Maddox Reviews Batman vs Superman: Dawn of just ass (spoilers, of course) - General

[video=youtube;SxBNlcf0AzI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxBNlcf0AzI[/video] (also, check out 5:10)

I liked it. It was retarded but I liked it.

Was going to mention the familiar name I spotted at the end.

To give him credit he came up with some criticisms I haven't heard before. Sadly I don't agree with them, there are bunch of other flaws to pick from.

[QUOTE=Marden;50026543]To give him credit he came up with some criticisms I haven't heard before. Sadly I don't agree with them, there are bunch of other flaws to pick from.[/QUOTE] Maddox always has really silly convoluted explanations for why things suck, but that's generally why they end up funny. I still need to watch the RedLetterMedia review for comparison, though.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;50026550]Maddox always has really silly convoluted explanations for why things suck, but that's generally why they end up funny. I still need to watch the RedLetterMedia review for comparison, though.[/QUOTE] this is pretty in line with what jay mike and rich say about the film its fuckin trash dudes, if any of you were thinking of wasting your cash to 'see if its good' please fuckin' dont, the last thing we need is -more- of these being made

It's not the Superman that's the problem. It's that Zack Snyder fucking hates Superman and what he stands for. After all, Zack is an objectivist and Superman shits all over that ideology.

[QUOTE=Damjen;50026637]After all, Zack is an objectivist and Superman shits all over that ideology.[/QUOTE] How so?

[QUOTE=Kljunas;50026747]How so?[/QUOTE] Because Objectivism assumes that everybody is selfish, while Superman's core is that he's selfless?

It was good as entertainment, but as an artistic work it wasn't so good (if that makes sense). The plot went all over the place and there were too many cringeworthy moments. Also, I know that other portrayals of Batman have killed people, even Nolan's Batman, but it really irked me how Snyder's Batman seemed to kill almost gratuitously.

The stuff he mentioned in this video is nothing compared to what actually made it a bad movie, like the fundamentals of movie making.

[QUOTE=sb27;50026789]It was good as entertainment, but as an artistic work it wasn't so good (if that makes sense). The plot went all over the place and there were too many cringeworthy moments. Also, I know that other portrayals of Batman have killed people, even Nolan's Batman, but it really irked me how Snyder's Batman seemed to kill almost gratuitously.[/QUOTE] I found myself remarking to friends at a couple points that we were going to get a few more counts of batmurder at certain scenes.

Not critically good, but entertaining. People are really getting salty over this film more then it probably deserves. It's a mess, but not first-degree murder to a franchise.

You knew it was going to be a shit movie from the moment it had superman in it. Superman is like fantastic four, spiderman, and green lantern. He's a franchise that has more or less become intrinsically linked to terrible movies.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50029072]You knew it was going to be a shit movie from the moment it had superman in it. Superman is like fantastic four,[b] spider(hyphen)man, [/b]and green lantern. He's a franchise that has more or less become intrinsically linked to terrible movies.[/QUOTE] Hey, what now. Spider-Man 3, in comparison to any of those others, is like citizen kane. And as bad as TASM 2 could get, Spidey was still Spidey. Also Civil War is probably going to be good.

Some of his criticisms are kind of shit though. Now don't get me wrong, this is a really stupid movie that deserves A LOT of criticism but the shit he bitches about is just stupid. Batman looks chunky? Cause they based him on the Dark Knight Returns version of Batman. Alfred is too handsome? I don't even know what to say to that. Batman is too good at being Batman. Nah, man. You didn't even mention the dream sequences, Lex Luther being insane, or Batman/Supes becoming friends for literally no reason.

Alfred is supposed to have raised Bruce from a child, since his parents were killed. This Alfred doesn't look more than 10 years older than Bruce...

Really don't get the argument people bitching about Batman killing people. Its simple the death of robin at the hands of joker pushes him over the edge for a more merciless way of dealing with criminals.

[QUOTE=Source;50036143]Really don't get the argument people bitching about Batman killing people. Its simple the death of robin at the hands of joker pushes him over the edge for a more merciless way of dealing with criminals.[/QUOTE] You can make Batman edgy without having him kill people. Look at The Dark Knight Returns. A Batman who has decided to start killing people is a Batman who has become the villain. It may have been more acceptable back when people didn't widely know that about Batman (back during the Tim Burton / Joel Schumacher films) but now people are so familiar with that aspect of Batman that you can't really take it away from him.

The way I interpreted it in the film was that Batman wasn't outright killing people out of anger or vengeance, he was just doing it because that was the easiest way. This is a Batman who has seen everything good except for him crumble. So he will beat up punks when he has the drop on them but if one of them pulls a grenade he isn't going to worry about saving that guy if it's inconvenient. Same with the batmobile scene, only with the extra motivation that the thing he is chasing is literally (in his view) the only thing capable of saving the planet.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50036224]You can make Batman edgy without having him kill people. Look at The Dark Knight Returns. A Batman who has decided to start killing people is a Batman who has become the villain. It may have been more acceptable back when people didn't widely know that about Batman (back during the Tim Burton / Joel Schumacher films) but now people are so familiar with that aspect of Batman that you can't really take it away from him.[/QUOTE] I'll get shit on for this, but fuck it. Batman killing people made perfect sense. This is a batman who came back to the cowl after watching Metropolis be destroyed, and watching his own people die. He didn't operate for the whole length of time he was in Gotham, he quit after the events that caused Robin(presumably Jason Todd) to die. He seemingly hung up the cape after all that. Then the city is destroyed, and in his mind, the rules have changed. He's going to have to change to deal with the rules having changed. He sees a god like being walking around on earth and he's no longer super concerned with the lives of those who are willing to put their lives at risk trying to kill him. He drops his age old rule, because the rules have changed. He goes back to this after the events of the film show him that he has to be better than that. Honestly people are free to hate the movie all they want, it wasn't amazing or great even, but people are full well ready to forget that every film incarnation of Batman, has killed. Every. One. Suddenly Batfleck and this film are the straw that breaks the camels back because subtlety, as a concept, died in this film. I feel like people are way, way over focused on this one aspect of the film, and are intentionally ignoring any of the films own justifications for it because "it was a bad movie everything sucks forget context".

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50036578]I'll get shit on for this, but fuck it. Batman killing people made perfect sense. This is a batman who came back to the cowl after watching Metropolis be destroyed, and watching his own people die. He didn't operate for the whole length of time he was in Gotham, he quit after the events that caused Robin(presumably Jason Todd) to die. He seemingly hung up the cape after all that. Then the city is destroyed, and in his mind, the rules have changed. He's going to have to change to deal with the rules having changed. He sees a god like being walking around on earth and he's no longer super concerned with the lives of those who are willing to put their lives at risk trying to kill him. He drops his age old rule, because the rules have changed. He goes back to this after the events of the film show him that he has to be better than that. Honestly people are free to hate the movie all they want, it wasn't amazing or great even, but people are full well ready to forget that every film incarnation of Batman, has killed. Every. One. Suddenly Batfleck and this film are the straw that breaks the camels back because subtlety, as a concept, died in this film. I feel like people are way, way over focused on this one aspect of the film, and are intentionally ignoring any of the films own justifications for it because "it was a bad movie everything sucks forget context".[/QUOTE] When did the film elaborate on him hanging up the cape at any point? If you're using The Dark Knight Returns comic as a point of reference you're doing it wrong because this movie ignored that arguably perfect story completely. This movie is a tragedy on many levels and I'd be fine with Batman killing people if (just like every other fucking character) he had plenty of justification and motivation. Intending to kill Superman after 2 years of built-up rage/hatred makes sense but for him to be killing folk left and right? We have no prior point of reference just speculation and you can't say there was any subtle between-the-lines delivery of why he's killing people when his legacy is built on the fact he doesn't kill criminals. I'm not saying they needed him to outright say "I'm not bothered about saving people" but we need to see him go through an actual change through the course of the movie wherein he does get ruthless. Also if he wasn't so concerned with killing people then why leave that one guy that he branded or the few others alive?

[QUOTE=spekter;50036813]When did the film elaborate on him hanging up the cape at any point? If you're using The Dark Knight Returns comic as a point of reference you're doing it wrong because this movie ignored that arguably perfect story completely. This movie is a tragedy on many levels and I'd be fine with Batman killing people if (just like every other fucking character) he had plenty of justification and motivation. Intending to kill Superman after 2 years of built-up rage/hatred makes sense but for him to be killing folk left and right? We have no prior point of reference just speculation and you can't say there was any subtle between-the-lines delivery of why he's killing people when his legacy is built on the fact he doesn't kill criminals. I'm not saying they needed him to outright say "I'm not bothered about saving people" but we need to see him go through an actual change through the course of the movie wherein he does get ruthless. Also if he wasn't so concerned with killing people then why leave that one guy that he branded or the few others alive?[/QUOTE] There was no mention of him having been Batman for the recent years. If you're just going to assume "He was batman the whole time always murdering people" then that's equally, if not more baseless than my claim [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] And the way Batman becomes a possible article for the Daily Planet kind of gives it away as well. If he had been doing this for literally years, then why would you write an article about it like it was a new thing? We can shit on the movie for a lot of things, but I think it justified it pretty well, better than many people give it credit for. The funny thing is, if I go talk to a person on the street or at work about this movie(Which I have done) they sound pretty pleased about the movie, and that they enjoyed it. And before you go "But those people don't know comics" you'd be wrong because of the lengthy comic book conversations we had inspired by the film. But I go on the internet, and finding even one person to go "It wasn't awful" is a stretch. It's weird how polarized(or not polarized as it were) real life is compared to the internet.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50036878]There was no mention of him having been Batman for the recent years. If you're just going to assume "He was batman the whole time always murdering people" then that's equally, if not more baseless than my claim [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] And the way Batman becomes a possible article for the Daily Planet kind of gives it away as well. If he had been doing this for literally years, then why would you write an article about it like it was a new thing? We can shit on the movie for a lot of things, but I think it justified it pretty well, better than many people give it credit for. The funny thing is, if I go talk to a person on the street or at work about this movie(Which I have done) they sound pretty pleased about the movie, and that they enjoyed it. And before you go "But those people don't know comics" you'd be wrong because of the lengthy comic book conversations we had inspired by the film. But I go on the internet, and finding even one person to go "It wasn't awful" is a stretch. It's weird how polarized(or not polarized as it were) real life is compared to the internet.[/QUOTE] The majority find it quite easy to ignore shortcomings when there's big flashy shit going on. People barely take notice of the fuck ups because they want to see Batman knocking the shit out of Superman and vice versa. Primary example being the Transformers movies. They make a buttload of money but they're complete trash with no substance and big effects. Personally I'm just annoyed at how rushed this was. It feels like it was barely put together which is true, they've been wanting to get this started for ages and seeing Marvel rake in that Avengers money, DC wanted to cash out while they still could.

[QUOTE=spekter;50036947]The majority find it quite easy to ignore shortcomings when there's big flashy shit going on. People barely take notice of the fuck ups because they want to see Batman knocking the shit out of Superman and vice versa. Primary example being the Transformers movies. They make a buttload of money but they're complete trash with no substance and big effects.[/QUOTE] Okay I know audiences are all dumb fuck shit lords and we're the people on the internet that know better but this is a fucking ludicrious line of thinking. So, the guy I talked to for a half hour, went into detailed comic book conversations with just isn't informed enough to be allowed to disagree without being told that opinion is just wrong? There's reasoning as to why things are the way they are. I enjoyed the film even if it's lacking, but I see people just ignoring everything to shit on the film actively like internet conversations are wildly more informed or intelligible than the alternative.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50036967]Okay I know audiences are all dumb fuck shit lords and we're the people on the internet that know better but this is a fucking ludicrious line of thinking. So, the guy I talked to for a half hour, went into detailed comic book conversations with just isn't informed enough to be allowed to disagree without being told that opinion is just wrong? There's reasoning as to why things are the way they are. I enjoyed the film even if it's lacking, but I see people just ignoring everything to shit on the film actively like internet conversations are wildly more informed or intelligible than the alternative.[/QUOTE] Majority of my life has been spent studying the art of film making and my frustrations are barely aimed at the "comic book adaptation" aspect more that as a film and especially as in regards to the script, it fell extremely short when it had plenty of good source material to work from. There's basic storytelling fuckups in there that any fresh writer on the scene wouldn't make. I'm not saying this movie is devoid of good aspects, every movie in some fashion has something worth taking from it but the blunders are so heavy handed and easily avoidable a lot of people are genuinely baffled as to how they'd slip up.

[QUOTE=spekter;50036991]Majority of my life has been spent studying the art of film making and my frustrations are barely aimed at the "comic book adaptation" aspect more that as a film and especially as in regards to the script, it fell extremely short when it had plenty of good source material to work from. There's basic storytelling fuckups in there that any fresh writer on the scene wouldn't make. I'm not saying this movie is devoid of good aspects, every movie in some fashion has something worth taking from it but the blunders are so heavy handed and easily avoidable a lot of people are genuinely baffled as to how they'd slip up.[/QUOTE] I made films for several years, and worked in the film industry for a couple as well. Even so, I enjoyed the film because opinions allow for that. If it really was the case that a "fresh on the scene writer" wouldn't make these errors then why do storied writers with a lengthy history still make these errors? I just want to understand. People are shitting on the film for the pettiest of reasons. There's plenty wrong with it, I hate that I have to keep repeating that, but defending it makes people shrivel up and refuse to listen.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50037069]I made films for several years, and worked in the film industry for a couple as well. Even so, I enjoyed the film because opinions allow for that. If it really was the case that a "fresh on the scene writer" wouldn't make these errors then why do storied writers with a lengthy history still make these errors? I just want to understand. People are shitting on the film for the pettiest of reasons. There's plenty wrong with it, I hate that I have to keep repeating that, but defending it makes people shrivel up and refuse to listen.[/QUOTE] Well you should know there's more than one person guiding the pen most of the time especially on a movie this big so I guess I'd put some blame on multiple folk. Goyer's history as of late shows his competency has been dipping though. Being a writer at that level takes a toll especially when your creative freedom can be restricted depending on who says and what the project is. I'm not asking you or anyone to actively hate this movie I'm just wondering why there's a sudden hostile attitude being generated to the point where people who criticize it are being directly told to stop. It's highly anticipated and it had a lot riding on it so of course people are going to be upset when it falters.

[QUOTE=spekter;50037136]Well you should know there's more than one person guiding the pen most of the time especially on a movie this big so I guess I'd put some blame on multiple folk. Goyer's history as of late shows his competency has been dipping though. Being a writer at that level takes a toll especially when your creative freedom can be restricted depending on who says and what the project is. I'm not asking you or anyone to actively hate this movie I'm just wondering why there's a sudden hostile attitude being generated to the point where people who criticize it are being directly told to stop. It's highly anticipated and it had a lot riding on it so of course people are going to be upset when it falters.[/QUOTE] It's not that people can't criticize it. It's that the level of criticism is ridiculous. I go to any of the sites that I read, and all of them have articles up on how this is one of the worst films in comic book history, that everything is wrong, that nothing anyone has to say about it is positive, etc. It's fucking ridiculous. Yeah, this was a massively anticipated film that people hyped up way too much but is it really, that bad? No. It wasn't F4ntastic levels of bad. It was filled with plot holes and inconsistencies and it was a busy mess. Was it half the things I've read about it? Fuck no. I've read so many reviews, and recaps of that film by now that I just feel are so filled with disingenuous bullshit that I'm tired of it. It's a bad movie but it's not even 1/4 as bad as the hyperbolic bullshit I see toted out seemingly every 5 minutes of late. I mean just the simple fact that Batman kills in this movie(even though he does in every other fucking movie) is so contentious that people flat out refuse to have conversations or accept that the film had any reasoning for it. Everyone just jumps on it to say everything about every aspect of it is wrong and nothing is defensible. So yes, I'm going to reply with seemingly "hostile"(Because just being vocal and opposing the general group think makes something hostile these days) defenses of the film when people are going to exaggerated lengths to shit on it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50037323]It's not that people can't criticize it. It's that the level of criticism is ridiculous. I go to any of the sites that I read, and all of them have articles up on how this is one of the worst films in comic book history, that everything is wrong, that nothing anyone has to say about it is positive, etc. It's fucking ridiculous. Yeah, this was a massively anticipated film that people hyped up way too much but is it really, that bad? No. It wasn't F4ntastic levels of bad. It was filled with plot holes and inconsistencies and it was a busy mess. Was it half the things I've read about it? Fuck no. I've read so many reviews, and recaps of that film by now that I just feel are so filled with disingenuous bullshit that I'm tired of it. It's a bad movie but it's not even 1/4 as bad as the hyperbolic bullshit I see toted out seemingly every 5 minutes of late. I mean just the simple fact that Batman kills in this movie(even though he does in every other fucking movie) is so contentious that people flat out refuse to have conversations or accept that the film had any reasoning for it. Everyone just jumps on it to say everything about every aspect of it is wrong and nothing is defensible. So yes, I'm going to reply with seemingly "hostile"(Because just being vocal and opposing the general group think makes something hostile these days) defenses of the film when people are going to exaggerated lengths to shit on it.[/QUOTE] I do agree people are being way too harsh at times but a lot of people defending the movie in my experience have reached the point where even constructive criticism is being pushed aside with the "lol this movie is shit" level criticism. I outright got told on social media, despite after highlighting both good and bad points in-depth, to just shut up and that I was trying too hard to hate it. I'm seeing the same reactions everywhere. And yes no matter what, nothing comes close to the shitshow that Fantastic Four was.