 'polite conversation' does irk me a little, but I still think this could be beneficial and interesting to some. Lord knows, besides, that everyone could do with a place to be taught how to best carry themselves. Self-esteem is a tricky thing, but it's nice to reinforce it with some ingrained sense of what is and isn't acceptable. I think a lot of people would appreciate a 'here's how to not be an awkward fucko' class.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52006125]open it up to boys too and make it about how to not be an awkward mongoloid and it'll be golden[/QUOTE] I know I could have fucking used it

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52006125]open it up to boys too and make it about how to not be an awkward mongoloid and it'll be golden[/QUOTE] Definitely, there should be classes for them too. In some instances I do think gender specific classes might make sense and I think the idea might be contrary to how a lot of people feel about gender these days, there being so many new ones recognized in certain places

[QUOTE=Glo;52006205]Definitely, there should be classes for them too. In some instances I do think gender specific classes might make sense and I think the idea might be contrary to how a lot of people feel about gender these days, there being so many new ones recognized in certain places[/QUOTE] Why would we teach ass-backwards gender norms in schools when they have no place in modern society? There's a reason sexism and racism was prevalent in the 50s, it's because shit like this is normalized as being "a healthy boy /girl"

Honestly I wouldn't have any problem with it if the course focused on general manners and style tips and things that don't specifically enforce the "girls should be properly dainty" or something dated like that lol. There's not like a syllabus here or anything though so I can't tell. That and it would probably be a neat course if it opened up to men too. I think everyone could benefit from a general social etiquette class but I can see why people would be upset if it was reinforcing unnecessary stereotypes in the process.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52006125]open it up to boys too and make it about how to not be an awkward mongoloid and it'll be golden[/QUOTE] Lesson number 1: read my title.

I like this. Everywhere I go I'm amazed at how disrespectful kids are - and I'm always sitting there baffled as I was raised to be very aware and respectful of what's going on around me. Most of the time the parents are to blame for letting their kids run around everywhere screaming and shit, but classes like these could help to reinforce positive behavior, and instill confidence at the same time.

Sounds great, especially if this is something that will be improved on and perfected. Trying out a new course for the first time will always be awkward. As a student in Israel I was part of a first-of-its-kind school trip to the occupied lands to meet both settlers and Palestinians, and anything from far-rightists to former terrorists. It was a bit weird and disjointed but now it's becoming more and more popular and refined. Kids need manners. My only complaint is that this is a girls-only course. Either make an equivalent for boys or make it open for everybody, and don't make it about which hairstyles are appropriate at dinner or dumb shit like that. Make it about social things that are actually helpful.

[QUOTE=NixNax123;52006214]Why would we teach ass-backwards gender norms in schools when they have no place in modern society? There's a reason sexism and racism was prevalent in the 50s, it's because shit like this is normalized as being "a healthy boy /girl"[/QUOTE] Well, we aren't exactly going back to the 50's, but we can take some of the good from it as a lesson for today. The course in mention has topics like women in history, and Beauty throughout different cultures. Gender roles are an interpretation of the differences between the sexes and how we can use those differences to better funcition in society. It's just a guide and not a rule, as such young people should also be taught to be open to many differences between eachother and other cultures.

[QUOTE=Aetna;52006244]I like this. Everywhere I go I'm amazed at how disrespectful kids are - and I'm always sitting there baffled as I was raised to be very aware and respectful of what's going on around me. Most of the time the parents are to blame for letting their kids run around everywhere screaming and shit, but classes like these could help to reinforce positive behavior, and instill confidence at the same time.[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more, if modern parents are incapable of teaching children how to navigate society with grace and charm than I'm glad there's a class that does it for them. Hell, open up a male-only version of the class and [I]maybe[/I] you'll be doing society a favor.

[QUOTE=Bertie;52006292]Sounds great, especially if this is something that will be improved on and perfected. Trying out a new course for the first time will always be awkward. As a student in Israel I was part of a first-of-its-kind school trip to the occupied lands to meet both settlers and Palestinians, and anything from far-rightists to former terrorists. It was a bit weird and disjointed but now it's becoming more and more popular and refined. Kids need manners. My only complaint is that this is a girls-only course. Either make an equivalent for boys or make it open for everybody, and don't make it about which hairstyles are appropriate at dinner or dumb shit like that. Make it about social things that are actually helpful.[/QUOTE] Yeah they certainly should have a male equivalent. And definitely some things are a little arbitrary, like makeup and hair styles, but i do think it helps young people to know what sort of grooming might be expected of them at an ordinary job. I'm not sure what its like for public schools in the US, i was in a private school, but I think classes on home economics, learning how to socialize, how to better your self esteem and present yourself in social situations could be a lot of help to teens struggling to find themselves and understand their role at school, at home and someday as the adult they are growing into. It really shouldnt be as rigid as old gender roles, like you said we can improve on older ideas.

Etiquette, self-care and conversation skills shouldn't be a gendered thing

[QUOTE=Talishmar;52006363]Etiquette, self-care and conversation skills shouldn't be a gendered thing[/QUOTE] I agree when it comes to etiquette and conversation, but self care does come with topics that are gendered in nature. Boys generally don't have to worry about menstration, getting fitted for a bra, applying makeup, etc. Boys likewise are going through a host their own unique changes that require different grooming. That's not to mention how testosterone and estrogen affect teens emotionally in different ways. For those reasons I do feel seperate classes could use the time more wisely. Though, i think all classes should be open to both sexes, in case they are interested in learning about it.

Yeah, this class is bs. It's so obviously meant to reinforce outdated sexist roles it's not funny

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52006553]Yeah, this class is bs. It's so obviously meant to reinforce outdated sexist roles it's not funny[/QUOTE] Could you elaborate?

[QUOTE=NixNax123;52006214]Why would we teach ass-backwards gender norms in schools when they have no place in modern society? There's a reason sexism and racism was prevalent in the 50s, it's because shit like this is normalized as being "a healthy boy /girl"[/QUOTE] Ugh. There's nothing wrong with offering an [i]optional [/i] class about not being a dickhead. As for the beauty-side, I've seen/smelled quite a few people that need to be introduced to a washer/dryer and a shower.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52006553]Yeah, this class is bs. It's so obviously meant to reinforce outdated sexist roles it's not funny[/QUOTE] like "be polite" and "sit up straight" and "have awareness of your self image"? how sexist got any insider knowledge on the kinds of things they teach there? or is this purely assumption based on what's "obvious"?

I wonder why it's called "polite conversation" when it sounds like it's about overall etiquette.

[QUOTE=Glo;52006562]Could you elaborate?[/QUOTE] A class just for girls that teaches them how to do makeup, hairstyles and dinner place settings? It says it's so that they can get through school"with self esteem intact" shouldn't they be able to do that anyway? Why not try and change the hyper competitive, shallow social atmosphere of schools instead? [editline]24th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TheJoey;52006565]like "be polite" and "sit up straight" and "have awareness of your self image"? how sexist got any insider knowledge on the kinds of things they teach there? or is this purely assumption based on what's "obvious"?[/QUOTE] Just for girls genius

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52006572]I wonder why it's called "polite conversation" when it sounds like it's about overall etiquette.[/QUOTE] it's not. it's called "Women Studies." hmmm let's take a closer look at the course, lads [url]http://www.phrd.ab.ca/view.php?action=object&id=31417&stream=Newsletter[/url] [quote]Girls’ self-image and self-esteem takes a battering in a world where they are bombarded with distorted images of what it means to be female. “In this age of social media, girls are being frequently compared to others and exposed to messages about how they aren’t good enough unless they dress and behave a certain way,” said Michelle Savoie, who teaches Jr. High at Eleanor Hall School. In a bid to help her students navigate adolescence with their self-image and self-esteem intact, Savoie is offering a new course - Women Studies - at Eleanor Hall School in Clyde. “I hope the girls will learn to be supportive of each other and gain confidence and self-esteem as they discover who they are and who they want to be.” Savoie was inspired to develop the new option after hearing a presentation from the principal of Westmount Jr. High School about that school’s Girl Power program.[/quote] GASP SELF ESTEEM? how [b] S E X I S T [/b] [quote]Through self-discovery, self-awareness and reflection activities students will also explore their own views on self-esteem, self-worth, and body image. “The goal is to improve the way they see themselves and other women around them,” said Savoie.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Robman8908;52006563]Ugh. There's nothing wrong with offering an [i]optional [/i] class about not being a dickhead. As for the beauty-side, I've seen/smelled quite a few people that need to be introduced to a washer/dryer and a shower.[/QUOTE] But according to the class, only women need to worry about that though

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52006582]Just for girls genius[/QUOTE] so it's sexist against boys?

[QUOTE=TheJoey;52006589]it's not. it's called "Women Studies." hmmm let's take a closer look at the course, lads [url]http://www.phrd.ab.ca/view.php?action=object&id=31417&stream=Newsletter[/url] GASP SELF ESTEEM? how [b] S E X I S T [/b][/QUOTE] Their goal sounds fine, so let's let them teach girls that what they need for self esteem is to be as constantly good looking as possible, and if people make fun of them, it's THEIR fault, not the bully

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52006591]But according to the class, only women need to worry about that though[/QUOTE] that's not the point. it's not about "only women." it's a course started by a woman to help young women deal with their self esteem and stop worrying about what they SHOULD look like based on standards they see in the media around them. so instead of following Cosmo's opinions and changing yourself, they find ways to make themselves feel better about their self image based on how they currently [i]are[/i].

[QUOTE=TheJoey;52006592]so it's sexist against boys?[/QUOTE] No, it's putting the idea that girls must worry about things like this more

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52006582]Why not try and change the hyper competitive, shallow social atmosphere of schools instead?[/QUOTE] Literally "starving kids in africa" argument.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52006606]No, it's pudding the idea that girls must worry about things like this more[/QUOTE] everyone needs to give some thought into their self image. the message is, though, that women should worry about it less, and stop worrying about achieving the impossible standard. you're getting it completely wrong.