Lee Kuan Yew, founder of modern Singapore dies at 91
39 replies, posted
[QUOTE]SINGAPORE (AP) -- The government says Lee Kuan Yew, who as the founder of modern Singapore helped transform the sleepy port into one of the world's richest nations, has died. He was 91.
Lee was admitted to Singapore General Hospital on Feb. 5 for severe pneumonia and was later put on life support.
The Prime Minister's Office said in a statement on Facebook that Lee "passed away peacefully" at 3:18 a.m. Monday.
Lee was feared for his authoritarian tactics but insisted that strict limits on speech and public protest were necessary to maintain stability in the multiethnic and multi-religious country.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_SINGAPORE_OBIT_LEE_KUAN_YEW?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT[/url]
[QUOTE]Lee was feared for his authoritarian tactics but insisted that strict limits on speech and public protest were necessary to maintain stability in the multiethnic and multi-religious country.[/QUOTE]
Good riddance.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47376145]Good riddance.[/QUOTE]
Need I remind you of a certain dictator:[IMG]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/617/Hitler.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE]
Anyway, he did well, even with the rules. The CEO of Razer sent out a Facebook message saying "Today, the world has lost one of the great leaders of its time.
He has inspired us all with his epic legacy – one we’ve taken more than a page from.
His fearless determination and relentless pursuit of perfection will continue to inspire us,
so that we may never cease to make waves in the world, just as he has.
‪#‎RememberLKY‬
- Min-Liang Tan, CEO Razer Inc."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47376145]Good riddance.[/QUOTE]
Say what you will of the morality of the policies, (and question whether they would work elsewhere) they were very effective there and have been main cause of why Singapore is now one of, if not the most successful nations of the world. And for a country of that size and that many different ethnicities and religions, that's quite an extraordinary achievement.
Extremely well done to him and rest in peace.
[QUOTE=xthenarwhalx;47377097]Need I remind you of a certain dictator[/QUOTE]
No, you do not. I'm quite aware Germany was ruled by a much worse despot in the last century, and would say the same about him, thank you.
[QUOTE=Gordon Frohm;47378715]Say what you will of the morality of the policies, (and question whether they would work elsewhere) they were very effective there and have been main cause of why Singapore is now one of, if not the most successful nations of the world. And for a country of that size and that many different ethnicities and religions, that's quite an extraordinary achievement.[/QUOTE]
So you're putting stability and economic prowess above human rights.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47378831]So you're putting stability and economic prowess above human rights.[/QUOTE]
That's how you go from 3rd to 1st world. Every country in the world does it; so you can have a choice of:
3rd world standard of living, and probably no human rights under a despot
or
1st world standard of living, and probably a few human rights under a strongman.
Its rather eerie on the way to work, people were alot quieter, and every freaking smartphone is someone reading articles about him. And the whole 'Remembering Lee Kuan Yew' can be seen on every TV in the train Station.
I'll be heading down to the Parliament on wednesday with my dad, so I'll post some pics here.
He probably was the leader Putin dreams to be (and he isn't very good at imitating him)
Also, he's got balls. In the 60s, the CIA tried to bribe him and the CIA back out:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mO80XVd.png[/IMG]
I am having complicated LKY feelings.
An Autocratic conservative but a brilliant miracle worker.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47378831]So you're putting stability and economic prowess above human rights.[/QUOTE]
God, you make it sound like we're some dystopian nation ruled by big evil corporations.
I think most people see Singaporeans as being deprived of "basic human rights", but on the contrary I believe we have sacrificed a bit of political freedom in exchange for a great deal of social stability and standard of living. The restrictions to your rights aren't as oppressive as many make them out to be, and if you are a law-abiding citizen you'll live a comfortable life for the most part.
Singapore becoming an international powerhouse is in no small part due to the efforts of LKY, and I hope he rests in peace.
[QUOTE=poppyman;47380158]God, you make it sound like we're some dystopian nation ruled by big evil corporations.
I think most people see Singaporeans as being deprived of "basic human rights", but on the contrary I believe we have sacrificed a bit of political freedom in exchange for a great deal of social stability and standard of living. The restrictions to your rights aren't as oppressive as many make them out to be, and if you are a law-abiding citizen you'll live a comfortable life for the most part.
Singapore becoming an international powerhouse is in no small part due to the efforts of LKY, and I hope he rests in peace.[/QUOTE]
While I do trust you on your opinion because I have no idea what it's like in Singapore, something about what you just said comes off as a VERY bad mentality to me, no matter what government you live under.
This mentality on a large scale can lull any country's citizens and before you know it a government can get away with some terrible things. Not saying Singapore specifically, but any country.
[QUOTE=poppyman;47380158]God, you make it sound like we're some dystopian nation ruled by big evil corporations.
I think most people see Singaporeans as being deprived of "basic human rights", but on the contrary I believe we have sacrificed a bit of political freedom in exchange for a great deal of social stability and standard of living. The restrictions to your rights aren't as oppressive as many make them out to be, and if you are a law-abiding citizen you'll live a comfortable life for the most part.
Singapore becoming an international powerhouse is in no small part due to the efforts of LKY, and I hope he rests in peace.[/QUOTE]
is all of this true? [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/absurd-laws-of-singapore-2012-6[/url]
because if so, I'm pretty glad I don't live in singapore
[editline]23rd March 2015[/editline]
is it true that carrying certain drugs (marijuana) can get you executed? I hear that 15 grams can get you executed by hanging without trial. And that gay sex is illegal.
Basically one of Lee's tenets was that government should be framed based on the society it is governing. He thought that an essential part of Chinese (he was never concerned with Malays) culture was that democracy is optional.
Ironically this society creating government idea has completey solidified society's ability to change. Homosexuality is a lot more taboo in Singapore than in other parts of Asia, and the city remains a lot more conservative than surrounding areas.
Lee's insistence that society/culture should frame government has essentially created a government that freezes social and cultural change.
[editline]23rd March 2015[/editline]
Lee said in an interview that he only gave women equal rights so that the city could have more full time workers. He then said he regretted doing that because he thinks equal rights for women degraded the traditions of Singaporean culture.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47380266]is all of this true? [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/absurd-laws-of-singapore-2012-6[/url]
because if so, I'm pretty glad I don't live in singapore
[editline]23rd March 2015[/editline]
is it true that carrying certain drugs (marijuana) can get you executed? I hear that 15 grams can get you executed by hanging without trial. And that gay sex is illegal.[/QUOTE]
The limits are different for different drugs. Weed is about 500 grams, I think. And no, you still get a trial. The death sentence used to be mandatory in such cases, but the law was amended in 2012 such that the presiding judge could exercise discretion. Gay sex is illegal, but it is a law that is not enforced.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47380266]is all of this true? [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/absurd-laws-of-singapore-2012-6[/url]
because if so, I'm pretty glad I don't live in singapore
[editline]23rd March 2015[/editline]
is it true that carrying certain drugs (marijuana) can get you executed? I hear that 15 grams can get you executed by hanging without trial. And that gay sex is illegal.[/QUOTE]
No spitting or chewing gum?
I am totally fucked if I lived in Singapore. This keep everything [I]clean[/I] conservative mentality when taken too far is a little unnerving, I know it's a completely different culture but I love the freedom of being a disgusting freak once in a while.
Singapore is fucked up in a lot of ways but it's not exactly a repressive society.
People don't have Basic Civil Rights they have Basic Civil Rights Lite*
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47378831]So you're putting stability and economic prowess above human rights.[/QUOTE]
You know that there's a sliding scale where we can put things? Stability in many ways is a prerequisite for human rights.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;47378831] So you're putting stability and economic prowess above human rights.[/QUOTE]
You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;47381418]The limits are different for different drugs. Weed is about 500 grams, I think. And no, you still get a trial. The death sentence used to be mandatory in such cases, but the law was amended in 2012 such that the presiding judge could exercise discretion. Gay sex is illegal, but it is a law that is not enforced.[/QUOTE]
mostly because it's not a law that can ever be effectively enforced
[QUOTE=iAmaNewb;47382368]You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.[/QUOTE]
Again, agreeable somewhat, but questionable mentality towards your own government.
I believe the government should always adhere to and represent the people. And culture as well as morals should not be molded and enforced by the government or any leadership, but the population itself.
If everyone kept the mentality "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs." without questioning and analyzing WHAT eggs are being broken, that can pose a problem for any sort of leadership to break the WRONG eggs and the WRONG time.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47381897]No spitting or chewing gum?
I am totally fucked if I lived in Singapore. This keep everything [I]clean[/I] conservative mentality when taken too far is a little unnerving, I know it's a completely different culture but I love the freedom of being a disgusting freak once in a while.[/QUOTE]
The whole gum thing is blown out of proportion. No one gives a shit about gums anymore. The police barely care if you bring or chew them.
Let me put it this way, you have to come here to see it for yourself.
I've heard from people who have been there: it is absolutely clean and beautiful. You could lick the sidewalk.
[QUOTE=person11;47382911]I've heard from people who have been there: it is absolutely clean and beautiful. You could lick the sidewalk.[/QUOTE]
Metaphorically speaking. No one is gonna lick the damn sidewalk
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47381897]No spitting or chewing gum?
I am totally fucked if I lived in Singapore. This keep everything [I]clean[/I] conservative mentality when taken too far is a little unnerving, I know it's a completely different culture but I love the freedom of being a disgusting freak once in a while.[/QUOTE]
I swear to god even if Singapore was nuked people will still recall Singapore as "the place that banned chewing gum and incidentally got nuclear bombed that one time"
I'm afraid to say anything bad. I don't want to get jail time.
[QUOTE=poppyman;47380158]God, you make it sound like we're some dystopian nation ruled by big evil corporations.
I think most people see Singaporeans as being deprived of "basic human rights", but on the contrary I believe we have sacrificed a bit of political freedom in exchange for a great deal of social stability and standard of living. The restrictions to your rights aren't as oppressive as many make them out to be, and if you are a law-abiding citizen you'll live a comfortable life for the most part.
Singapore becoming an international powerhouse is in no small part due to the efforts of LKY, and I hope he rests in peace.[/QUOTE]
This is sort of how I feel about China too, everyone is saying how oppressive it is but in the 3 years I lived there it was perfectly fine.
[QUOTE=J!NX;47380266]is all of this true? [url]http://www.businessinsider.com/absurd-laws-of-singapore-2012-6[/url]
because if so, I'm pretty glad I don't live in singapore
[editline]23rd March 2015[/editline]
is it true that carrying certain drugs (marijuana) can get you executed? I hear that 15 grams can get you executed by hanging without trial. And that gay sex is illegal.[/QUOTE]
15 grams of weed CAN get you the death penalty but its HIGHLY unlikely. 500 grams carries a mandatory death penalty though. I personally support capital punishment but I don't really want to debate that here. And for god's sake, we may have draconian laws but there's always due process.
Sodomy is illegal because of the outdated British laws that we inherited from our colonial years, not because we as a society reject them. Several of my friends are gay, and in general Singaporeans are accepting towards LGBT. No one could care less what you do in the bedroom.
[editline]24th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=BenJammin';47382517]If everyone kept the mentality "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs." without questioning and analyzing WHAT eggs are being broken, that can pose a problem for any sort of leadership to break the WRONG eggs and the WRONG time.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with you, its not always possible to start a country with universal freedom regardless of your background. Singapore started incredibly diverse with immigrants from the world over, and part of the reason we tided through the racial turmoil was our suppression of dissenting opinions. I agree its morally grey and you kinda need a history class to understand why Singapore is where its at right now.
Hopefully with LKY's passing there will be reforms to our freedoms of expression
[QUOTE=Pyroknight;47383535]This is sort of how I feel about China too, everyone is saying how oppressive it is but in the 3 years I lived there it was perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
Clearly you didn't spend your time in a place like Xinjiang where it seems like the cultural revolution never died and the rest of the country hates you. Life is different outside the giant cities and in nongland.
Anyways, pretty mixed legacy this guy leaves behind as well as polarizing
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