The single most important aspect of debate: intellectual honesty - General

Debating a subject is not about winning the argument. In fact, you benefit more when you lose, and when you [I]accept[/I] that you've lost. I love debate; especially when I get proven wrong. When I'm presented with a piece of evidence or a theory that I had not yet considered, it forces me to apply that to my argument. Even if it doesn't change my [i]stance[/i] on the subject, I can use that information to build a stronger case for my next bout. What makes debate so great is that everybody has a unique perspective on any given topic. Exposing yourself to that perspective and finding a way to accommodate it in your own values is how you learn more about the world. Be intellectually honest enough to apply everything you read to your beliefs. When you come out on top in an argument, be glad that you had the opportunity to expose somebody to a line of thinking he had never considered, but be sad that he couldn't do the same for you. When you are proven wrong, have the integrity and intelligence to concede, step back, and consider the things you've learned. And remember, if somebody comes in and says the silliest shit you can imagine, he's still an intelligent and respectable person if he can remember to be honest and expand his argument when presented with new evidence. People who learn from their losses constantly improve; people who belligerently refuse to concede a point never improve. This is a very simple concept, but it is the single most important thing to remember in debate.

sticky thread make bda mod unban zeke

This seems more like something that needs to be a sticky than a thread... And don't you dare start a debate on how whether or not this should be a thread and not a sticky.

A very wise thing to say. It's something I think too many of us, myself included, forget about.

Thank you, yes. I've been reading through "The logic behind Religion" and a frighteningly large amount of it is posts like "there is no god. this is a fact" and then refusing to listen to anyone else. Debate is not about hammering your points in with a sledgehammer and losing no ground, it's about displaying your opinions and explaining your reasoning behind them.

[QUOTE=Corndog Ninja;32387595]Thank you, yes. I've been reading through "The logic behind Religion" and a frighteningly large amount of it is posts like "there is no god. this is a fact" and then refusing to listen to anyone else. Debate is not about hammering your points in with a sledgehammer and losing no ground, it's about displaying your opinions and explaining your reasoning behind them.[/QUOTE] That was the user Bat-shit.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;32387548]I love debate; especially when I get proven wrong.[/QUOTE] Sadly I've never had that feeling, as I'm always right. [sp]It's a joke people.[/sp]

[QUOTE=fenwick;32387665]Sadly I've never had that feeling, as I'm always right.[/QUOTE] great post mate keep up the stellar work!

[QUOTE=fenwick;32387665]Sadly I've never had that feeling, as I'm always right.[/QUOTE] That statement is false. [QUOTE=fenwick] [sp] It's a joke people. [/sp] [/quote] So is this.

[QUOTE=fenwick;32387665]Sadly I've never had that feeling, as I'm always right.[/QUOTE] Try not to be so conceited.

I completely agree, i will bring it a step further and say that intentionally (and unintentionally, its best to point out fallacies you see for this reason) using underhanded tactics like subtle fallacies such as the ever lurking equivocation fallacy can completely destroy what could have been an interesting conversation and learning experience for both parties. Our language is often a barrier for this sort of thing, going back to equivocation we often see words meaning multiple yet similar things that could destroy or make an argument. The language simply isn't made for intellectually honest debate and conversation. We need to make the best of what we have though.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;32387548]Debating a subject is not about winning the argument. In fact, you benefit more when you lose, and when you [I]accept[/I] that you've lost.[/QUOTE] You're wrong. Debates are mainly about winning, looking good, and saving face. [sp]That is because the purpose of language is to help a species efficiently impregnate women and losing is a poor way to impress the ladies.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Sector 7;32387700]You're wrong. Debates are mainly about winning, looking good, and saving face. That is because the purpose of language is to help a species efficiently impregnate women and losing in no way facilitates that process.[/QUOTE] Language hasn't evolved well with our evolving minds, similarly to our societies. You (you, not you as in people in general, but sector 7) are either right or wrong depending on what we want to make of debate. Should we make it something that can benefit our minds and thoughts, or just meaningless pandering to the ego and dated instincts like the need to reproduce above all else. Today, education reduces the amount of kids people have. Whether or not this was just a coincidence that has left us in a good position or a result of our minds evolving past it, and having some evolutionary baggage, the way forward is clear to me.

I think this is a good place to teach everyone how to admit that you're wrong. First you're going to want to ignore most of the post that proves you wrong. Ellipses (...) are your friend, use them to quote the post but edit out the bits that make you look bad. You can even change entire passages to suit your needs if you combine ellipses with [square brackets] within the quote. Second you'll have to dismiss your adversary's sources as being either left-biased, right-biased, or just plain wrong. It doesn't matter if they just quoted the Journal of American Medicine, everyone knows doctors are communists. Third, dismiss your adversary themselves as being biased or wrong. Find previous posts they've made on the internet or just come up with some of your own. Nobody remembers every post they make so you can just make some up and say they posted them. Now, to admit that you're wrong. Your debate opponent has been crushed, they look like a total idiot, and you are the smarter man. Now you can become the bigger man by admitting that you're wrong - about something other than the topic you were debating. Find an offhand comment they made in the thread and concede to it. Congratulations! You've won the debate by strategically losing a different debate. Nice job. Obvious note: this is satire based on things I've seen happen in news threads. [b]Don't[/b] do this because in this forum, we'll call you out on it. Everyone is wrong sometimes. It's good for you, it makes you smarter.

there can be no justice in a forum that doesn't allow Zeke129 to post

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32387747]debate tips[/QUOTE] You forgot to mention ratings, which are possibly the deadliest weapon in the facepunch master-debater's arsenal. If you disagree with your opponent, rating them dumb will sway the opinion of the board greatly in your favor. Rating them 'funny' is even [b]more[/b] effective, as it implies you think their post is a joke! Do this at every opportunity, and nobody will be able to take your opponent seriously. never, ever use the disagree rating though. That makes you look polite, and we all know that polite people are submissive and misinformed. Remember: The angrier you are, the [i]more right[/i] you are.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32387747]do this because in this forum, we'll call you out on it. Everyone is wrong sometimes. It's good for you, it makes you smarter.[/QUOTE] Holy crap, how did we get a forum like this on facepunch of all places. I'm loving it.

[QUOTE=Sector 7;32387768]You forgot to mention ratings, which are possibly the deadliest weapon in the facepunch master-debater's arsenal. If you disagree with your opponent, rating them dumb will sway the opinion of the board greatly in your favor. Rating them 'funny' is even [b]more[/b] effective, as it implies you think their post is a joke! Do this at every opportunity, and nobody will be able to take your opponent seriously.[/QUOTE] Thank you for this useful strategy.

[QUOTE=Sector 7;32387768]You forgot to mention ratings, which are possibly the deadliest weapon in the facepunch master-debater's arsenal. If you disagree with your opponent, rating them dumb will sway the opinion of the board greatly in your favor. Rating them 'funny' is even [b]more[/b] effective, as it implies you think their post is a joke! Do this at every opportunity, and nobody will be able to take your opponent seriously. never, ever use the disagree rating though. That makes you look polite, and we all know that polite people are submissive and misinformed. Remember: The angrier you are, the [i]more right[/i] you are.[/QUOTE] You forget anybody who actually takes ratings seriously is an extremely silly person.

[QUOTE=Fables;32387577]This seems more like something that needs to be a sticky than a thread... And don't you dare start a debate on how whether or not this should be a thread and not a sticky.[/QUOTE]1 sticky per forum.

[QUOTE=CheeseMan;32387809]You forget anybody who actually takes ratings seriously is an extremely silly person.[/QUOTE] Ratings are like pheromones. You might not believe in them, but you're gonna pay attention to whoever has the most.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;32387810]1 sticky per forum.[/QUOTE] Could you not add this into the main sticky then?

replace the current sticky with this thread

[QUOTE=Fables;32387833]Could you not add this into the main sticky then?[/QUOTE]Yes

so you're saying don't argue like nick naylor [video=youtube;eW87GRmunMY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW87GRmunMY[/video]