[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67271000/jpg/_67271914_friends-again.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE][B]BBC[/B] - In 1991 Croatia was in flames. Montenegrin troops from the Yugoslav army were bombarding the historic city of Dubrovnik and, with its backing, rebel Croatian Serbs were carving out one-third of the country.One day, the rebel Serbs hoped, the areas of Croatia they controlled would become part of a Greater Serbia.
The following year Croatia was helping Bosnian Croats fight Bosnian Serbs and later Muslim Bosniaks. The Yugoslav wars cost tens of thousands of lives and made refugees of millions. And yet today, the region has been transformed and [B]on 1 July Croatia will enter the European Union.[/B]
Symbolic of the change perhaps are two photos, which have been in the Balkan press and on social media recently.
One shows a happy-looking pair travelling together on a London coach. They are Croatian Foreign Minister Vesna Pusic and her opposite number from neighbouring Montenegro, Igor Luksic.
The second picture shows a young couple kissing. The boy is draped in a Serbian flag and his girlfriend in a Croatian one. The photo was taken in Mostar, in Bosnia-Hercegovina, during a school parade.
The story is that the Croatian girl was allegedly berated by an old woman for having a Serbian boyfriend. This prompted her to turn and kiss him.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22316083"]More in Source.[/URL]
The flag couple picture is so sweet.
I hope it works out.
[quote] on 1 July Croatia will enter the European Union.[/quote]
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I'm travelling to Croatia in the summer, I hear its a nice country to visit.
Croatia's kebab-removing skills are top notch.
hatchet, read: land mine
I would really like that to happen. I think it's time to bury our hatchets and live without prejudice or hate. Although our histories are interwoven with blood and mutual hatred, we work better when we see ourselves as equals - not as foes.
Mir braćo.
Braco Hrvati, pozdrav iz Srbije. (Translation for those of you who can't read it : Croatian brothers, greetings from Serbia). I think we can all live in peace and be friends. We can gain so much more that way.
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;40469157]Braco Hrvati, pozdrav iz Srbije. (Translation for those of you who can't read it : Croatian brothers, greetings from Serbia). I think we can all live in peace and be friends. We can gain so much more that way.[/QUOTE]
Now if only you could do the same with Kosovo.
I hate my country then again i never leave my basement so its a win - win situation.
I am from kroation lands
Ja licno kao Srbin nemam problem sa Hrvatima (jer mi nijedan licno nije ucinio nista lose), ali razumem ako neko gaji bes prema drugome (u slucaju da mu je neko poginuo u ratu ili da je proziveo pakao). Da se ne lazemo, tesko da Srbija i Hrvatska mogu biti braca opet (jer su ovi sukobi bili potiskivani skoro ceo vek, puklo je posle Titove smrti kad nije bilo vise osobe koja bi mogla da drzi ljude "pod lancem"), ali ako ista trebalo bi da se srede ekonomski odnosi za dobrobit obe zemlje.
Ne krivite ljude, oni su jedine zrtve u ovom ratu. Ovo je dobar artikal ako neko zeli da ga procita.
[url]http://www.tanjug.rs/novosti/85038/jelic-tudjman-i-milosevic-dogovarali-podelu-bosne.htm[/url]
tl;dr = Maybe we can't be brothers, but we should work together so both countries can benefit.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40469203]Now if only you could do the same with Kosovo.[/QUOTE]
Kosovo is a very very delicate and touchy subject here. And people outside can never really fully understand the problem.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40469203]Now if only you could do the same with Kosovo.[/QUOTE]
It's not easy to make peace to a almost extinct ethnicity, you know
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;40469293]Kosovo is a very very delicate and touchy subject here. And people outside can never really fully understand the problem.[/QUOTE]
That itself is something of a fallacy. International issues do not exist in some kind of impenetrable void, and typically, when someone says "an outsider can't understand this", they're referring to a strongly-held emotional belief. That sort of thing can't be used for arguments about international law or about what should be done under the principles of democracy and human rights.
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;40469293]Kosovo is a very very delicate and touchy subject here. And people outside can never really fully understand the problem.[/QUOTE]
It's very messed up. I could go on about it for ages but FP isn't really forum for it.
[editline]29th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Megafan;40469362]That itself is something of a fallacy. International issues do not exist in some kind of impenetrable void, and typically, when someone says "an outsider can't understand this", they're referring to a strongly-held emotional belief. That sort of thing can't be used for arguments about international law or about what should be done under the principles of democracy and human rights.[/QUOTE]
Because you just can't understand it until you hear it from the people themselves and see it for yourself. Your only source about the Kosovo is the internet. As I said before I could go days about it but this forum isn't place for it (because of it's extreme liberalism and probably because I'd be called liar or criminal apologist or something like that).
Before honking the horn about democracy, what happened to Republic of Serb Krajina and Republic of Srpska?
Both warned that they would go to war if other side tried to claim independence, and both of those were the only ones that got bombed by the west. One was even completely destroyed and most of it's residents were forced out (while thousands were killed while fleeing). Propaganda was very effective during the war and it did it's job: it demonized/criminalised Serbians.
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;40469370]Because you just can't until you hear it from the people themselves and see it for yourself. Your only source about the Kosovo is the internet. As I said before I could go days about it but this forum isn't place for it (because of it's extreme liberalism and probably because I'd be called liar or criminal apologist or something like that).[/QUOTE]
And why is that? Am I also incapable of understanding the issues of poverty and war in African countries? Are we incapable of learning about tragedies in the past because they are no longer around to be seen? If you're being called a liar and an apologist, it may be for some other reason than just the weight of this forum bearing down upon you.
If I recall, this was a post of yours:
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;39418647]Yes, because you have to deal with them everyday harassing people and begging for money. I sometimes really wish that smartasses like you would encounter the group of them in the middle of the night here.
Props for Romas who actually do go and educate themselves.
And now myself am falling into the arguement, but I'll bail out and get back to lurking before people tell me about how my country works.[/quote]
Neither you or anyone else, myself included, is some sage of knowledge about a country simply by virtue of living in it. Someone in Serbia could just as easily live in a box (metaphorically speaking) and have no idea what's going on in Pristina or Belgrade.
[editline]29th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;40469370]Before honking the horn about democracy, what happened to Republic of Serb Krajina and Republic of Srpska?
Both warned that they would go to war if other side tried to claim independence, and both of those were the only ones that got bombed by the west. One was even completely destroyed and most of it's residents were forced out (while thousands were killed while fleeing). Propaganda was very effective during the war and it did it's job: it demonized/criminalised Serbians.[/QUOTE]
Well, it would have been a bit difficult for me to be arguing about that, considering it reintegrated back into Croatia in 1998. On principle of course they deserved self-determination as much as anyone else, but that's kind of a moot point considering how many years have passed since then.
I traveled from Subotica to Nis, I was everywhere. I'm p sure I know the situation here more than the average person, let alone someone from the internet.
I'll stick to the opinion that gypsies are generaly negatively seen here (eastern Europe included), but wont go any further than that because I got banned for that last time. :v:
I said that in my opinion this isn't forum for that discussion, and I'll stick with it. Chances are that you'd ban me after a while anyway.
[quote]Well, it would have been a bit difficult for me to be arguing about that, considering it reintegrated back into Croatia in 1998. On principle of course they deserved self-determination as much as anyone else, but that's kind of a moot point considering how many years have passed since then.[/quote]
Lol you don't know what y'er talking about. It was destroyed in 1995, only tiny bit on the far east of Croatia was intregated back in '98.
[QUOTE=Megafan;40469362]That itself is something of a fallacy. International issues do not exist in some kind of impenetrable void, and typically, when someone says "an outsider can't understand this", they're referring to a strongly-held emotional belief. That sort of thing can't be used for arguments about international law or about what should be done under the principles of democracy and human rights.[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing. Kosovo declared it's independence all by itself, one sided. And that was accepted by the US and then by many other countries. Now it is no secret that the US was a big supporter of this, and still is. But, if Texas was to declare independence, would the US accept that just like that, and let the rest of the world formally accept Texas as independent? I doubt it. What I am trying to say here, it's easier to judge it from a foreign point of view, but when it's in your own yard, the story is quite different.
[QUOTE=H4wkeye;40469502]Here's the thing. Kosovo declared it's independence all by itself, one sided. And that was accepted by the US and then by many other countries. Now it is no secret that the US was a big supporter of this, and still is. But, if Texas was to declare independence, would the US accept that just like that, and let the rest of the world formally accept Texas as independent? I doubt it. What I am trying to say here, it's easier to judge it from a foreign point of view, but when it's in your own yard, the story is quite different.[/QUOTE]
Well it's easier to view it objectively rather than with an emotional bias, depending on your level of nationalism, certainly. However, Kosovo's independence is not only recognized by the US, but by 22 of the 27 EU states as well.
If for example Texas seceded, though unlikely, it would be a costly effort to try and fight that. If there was a genuine popular movement in support of that, then I can see no reason why it should not be allowed. Even if it had been a part of my state, California, the principle applies the same way.
And I think you'll find most countries in the world who have had declarations of independence in spite of another country have done so unilaterally. It's not an uncommon thing.
[editline]29th April 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;40469497]I traveled from Subotica to Nis, I was everywhere. I'm p sure I know the situation here more than the average person, let alone someone from the internet.
I'll stick to the opinion that gypsies are generaly negatively seen here (eastern Europe included), but wont go any further than that because I got banned for that last time. :v:
I said that in my opinion this isn't forum for that discussion, and I'll stick with it. Chances are that you'd ban me after a while anyway.[/QUOTE]
If you get banned for being a racist, chances are you were being a racist. I am not installed here like some instrument of oppression against good nationalists such as yourself, or however you would like to construe this.
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;40469497]Lol you don't know what y'er talking about. It was destroyed in 1995, only tiny bit on the far east of Croatia was intregated back in '98.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Serb Krajina specifically was dissolved in 1995, but the whole issue wasn't really over until the rump state (Eastern Slavonia, Baranja and Western Syrmia) was integrated in 1998. That's why I said it.
I am not a nationalist at all. I'm just trying to say that Kosovo is a delicate and hard subject. It's not just a territory declaring independence and a country accepting it. I mean, the prime minister of Kosovo is a known KLA terrorist leader. That is a fact. He was a terrorist, yet he is free and ruling over Kosovo. I have more issues with that, than Kosovo being independent. I just want equal justice. If Serbs who did war crimes were trialed for it and sent to prison, so should the Albanians or anyone else who did it. KLA was officially recognized as a terrorist organization by the UN, and then, after a huge pressure by the US it was removed from the list and the US called KLA "Freedom fighters".
All in all, I hate politics for a reason and very rarely talk about it. It's bad for society, politics is the devil. I think it's time we all just move on and try to live at peace and work/help each other achieve prosperity. People are tired of fighting, hate and everything they just want to move on. But I can also understand those who lost their loved ones in such wars, holding a grudge and I won't judge them.
[quote]on 1 July Croatia will enter the European Union[/quote]
OH FUCK OH FUCK WE'RE GONNA BE POOR
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