VW to release e-Golf with up to 186 NEDC (125 EPA) miles range
16 replies, posted
[QUOTE]There’s been some confusion about the imminent upgrade to Volkswagen’s all-electric e-Golf versus its next generation expected to be available by the end of the decade. Dr. Volkmar Tanneberger, Head of Electric Vehicle Development at VW, cleared up some of the confusion this weekend during a press meeting for the Formula E race in Berlin.
The executive confirmed that the 2017 e-Golf will receive a battery upgrade by the end of the year and that it will allow for an NEDC rated range of 300 km (186 miles) on a single charge.
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The new pack will have a 35.8 kWh capacity – up from 24.2 kWh and even beating BMW’s recent upgrade for the i3 with 33 kWh. The i3’s new top of the line range is now “up to 114 miles”.
Dr. Tanneberger also added that VW will only offer the new pack, unlike Nissan and BMW who kept their old battery packs as less-expensive options for customers. The e-Golf motor will also get a power increase from 100 kW to 120 kW, still according to the exec.
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[URL="http://electrek.co/2016/05/23/2017-vw-e-golf-186-miles-range/"]Source[/URL]
A good step forward for VW but it feels like another compliance car with only 125 EPA rated miles range. For those uninformed on the range standards the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_Cycle#Test_procedure"]NEDC (New European Driving Cycle)[/URL] is the European standard designed to measure both range of an EV and emissions from a regular car. The EPA range is the US standard, which is generally much more accurate and is worked out by running several tests until battery depletion, measuring the energy drawn from the battery between each test, and then charging the battery from depletion and measuring the energy required to fully charge the battery. The difference between the two can be quite substantial, for example Tesla's Model S 90D gets a 346 NEDC rated mile range, while the US version is rated at only 294 miles.
I still don't understand why the NEDC ratings are so wildly inaccurate. As in, I get 'why' it's off in that the way things are measured are nonsensically stupid, I just don't understand 'why' they use such a strange and objectively terrible set of metrics.
More on topic, I didn't see anything listed, but what types of power can this vehicle accept? Charge rates? I don't see any mention of revamps to enable faster charging.
Why don't electric cars contain a small powerplant, such as a turbine, to just charge the batteries, or extend its range? You don't need a 100+ hp motor to charge the batteries. Hybrids all have engines but they're part of the drivetrain, not just a dedicated charge source. Surely a small displacement multifuel motor (250-500cc) could be enough to charge the batteries when the car is parked, or extend the vehicle's battery range (as the motor can probably not sustain enough electrical output to drive the car, but slow the rate of discharge).
[QUOTE=Amplar;50379235]Why don't electric cars contain a small powerplant, such as a turbine, to just charge the batteries, or extend its range? You don't need a 100+ hp motor to charge the batteries. Hybrids all have engines but they're part of the drivetrain, not just a dedicated charge source. Surely a small displacement multifuel motor (250-500cc) could be enough to charge the batteries when the car is parked, or extend the vehicle's battery range (as the motor can probably not sustain enough electrical output to drive the car, but slow the rate of discharge).[/QUOTE]
Hard to be an electric vehicle when you have an ICE
[QUOTE=Amplar;50379235]Why don't electric cars contain a small powerplant, such as a turbine, to just charge the batteries, or extend its range?[/B] You don't need a 100+ hp motor to charge the batteries. Hybrids all have engines but they're part of the drivetrain, not just a dedicated charge source. Surely a small displacement multifuel motor (250-500cc) could be enough to charge the batteries when the car is parked, or extend the vehicle's battery range (as the motor can probably not sustain enough electrical output to drive the car, but slow the rate of discharge).[/QUOTE]
Have you not heard of the Chevy Volt? Its probably one of the more popular electrics because it does exactly this, and looks like a normal car.
[quote]The Volt operates as a pure battery electric vehicle until its battery capacity drops to a predetermined threshold from full charge. From there its internal combustion engine powers an electric generator to extend the vehicle's range as needed.[/quote]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt[/url]
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
the problem is that it's actually not [I]that[/I] efficient in the ICE charging mode, something like 42 mpgs. 42 certainly isnt bad, but if you plan on driving out of the ~53 mile all-electric range fairly frequently, and for long durations, you're better off with something like a Prius.
[QUOTE=Amplar;50379235]Why don't electric cars contain a small powerplant, such as a turbine, to just charge the batteries, or extend its range? You don't need a 100+ hp motor to charge the batteries. Hybrids all have engines but they're part of the drivetrain, not just a dedicated charge source. Surely a small displacement multifuel motor (250-500cc) could be enough to charge the batteries when the car is parked, or extend the vehicle's battery range (as the motor can probably not sustain enough electrical output to drive the car, but slow the rate of discharge).[/QUOTE]
They're called Plug-in Hybrids. Like the aforementioned Volt, or the now dead Fisker Karma.
I don't like Hybrids because they feel like a half measure to me. Unless you need it like a diesel electric locomotive or something. Ideally, you don't need combustion.
[QUOTE=OvB;50379323]They're called Plug-in Hybrids. Like the aforementioned Volt, or the now dead Fisker Karma.[/QUOTE]
Apparently the new Prius plug-ins are actually capable of ~65mph on all-electric mode now, so I would even count those.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50379228]I still don't understand why the NEDC ratings are so wildly inaccurate. As in, I get 'why' it's off in that the way things are measured are nonsensically stupid, I just don't understand 'why' they use such a strange and objectively terrible set of metrics.
More on topic, I didn't see anything listed, but what types of power can this vehicle accept? Charge rates? I don't see any mention of revamps to enable faster charging.[/QUOTE]
I think it's probably because no one has bothered to update it since 1997, so nothing specific to EVs has really been done. I expect that will probably change in the next few years and they will use a system similar to that of the US standard.
I expect that VW won't really do anything with charging. It has a 2.3kW onboard AC charger and can DC charge via CCS chargers at 50kW. I think it will be a few years before the traditional manufacturers get that they got beat to the punch on charging by Tesla with the Supercharger network. IMO the Supercharger network is what makes an EV a viable alternative to a ICE. Superchargers charge at about ~120kW right now, and Tesla are working to improve that.
[QUOTE=Amplar;50379235]Why don't electric cars contain a small powerplant, such as a turbine, to just charge the batteries, or extend its range? You don't need a 100+ hp motor to charge the batteries. Hybrids all have engines but they're part of the drivetrain, not just a dedicated charge source. Surely a small displacement multifuel motor (250-500cc) could be enough to charge the batteries when the car is parked, or extend the vehicle's battery range (as the motor can probably not sustain enough electrical output to drive the car, but slow the rate of discharge).[/QUOTE]
The BMW i3 has a range extender as an option that can add about ~50 miles or so to the range of the car. Problem is that it also adds a significant amount of weight to the car, slowing the acceleration by a fairly noticeable amount. A decent EV doesn't really need a range extender IMO and the cons outweigh the pros.
[QUOTE=OvB;50379323]They're called Plug-in Hybrids. Like the aforementioned Volt, or the now dead Fisker Karma.
I don't like Hybrids because they feel like a half measure to me. Unless you need it like a diesel electric locomotive or something. Ideally, you don't need combustion.[/QUOTE]
The problem with hybrids is that you sacrifice all the good drivetrain benefits of pure EVs. Don't get me wrong, toyota certainly lives up to it's reputation for long term reliability with the prius, and even their other offerings like the camry and various lexus lineups with hybrid drive trains are doing well. It's just not as good as a pure EV system, and the drive shaft puts severe physical limitations on the design of the car, namely the battery location.
Things in the diesel electric style let you go with a full EV drive train, meaning the cheap AWD, simple and effective traction control, torque sleep, etc.
[QUOTE=Amplar;50379235]Why don't electric cars contain a small powerplant, such as a turbine, to just charge the batteries, or extend its range? You don't need a 100+ hp motor to charge the batteries. Hybrids all have engines but they're part of the drivetrain, not just a dedicated charge source. Surely a small displacement multifuel motor (250-500cc) could be enough to charge the batteries when the car is parked, or extend the vehicle's battery range (as the motor can probably not sustain enough electrical output to drive the car, but slow the rate of discharge).[/QUOTE]
Those are hybrids. Electric primary hybrids are a thing, like the chevy volt
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50379228][B]I still don't understand why the NEDC ratings are so wildly inaccurate.[/B] As in, I get 'why' it's off in that the way things are measured are nonsensically stupid, I just don't understand 'why' they use such a strange and objectively terrible set of metrics.
More on topic, I didn't see anything listed, but what types of power can this vehicle accept? Charge rates? I don't see any mention of revamps to enable faster charging.[/QUOTE]
its so their cars look better. "oh wow i can get 250 miles on one charge from this slapped together electric conversion! (or w/e that is in metric) when we in america are pretty much stuck at the two tiered, 100-150 miles and 300 mile cars
Tesla kind of proved that converting a gas car to electric isn't the right move to get maximum range, a scratch design is what is needed to give as much room as possible for batteries
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;50379288][B]Have you not heard of the Chevy Volt? Its probably one of the more popular electrics because it does exactly this, and looks like a normal car.
[/B]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt[/url]
[editline]23rd May 2016[/editline]
the problem is that it's actually not [I]that[/I] efficient in the ICE charging mode, something like 42 mpgs. 42 certainly isnt bad, but if you plan on driving out of the ~53 mile all-electric range fairly frequently, and for long durations, you're better off with something like a Prius.[/QUOTE]
the volt doesn't look like a normal car?
it still has traces of "uh we have to design our electric cars to look dumb"
Normal cars look pretty dumb too these days.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KYQxZXDoMB0/VjIXTRKDZRI/AAAAAAAAVFw/YWow_4qi0dM/s1600/Lexus-00.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;50380621]the volt doesn't look like a normal car?
it still has traces of "uh we have to design our electric cars to look dumb"[/QUOTE]
its a little better than the bolt, which screams "i'm the plastic future of the 2020s!" but at least the thing is supposed to be feature loaded when it launches this year
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50380940]Normal cars look pretty dumb too these days.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KYQxZXDoMB0/VjIXTRKDZRI/AAAAAAAAVFw/YWow_4qi0dM/s1600/Lexus-00.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I believe that's a concept car, which those always have exaggerated looks.
[QUOTE=DuCT;50381259]I believe that's a concept car, which those always have exaggerated looks.[/QUOTE]
Regardless the electric cars seem to all look very similar and really damn ugly except perhaps some of the hybrids. The bmw i3 is probably the dumbest looking far I've ever seen.
maybe it's a specific ploy to stop people buying electric cars
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