• Trump Releases 7-Point Healthcare Reform Plan
    42 replies, posted
A few news organizations are commenting on it now but the most direct source is from Trump's official website. I've bolded the most interesting parts: [quote=Trump] 1) Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to. 2) Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. [B]As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state.[/B] By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up. 3) Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it. 4) Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. [B]These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. [/B]These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. [B]These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. [/B]The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate. 5) [B]Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure. [/B] 6) Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources. 7) Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers. [/quote] [URL]https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform[/URL]
What the hell is up for #4? "Everyone should get insurance but even with insurance it's expensive so you should also have a special savings account to pay your deductible". That sounds like rich-person-who's-never-lived-in-the-real-world logic. #5 sounds good, but it's hard to shop around for emergency services. This might actually help but it won't do nearly as much as free-market theory says it should. #7 is solving the wrong problem. The requirements for getting drug approval are already pretty low - the problem is that the FDA doesn't have enough funding to process all the applications they've been getting. If you're bringing a drug over from Europe, the problem usually isn't "it gets denied" but "by the time it's approved the patent is halfway to expiration". (Bringing drugs over from some countries is more problematic - eg. Japan doesn't require efficacy testing, you just need to prove it's not dangerous. US and most EU countries require proven efficacy for approval.) The solution is not "get rid of regulations" but "give the regulator enough money to do their job". Saying we should "remove barriers to entry" is like getting rid of driving tests when you could just give the DMV enough money to hire more people.
US is strange. Your healthcare isn't free but you want to make not purchasing it illegal? You either go free and everyone gets it or go paid and people who can't afford it aren't breaking the law.
HSA's seem like a terrible idea. What if you're fucked with a family history of illness and you don't make much money to begin with? State single-payer system or bust.
I still don't get the logic behind repealing obamacare. 21 million people will lose coverage just to get back at obummer???
[QUOTE=joshuadim;49971752]I still don't get the logic behind repealing obamacare. 21 million people will lose coverage just to get back at obummer???[/QUOTE] They know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing which just makes it fucking despicable and shameful. Sure the ACA isn't a fucking walk in the park, but at least coverage has been increased. We should be working on fixing the living FUCK out of it, not repealing it so that senators and lobbyists can receive kickbacks from insurance companies/big pharma while working class Americans receive the short end of the stick.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;49971752]I still don't get the logic behind repealing obamacare. 21 million people will lose coverage just to get back at obummer???[/QUOTE] Only way to get the insurance companies' lobbyists behind it. They'll lose a good deal of business if the individual mandate goes away, only way to make up for that is to also get rid of the no-denying-preexisting-conditions requirements and so on. And since the conservatives have decided they have philosophical objections to the individual mandate (despite it being [I]their fucking idea[/I]), they have to ditch the whole Obamacare act. Even then, I suspect the insurance companies might try to protect Obamacare... it was a truly brilliant win/win act. It helped the people, it helped the insurance companies, and I believe it even helped the actual healthcare industry. It's not perfect, and could easily be improved on, but it actually deserves some respect for how few downsides it actually had. (Which probably says more about how horrible our previous system was than about how good Obamacare itself is, but that's for another time).
[QUOTE=Solomon;49971777]They know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing which just makes it fucking despicable and shameful. Sure the ACA isn't a fucking walk in the park, but at least coverage has been increased. [/quote] Ok this is only half the story though, ACA increases costs of most families by a lot (mine included), we didn't get to keep our doctors, we didn't get to keep our plans. 3 major things that Obama promised yet went back on. [quote]We should be working on fixing the living FUCK out of it, not repealing it so that senators and lobbyists can receive kickbacks from insurance companies/big pharma.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure how repealing ACA would help insurance companies and big pharma, it's against the law to not be insured under ACA or else you get fined that increases their market size.
this is what healthcare looks like to a free-market fundamentalist
Hey more insurance based healthcare! Because that works well enough already. I'm not seeing any consumer protections or anything that would on its face make insurance cheaper, cable companies are already allowed to compete but they don't, insurance companies with their health networks are the same thing Just tossing more Medicare funds at the States is a quick way to bankrupt the program itself, the ACA only used Medicare funds initially, but by 2020 all the States have to fund the majority of their programs on their own
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49971704]State single-payer system or bust.[/QUOTE] Evidently Americans don't want that. So this is the alternative.
what's the standards for "safe and reliable" exactly like, "doesn't give you a heart attack"? sounds like he's trying to really lower FDA standards, I cannot see that being a good thing in any capacity letting shitty drug companies do whatever they want is the absolute last thing america should do
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49971704]HSA's seem like a terrible idea. What if you're fucked with a family history of illness and you don't make much money to begin with? State single-payer system or bust.[/QUOTE] HSA's are not required, they are an option. I have an HSA and it's cheap as shit. Instead of paying $80 or whatever bi-weekly, I pay $12 and put $20 towards my HSA that is matched by my employer and is tax free. I go to the doctor maybe once a year for a physical and charge the $100-$300 to my HSA. If I get into a once in a lifetime major accident I still have a $3000 deductible that is completely reasonable in that case and I would use the $1500 I have saved up towards it. AND, I can use my HSA for prescriptions, glasses, etc. all tax free. I am 24.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;49971680]US is strange. Your healthcare isn't free but you want to make not purchasing it illegal? You either go free and everyone gets it or go paid and people who can't afford it aren't breaking the law.[/QUOTE] Obama made an enormous mistake by heeding Republican demands when working out the ACA, they got almost everything they wanted then not a single Republican supported it, and they've spent the last 6 years attacking it. He should have gone all the way instead of compromise
A problem with the cost of healthcare isn't in free market or a socialized system, it's how the care is delivered. ACA won't fix this, here is a article on why our costs keep going up. [URL]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/seven-factors-driving-your-health-care-costs/[/URL] ACA tried to help everyone by forcing them to buy insurance, they forced a demand which made prices go up and some people like toaster468 and my uncle lost their coverage because it didn't meet ACA standards and in the case of my uncle he got less coverage. A one size fits all doesn't work. We lack information on some care procedures and are always demanding the newest treatments. It's not a matter of insurance but with how the healthcare is provided and delivered.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49971704]HSA's seem like a terrible idea. What if you're fucked with a family history of illness and you don't make much money to begin with? State single-payer system or bust.[/QUOTE] HSA are actually not a bad idea, except for the guy in the last one of these threads who insisted it's all he needed, if you manage it right it should cover doctors visits, health supplies, and probably a lot of regular prescriptions. It isnt insurance and should not be seen as such but it's basically a medical debit card, which allows you to avoid going through insurance paperwork for common things
[QUOTE]1) Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to. [/QUOTE] The individual mandate is considered bad across the aisle but there are parts of the ACA that are wildly popular, such as the coverage for people with per-existing conditions. Additionally repealing Obamacare without instituting a similar system or single-payer will leave tens of millions of Americans in the cold regarding health coverage and literally kill people yearly until such a stipulation is reintroduced. [QUOTE]2) Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. [B]As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state.[/B] By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.[/QUOTE] There is already competition in the market. All this does is allow companies to base themselves in states with low regulations and taxes then provide insurance to people on other states. Very transparent attempt to give more power to insurance providers. [QUOTE]3) Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.[/QUOTE] I don't see a problem with this at face value but it wouldn't affect the majority of American's who don't make enough on tax returns to deducted their payments. [QUOTE]4) Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. [B]These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. [/B]These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. [B]These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. [/B]The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.[/QUOTE] Sure. I don't see why a death penalty exists in the first place. [QUOTE]5) [B]Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure. [/B][/QUOTE] Don't see a problem with this either [QUOTE]6) Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.[/QUOTE] This is just a flat cut to Medicaid that would drastically reduce the amount of people with coverage. [QUOTE]7) Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.[/QUOTE] I don't understand this one at all. He wants to deregulate drug providers but sells it as making Congress step away from special interests? How are they working with drug providers by making it more difficult for them to sell their products without oversight?
[QUOTE=Smoot;49971892]HSA's are not required, they are an option. I have an HSA and it's cheap as shit. Instead of paying $80 or whatever bi-weekly, I pay $12 and put $20 towards my HSA that is matched by my employer and is tax free. I go to the doctor maybe once a year for a physical and charge the $100-$300 to my HSA. If I get into a once in a lifetime major accident I still have a $3000 deductible that is completely reasonable in that case and I would use the $1500 I have saved up towards it. AND, I can use my HSA for prescriptions, glasses, etc. all tax free. I am 24.[/QUOTE] cool that should just about cover half of an appendectomy not counting the hospital costs [editline]20th March 2016[/editline] or anesthesia
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49971985]cool that should just about cover half of an appendectomy not counting the hospital costs [editline]20th March 2016[/editline] or anesthesia[/QUOTE] who needs anesthesia or being free from worrying about your health when you live in FREEDOM
The "Death" tax (Estate tax) only effects very very rich people. It's an overblown controversy that doesn't effect the average American and those who it does effect, it doesn't have a major impact on the lives of them or their heirs. There's no reason to get rid of it. It's amazing how Republicans can get working class citizens to vote against their interests time and time again, in every other country the working class votes for the likes of Christian Democrats or Social Democrats.
Is this a shot gun approach to health care? Just put a bit of every plan in from all the other republicans, gut a bit of everything in place, and just hope it all works? I feel like this is a pretty mediocre plan.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;49971680]US is strange. Your healthcare isn't free but you want to make not purchasing it illegal? You either go free and everyone gets it or go paid and people who can't afford it aren't breaking the law.[/QUOTE] That middle approach is how it works in the Netherlands, though. You are required to have health insurance as a Dutch citizen. Insurance companies are required by law to provide a basic, affordable package that covers shit like hospital costs, doctor visits, etc. However, If a person has trouble paying the premiums, the government will help pay them. It is also illegal for insurance companies to refuse an application. The government does pay entirely for people who need long term care, like people with disabilities. It is a pretty unusual system indeed
[QUOTE=GarbageCan;49972034]The "Death" tax (Estate tax) only effects very very rich people. It's an overblown controversy that doesn't effect the average American and those who it does effect, it doesn't have a major impact on the lives of them or their heirs. There's no reason to get rid of it. It's amazing how Republicans can get working class citizens to vote against their interests time and time again, in every other country the working class votes for the likes of Christian Democrats or Social Democrats.[/QUOTE] No, in NJ the estate tax is low enough it's forcing middle class retirees out of the state and sending them to Florida. Right now it's set at $675,000 which isn't hard to reach as it takes into account not just your home but your possessions such as savings and retirement funds making it easy to get hit by it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49972046]Is this a shot gun approach to health care? Just put a bit of every plan in from all the other republicans, gut a bit of everything in place, and just hope it all works? I feel like this is a pretty mediocre plan.[/QUOTE] Shut up you socialist this will make America great again!!!
[QUOTE=joshuadim;49972309]Shut up you socialist this will make America great again!!![/QUOTE] It will make anime great again! What's sad is nobody on the campaign trail will call out this bullshit
Yeah, I'll stick with Bernie's, thanks.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49972416]It will make anime great again! What's sad is nobody on the campaign trail will call out this bullshit[/QUOTE] Hillary can slam him for being against the better parts of the ACA but it's going to be a hand grenade for her because we know she gets money from health insurance companies and supports the mandate.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;49971635]What the hell is up for #4? "Everyone should get insurance but even with insurance it's expensive so you should also have a special savings account to pay your deductible". That sounds like rich-person-who's-never-lived-in-the-real-world logic.[/QUOTE] ...do you not know what an HSA is? It's something traditionally only offered as a benefit for employees of companies, not something individuals can get. It allows you to take a pre-tax deduction from your pay (like 401k contributions) and it goes into an invested account where it can earn interest and grow, similar to a 401k, while being sheltered from taxation. If the need arises, you can deduct money from your HSA to pay for medical procedures that aren't fully covered by your insurance or to cover the cost of the deductible. While it may sound like a "lazy man's rainy day fund" it's a lot more than that because just like a 401k not only is it completely untaxed (so you get 100% of your money vs 80%) but it grows with investments JUST like a 401k. A lot of companies also have matching HSA's, where they'll match your contributions up to a certain percentage. The company I work for matches up to 6% of your total income on 401k AND HSA. It also rolls over every year if not used so if you go several years without needing it, then get in a really bad accident, you have a much bigger cushion to fall back on. [editline]20th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=LtKyle2;49971704]HSA's seem like a terrible idea. What if you're fucked with a family history of illness and you don't make much money to begin with? State single-payer system or bust.[/QUOTE] How would that play into an HSA in any way, shape, or form? HSA's are completely voluntary just like 401k and IRA [editline]20th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=joshuadim;49971752]I still don't get the logic behind repealing obamacare. 21 million people will lose coverage just to get back at obummer???[/QUOTE] Because Obamacare and the ACA have caused an enormous clusterfuck within the healthcare market? Since it's inception the cost of health insurance and premiums has skyrocketed both for individuals and consumers to cover the people who can't afford it, which in turn creates more people who can't afford it. Not only that but because of some of it's restrictions (such as forcing a company to provide health benefits to employees who work more than 32 hours) it's demolished the system where companies would hire part timers and give them full time hours so they didn't have to provide benefits in the COMPLETELY wrong way. The IDEA was good, they thought that requirement would result in more workers getting health benefits. The reality is companies just put a hard restriction for part time workers to work under the maximum and hired more. It created a problem instead of solving it, because now instead of getting 40 hours without insurance (which for a lot of people was completely fine) they now get 30 or less and still don't have insurance. Not only that but penalizing people who aren't able to or don't want to obtain health insurance with fines that come off their tax return, and sometimes even result in them OWING more money, are bullshit. If you want to generate money for health benefits for those who can't afford it, increase income tax percentages on HIGHER EARNING brackets. Fucking over the people who can already not afford or barely afford health insurance isn't going to solve anything. They're literally robbing Peter to pay Paul. Except Paul already has a fuckload of money because Paul is the health insurance industry.
You know, why couldn't the idea of HSAs be expanded into a government initiative? In return for a very small 1% tax on earnings, which would be placed into a fund, people with Social Security IDs would receive a special debit card and on that card everyone would receive regular and equal deposits from the fund. Regardless of how much you contribute; $200, $300 or $500 per year etc, everyone receives the same return, which would be around $430 per year. It's the more-wealthy helping out the less-wealthy. With that debit card you can use it like a HSA card, to pay for things like GP visits or deductibles. It doesn't make private HSAs redundant (and they should be encouraged as a supplement to the public HSA), it would reduce health insurance premiums as things like GP visits would no longer need to be covered by insurance, and it would also reduce costs in terms of insurance companies sorting out fewer claims (catastrophic events - what insurance should only be for - are probably a minority of insurance claims) and would encourage price competition in things like GP visits (there's evidence to suggest that people who pay out-of-pocket get a better deal than if their insurance pays for it instead).
Because that's literally socialized medicine and we can never have that because that's a COMMUNIST thing to do and we HATE Communism. It's really unfortunate that Americans took so hard to the anti-communist propaganda that was spread around during the cold war because it kind of fucked us over as far as social programs go.
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