Bush Snr reveals he voted for Clinton, Bush Jnr refused to vote

[Download]

[quote]A new book is set to be released later this month, in which the two former leaders open up about their relationship.

But the book, entitled The Last Republicans and written by historian Mark Updegrove, also explores how both men feel about the US President.

In short, they're not fans.

According to the book, George HW Bush, who served as president from 1989 to 1993, has an instinctive dislike of Mr Trump.

The 93-year-old reveals he voted for Mrs Clinton at the 2016 election and describes Mr Trump as a "blowhard" driven by ego, who lacks a commitment to public service.

And George W Bush, who served in the White House from 2001 to 2009, reveals he voted for "none of the above" because he believes the billionaire businessman lacks humility and a necessary understanding of what it means to be president.

That's why, according to an interview author Updegrove gave with the New York Times, the younger Bush fears he will turn out to be the last Republican elected president.[/quote]

[url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-05/george-bush-voted-for-hillary-clinton-over-donald-trump/9120020?sf144458455=1[/url]

Interesting they think of themselves as the "last Republicans". In many ways I see Clinton as being a lot like Bush Jnr was.

[Judas]

Yeah but who did Bill vote for

[Tagger]

Bush Jr confirmed for radical centrist.

[TheHydra]

[QUOTE=Judas;52858003]Yeah but who did Bill vote for[/QUOTE]

ron paul

[Bob The Knob]

[QUOTE=TheHydra;52858135]ron paul[/QUOTE]

Right but who did Ron Paul vote for?

[Mister Sandman]

In a way they're right, I think the alt-right is changing what it means to be a Republican in to something even worse than it meant before. I consider old Republicans as mostly being in service of oligarchy, but new ones, well, I used to consider terms like neo-nazi and fascist to be pretty big exaggerations for most of them, but no, the more I see it turns out that's pretty dead on.

Though frankly my sympathy for them is virtually zero, I think the 'old guard' republicans are very much not fans of this all but it's partially their own fuckin' fault anyway.

[Kube]

Depends on their definition of Republican. Southern Republicans? Then sure. Liberal republicans like Teddy Roosevelt/Eisenhower? Then no.

[coup]

[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52858144]Right but who did Ron Paul vote for?[/QUOTE]

vermin supreme

[Omali]

[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52858144]Right but who did Ron Paul vote for?[/QUOTE]

Ron Paul.

[Hail Satan]

Trump response
[media]https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/926836061304635394[/media]

[Kube]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52858481]Trump response
[media]https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/926836061304635394[/media][/QUOTE]

You can bet your ass he'd be praising the invasion of Iraq if the Bush family had complimented him.

[Riller]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52858481]Trump response
[media]https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/926836061304635394[/media][/QUOTE]

Kinda funny that he attacks the Iraq war(s) as if they were something the Bushes were particularly proud of. It's just what they're known for, not their pride and joy. If you really wanted to make petty attacks, at least find some piece of legislation or policy they got through that really mattered to them, and attack that.

[Bob The Knob]

I'm not completely confident that the Iraq War will still hold that title by the end of Trump's presidency

[LZTYBRN]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52858481]Trump response
[media]https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/926836061304635394[/media][/QUOTE]

[media]https://twitter.com/spettypi/status/843912693186772996[/media]

:thinking:

I have a gut instinct that it wouldn't be much better if we had "never left" and Trump was in control of policy now.

[Raidyr]

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52859902]
:thinking:

I have a gut instinct that it wouldn't be much better if we had "never left" and Trump was in control of policy now.[/QUOTE]

Both the Iraqi's and the American public wanted America out of Iraq which is why Bush Jr started the withdraw process that was completed under Obama. ISIL definitely could have been contained had the US remained but that was politically untenable.

[Download]

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52859608]You can bet your ass he'd be praising the invasion of Iraq if the Bush family had complimented him.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if someone will dig up some comments from Trump on Iraq where he praises the invasion.

[zerglingv2]

[QUOTE=download;52859982]I wonder if someone will dig up some comments from Trump on Iraq where he praises the invasion.[/QUOTE]

yo

Seems he was more for it before we went through with it then said it was pretty retarded

[URL="http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/"]http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/

[/URL]

[Whibble]

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52858232]In a way they're right, I think the alt-right is changing what it means to be a Republican in to something even worse than it meant before. I consider old Republicans as mostly being in service of oligarchy, but new ones, well, I used to consider terms like neo-nazi and fascist to be pretty big exaggerations for most of them, but no, the more I see it turns out that's pretty dead on.

Though frankly my sympathy for them is virtually zero, I think the 'old guard' republicans are very much not fans of this all but it's partially their own fuckin' fault anyway.[/QUOTE]

if you think that describing most modern republicans with terms like "fascist" and "neo-nazi" is pretty dead on, you live a very, very sheltered and echo chamber filled life.

[Hail Satan]

[QUOTE=Whibble;52860449]if you think that describing most modern republicans with terms like "fascist" and "neo-nazi" is pretty dead on, you live a very, very sheltered and echo chamber filled life.[/QUOTE]

How about hyper-authoritarian?

[Sableye]

Maybe they should have spoke out sooner, you know... like before the innauguration, back when everybody was worried about trump.

I hope the GOP burns to the ground after all the shit they have done and continue to do to this country in the name of power.

[zakededodead]

[QUOTE=Riller;52859720]Kinda funny that he attacks the Iraq war(s) as if they were something the Bushes were particularly proud of. It's just what they're known for, not their pride and joy. If you really wanted to make petty attacks, at least find some piece of legislation or policy they got through that really mattered to them, and attack that.[/QUOTE]

What? If wars aren't something you're sure of and don't "really matter to them" then it's really something to be attacked over. Just because trump is VERY much worse doesn't excuse the iraq wars.

[isak]

[QUOTE=Whibble;52860449]if you think that describing most modern republicans with terms like "fascist" and "neo-nazi" is pretty dead on, you live a very, very sheltered and echo chamber filled life.[/QUOTE]

You're right - not [I]most[/I]. Just the leadership. And "fascist" is too kind - fascism is an ideology. The current GOP leadership is amoral and self-centered, not fascist. They have no ideology outside of either personal self-interest or outright spite and hatred. This new breed of Republican leadership is different from people like GWB. Bush had an ideology of neoliberalism, like most Americans. Trump's ideology is "fuck everything Obama stood for." That's not fascist, that's hatred and spite.

I used to be wary of calling them fascist, then I started calling them fascist, and now I think they're worse than fascists. At least fascists have a reasonable desire to keep society ordered and secure, and a motivation to pursue those fair goals, however misplaced I think they are. Trump sure as fuck doesn't have that.

[Sgman91]

[QUOTE=.Isak.;52861738][B]You're right - not [I]most[/I]. Just the leadership.[/B] And "fascist" is too kind - fascism is an ideology. [B]The current GOP leadership is amoral and self-centered, not fascist.[/B] They have no ideology outside of either personal self-interest or outright spite and hatred. This new breed of Republican leadership is different from people like GWB. Bush had an ideology of neoliberalism, like most Americans. Trump's ideology is "fuck everything Obama stood for." That's not fascist, that's hatred and spite.[/QUOTE]

So which is it? Are they fascist or not fascist?

[elix]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52858481]Trump response
[media]https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/926836061304635394[/media][/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/21/donald-trump-struggles-to-explain-comments-on-persian-gulf-war-from-2002/"]That's not what Trump said back in 2002.[/URL] [URL="https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/in-2002-donald-trump-said-he-supported-invading-iraq-on-the#.awrJQgKYq"]He told Howard Stern he was for it, "I guess".[/URL]

[QUOTE=zerglingv2;52860328]yo

Seems he was more for it before we went through with it then said it was pretty retarded

[URL="http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/"]http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/[/URL][/QUOTE]
This too.

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=sgman91;52862282]So which is it? Are they fascist or not fascist?[/QUOTE]
Does it really matter if you only get to choose between fascist and worse than fascist?

[Sgman91]

[QUOTE=_Axel;52862451]Does it really matter if you only get to choose between fascist and worse than fascist?[/QUOTE]

It matters if you're interested in accuracy. Fighting for fascism is very different than fighting for narcissistic policy.

[isak]

[QUOTE=sgman91;52862282]So which is it? Are they fascist or not fascist?[/QUOTE]

They use some tools of fascism, but it's inaccurate to call them fascists. Authoritarian's a fair descriptor, though. Fascism's just a pretty concrete and well-defined political ideology, and using it as a pejorative against Trump's administration confuses crony capitalism, corruption, political narcissism, and refusal of compromise with some of the real political beliefs of fascism as an ideology.

This administration shares some elements with fascism, but they're by and large limited to [I]tactics[/I], not beliefs, motivations, or ideology. I've called them fascist a bunch, but it's not really an accurate description. It's a pejorative, like "liberal" on the other side, and neither are accurate descriptors.

[HumanAbyss]

Trump isn't a fascist.

He's just an authoritarian who wishes he could be a dictator, and would take that chance at the drop of a fucking hat.

Fascism is an overused word today, but you don't even need it to describe Trump as the authoritarian shit heel that he is.

[cis.joshb]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52862627]Trump isn't a fascist.

He's just an authoritarian who wishes he could be a dictator, and would take that chance at the drop of a fucking hat.

Fascism is an overused word today, but you don't even need it to describe Trump as the authoritarian shit heel that he is.[/QUOTE]

yes, he's just an authoritarian ultranationalist who believes in a national rebirth (make America great again) and has attacked the media and freedom of speech and increasingly assaulted and tried to control the truth. almost like a fascist

[Fulcrum]

Bush voting for hillary and her general pro corporate neolib agenda demonstrates aptly how the dems aren't left wing. Dems are just slightly more liberal republicans. I'm in the UK and both dems and repubs seem economically very right wing