• Pence Vists South Korea and Demilitarized Zone- "the era of strategic patience is over"
    30 replies, posted
[quote]Pence made an unannounced visit to the Demilitarized Zone Monday at the start of his 10-day trip to Asia in a U.S. show of force that allowed the vice president to gaze at North Korean soldiers from afar and stare directly across a border marked by razor wire. As the brown bomber jacket-clad vice president was briefed near the military demarcation line, two North Korean soldiers watched from a short distance away, one taking multiple photographs of the American visitor. Pence told reporters near the DMZ that President Donald Trump was hopeful China would use its "extraordinary levers" to pressure the North to abandon its weapons program, a day after the North's failed missile test launch. But Pence expressed impatience with the unwillingness of the regime to move toward ridding itself of nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. Pointing to the quarter-century since the United States first confronted North Korea over its attempts to build nuclear weapons, the vice president said a period of patience had followed. "But the era of strategic patience is over," he declared. "President Trump has made it clear that the patience of the United States and our allies in this region has run out and we want to see change. We want to see North Korea abandon its reckless path of the development of nuclear weapons, and also its continual use and testing of ballistic missiles is unacceptable." In Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, speaking to reporters Monday evening, said he hopes the United States "there will be no unilateral actions like those we saw recently in Syria and that the U.S. will follow the line that President Trump repeatedly voiced during the election campaign." Meanwhile, China made a plea for a return to negotiations. Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said tensions need to be eased on the Korean Peninsula to bring the escalating dispute there to a peaceful resolution. Lu said Beijing wants to resume the multi-party negotiations that ended in stalemate in 2009 and suggested that U.S. plans to deploy a missile defense system in South Korea were damaging its relations with China. In Tokyo, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, speaking to a parliamentary session Monday, said: "Needless to say, diplomatic effort is important to maintain peace. But dialogue for the sake of having dialogue is meaningless." "We need to apply pressure on North Korea so they seriously respond to a dialogue" with the international community, he said, urging China and Russia to play more constructive roles on the issue.[/quote] [url=https://www.apnews.com/99564dcad269469490f2fe76ca5b2729/Pence-warns-NKorea-'era-of-strategic-patience-is-over']AP[/url]
So much for America First.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52115719]So much for America First.[/QUOTE] I'm no fan of the current administration, but leaving SK to deal with NK on their own would be much worse for the USA in the long run surely? Not to mention if they have long range missiles.
Let's be frank, Trump or no Trump, this was going to happen eventually. I only hope that all surrounding countries of North Korea are ready for the event and the aftermath that's going to follow.
I wonder when the war will break out. One just hopes that that the innocent people in the region will be spared most of the hardship... but that is a big and too optimistic hope.
Russia play a constructive role? You mean laugh it up as America potentially blunders into another multi-trillion dollar war a little over 5 years since finishing it's last one.
[QUOTE=El Burro;52115755]Russia play a constructive role? You mean laugh it up as America potentially blunders into another multi-trillion dollar war a little over 5 years since finishing it's last one.[/QUOTE] I think most of us understand that a war with North Korea would be very different to USA's previous wars.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52115746]I wonder when the war will break out. One just hopes that that the innocent people in the region will be spared most of the hardship... but that is a big and too optimistic hope.[/QUOTE] Regardless of the outcome, they're going to be suffering. On the one hand, current regime ensures the most of them live in abject poverty and malnutrition. On the other hand, going in means: a) People are going to die in the crossfire (assuming that fat bastard doesn't pull a Samson manuever and nuke his own country) b) Those people that are left are going to get the culture shock of their lives and struggle to re-integrate with modern society. The best possible outcome until now has been to patiently wait for this obese fuck to die, hoping that one of the army generals more amenable to dialogue seizes power after the infighting is done and the dust has settled. This has failed and the death toll within their country from the famine continues to mount.
To be honest, I kind of hope that war does break out. That probably sounds like a shit thing to say, but I think something needs to be done before they have a full nuclear capability. After that, I don't doubt that North Korea will be willing to use nuclear weapons if they feel threatened. As force seems to be the only language they understand, it makes sense to me to stop North Korea before they get too dangerous (see Nazi Germany and the pre-WWII appeasement for an example).
[QUOTE=David29;52115818]To be honest, I kind of hope that war does break out. That probably sounds like a shit thing to say, but I think something needs to be done before they have a full nuclear capability. After that, I don't doubt that North Korea will be willing to use nuclear weapons if they feel threatened. As force seems to be the only language they understand, it makes sense to me to stop North Korea before they get too dangerous (see Nazi Germany and the pre-WWII appeasement for an example).[/QUOTE] In my opinion letting NK get this close to nuclear capabilities has been a mistake. Can anyone imagine the political stress a hermit nation with a villain complex would cause on the international community. To top that off, rockets that can propel the warhead a considerable distance? America jumped at the chance of stopping WMDs in the middle east, but the loosest canon of them all is sitting right on top of south korea.
I think that however the standoff is going to play out, China's help in alleviating the following humanitarian crisis will be crucial.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52115719]So much for America First.[/QUOTE] Its weird because Trumps foreign policy stances have been the opposite of what he campaigned on so he seems inconsistent but at the same time what he campaigned on was retarded I agree with a lot of current developments.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;52116444]Its weird because Trumps foreign policy stances have been the opposite of what he campaigned on so he seems inconsistent but at the same time what he campaigned on was retarded I agree with a lot of current developments.[/QUOTE] You can tell that a lot of his personal policies have been suppressed by the larger government around him.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52116483]You can tell that a lot of his personal policies have been suppressed by the larger government around him.[/QUOTE] It's like he turned into Clinton but with destroying foreign relations by being an ass, throwing out social programs to build a wall and ruining the epa&internet. Conned lol.
I honestly just want to see the end of North Korea and the start of a one Korea with all of its people free and happy. If that means war then i guess it needs to happen.
[QUOTE=mark6789;52116523]I honestly just want to see the end of North Korea and the start of a one Korea with all of its people free and happy. If that means war then i guess it needs to happen.[/QUOTE] Anyone with the remains of North Korea on their hands is NOT going to be happy for a very long time.
Though I agree that a Korean conflict may have eventually been necessary, Trump is the last person I'd trust to lead the charge.
Yeah SK doesn't want an united Korea, at least not for a long time, suddendly they'd go from being decent to half of the united Korea being in extreme poverty and other social issues that they would have to deal with. NK will remain independent at least until it gets it's shit fixed and that won't be for decades.
What makes me the most nervous is the education system in North Korea. For decades and decades, the state media has portrayed the US as imperialists hell-bent on destroying the regime and enslaving the North Korean people. How can the US get involved without feeding into that idea? How many norks trust their state media and to what degree? The whole thing's a god dammed mess and I don't see how this gets resolved.
[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;52116649]What makes me the most nervous is the education system in North Korea. For decades and decades, the state media has portrayed the US as imperialists hell-bent on destroying the regime and enslaving the North Korean people. How can the US get involved without feeding into that idea? How many norks trust their state media and to what degree? The whole thing's a god dammed mess and I don't see how this gets resolved.[/QUOTE] Whatever happens, SK needs a primary role.
Even with the north liberated, imagine having to undo generations of social issues. No doubt a neo-dictatorial movement would emerge with north citizens still siding with the dismantled dictatorship's ideology.
[QUOTE=01271;52116516]It's like he turned into Clinton but with destroying foreign relations by being an ass, throwing out social programs to build a wall and ruining the epa&internet. Conned lol.[/QUOTE] Pretty much. I don't know whether to applaud him for deviating from some of his crazier rhetoric or hate him for bullshitting his way into office.
[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;52116649]What makes me the most nervous is the education system in North Korea. For decades and decades, the state media has portrayed the US as imperialists hell-bent on destroying the regime and enslaving the North Korean people. How can the US get involved without feeding into that idea? How many norks trust their state media and to what degree? The whole thing's a god dammed mess and I don't see how this gets resolved.[/QUOTE] The Kim Dynasty's Cult of Personality wouldn't hold up very well if North Korea were opened up to the rest of the world. A lot of it is just too absurd to work outside of a controlled environment. The "foreign imperialist" stuff could be used by, say, a former general looking to start a nationalist movement, but it's hard to guess what such at thing would look like because it would have so little to do with what makes North Korea what it is.
South korea has no capability to deal with Norks
Goodbye era of strategic patience, hello era of nonstrategic spontaneity!
[QUOTE=mark6789;52116523]I honestly just want to see the end of North Korea and the [B]start of a one Korea with all of its people free and happy[/B]. If that means war then i guess it needs to happen.[/QUOTE] Even if SK annexed all of the north today, you would not see the bolded in your life time.
The social upheaval and culture shock alone would take decades to fully wear off. That's not even taking into account all of the economic issues.
[QUOTE=mark6789;52116523]I honestly just want to see the end of North Korea and the start of a one Korea with all of its people free and happy. If that means war then i guess it needs to happen.[/QUOTE] As South Korean, That will never happen in my life.
[QUOTE=mark6789;52116523]I honestly just want to see the end of North Korea and the start of a one Korea with all of its people free and happy. If that means war then i guess it needs to happen.[/QUOTE] Not a huge fan of this humanitarianism by way of war stance.
We could always just topple kim and install a puppet :/
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