Vladimir Putin Has Upper Hand as Ukraine Talks Begin
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[IMG]http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Peace/2013/Russia/putin_wink_AP.jpg?w=420[/IMG]
[QUOTE]Vadimir Putin portrays himself as a hard man. Judo is his chosen sport. In a judo match, the expert waits until his opponent is off balance, then pounces. This is what Putin is doing in Ukraine. His opponents in this global sparring match are being wrong-footed. A moment of imbalance is fast approaching.
This story is a news analysis from NBC News chief global correspondent Bill Neely.
In Kiev, he faces an inexperienced government, which issued a 24-hour deadline to separatists and then let it pass without acting on it. They have acted now, but they are walking a tightrope they have never been on before.
In Washington, Putin faces a president who declared a red line over chemical weapons in Syria and then failed to enforce it.
And in Western Europe, he faces governments that can't agree on a way forward and who fear the loss of future trade and business with Russia.
The crisis hits a critical moment on Thursday in Geneva. Secretary of State John Kerry will meet with his counterparts from Russia, Ukraine and the European Union. It will be the first time that the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers have met since Russia took Crimea.
Putin is on a roll, after rolling through the peninsula with hardly a shot fired in anger. His troops there never identified themselves and seeped in so quietly, so quickly, it was the stealthiest of takeovers.
Time has moved on since then; literally in Crimea, where they put their clocks forward to match Moscow time.
Now, men in similar uniforms, refusing to identify themselves, have taken over buildings in eastern Ukraine.
Some troops on Ukrainian armored personnel carriers have displayed Russian flags, suggesting they've switched sides.
This a defining moment for Ukraine, a time of danger unparalleled in its short, independent history.
It's a crisis that has spread fear through at least a dozen European countries.
Apart from Belarus, which has remained in Russia's orbit since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the countries around Ukraine are extremely nervous about Moscow's long-term intentions, which remain a mystery.
NATO has sent troops and warplanes to Eastern Europe to reassure alliance members like Poland. But those countries will take a lot of reassuring about the old Russian foe that has so often trampled over their lands before swallowing them. The Polish foreign minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, said of the events in Ukraine: "If it looks like a horse and walks like a horse, it's usually a horse."
So after Crimea, we are beginning the second phase of this crisis. But countries across Europe are looking ahead anxiously to what might be a third phase.
We know Putin yearns for a return to the glory days of the Soviet Union, when Russians were feared or respected across the globe. He called its collapse "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century." He wants to project Russia's power again and to regain some of what was lost, especially in its own backyard.
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/vladimir-putin-has-upper-hand-ukraine-talks-begin-n81961[/url]
As cheesy as the quote is, History is written by the winners, tbh
[quote]Vadimir Putin portrays himself as a hard man. Judo is his chosen sport. In a judo match, the expert waits until his opponent is off balance, then pounces. This is what Putin is doing in Ukraine. His opponents in this global sparring match are being wrong-footed. A moment of imbalance is fast approaching.[/quote]
Dat metaphor
But seriously, I highly doubt that anything will come of these talks. Unless I've been horribly misinformed, the new Ukranian government seems very adamant on removing the Russian/pro-Russian forces from the east, and I see no way that Russia would be willing to broker a deal where they would just let that happen.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44568087]Dat metaphor
But seriously, I highly doubt that anything will come of these talks. Unless I've been horribly misinformed, the new Ukranian government seems very adamant on removing the Russian/pro-Russian forces from the east, and I see no way that Russia would be willing to broker a deal where they would just let that happen.[/QUOTE]
Its not much that, its the half-assed Ukrainian army their sending in
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;44568094]Its not much that, its the half-assed Ukrainian army their sending in[/QUOTE]
It's really fucking hard to be a soldier during civil unrest. Everything is all weird and nothing is really set in stone or a fact and nobody knows everything and they're your fuckin' countrymen you're sent in to fight and hey, maybe you kind of agree with part of their agenda anyway? How about your squadmate, what does he think of it all? Maybe Sarge is sympathetic to the cause, I mean, he [I]is[/I] from Mariupol after all. Whose side is he on if things get hot? How about my cousin in Luhansk? I haven't heard from him since this all started. Maybe I'll have to shoot him one of these days...
[QUOTE=Riller;44568113]It's really fucking hard to be a soldier during civil unrest. Everything is all weird and nothing is really set in stone or a fact and nobody knows everything and they're your fuckin' countrymen you're sent in to fight and hey, maybe you kind of agree with part of their agenda anyway? How about your squadmate, what does he think of it all? Maybe Sarge is sympathetic to the cause, I mean, he [I]is[/I] from Mariupol after all. Whose side is he on if things get hot? How about my cousin in Luhansk? I haven't heard from him since this all started. Maybe I'll have to shoot him one of these days...[/QUOTE]
Hey man I know what you mean. I sympathize with western Ukraine right now. Trying to rebuild an army in barely 2 weeks is close to impossible. However - Using newly undisciplined soldiers is just an ingredient for disaster. Nevertheless, their trying their best to hold Ukraine together. Kinda like the North in the civil war.
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;44568153]Hey man I know what you mean. I sympathize with western Ukraine right now. Trying to rebuild an army in barely 2 weeks is close to impossible. However - Using newly undisciplined soldiers is just an ingredient for disaster. Nevertheless, their trying their best to hold Ukraine together. Kinda like the North in the civil war.[/QUOTE]
Even an experienced, well-organized army will have massive issues with loyalty in civil unrest. See Egypt, Libya and Syria. Soldiers are just people too, and people with opinions at that. Obviously, they want what's best for their country, so in an international conflict, they do their part to the best of their abilities, but with internal strife, the men in uniform are just as likely to hold the opposite opinion of what their superiors are as any other man.
I wish Russia would just admit to all the shit they are doing. Everyone knows they aren't some mysterious soldiers who just so happen to wear the same uniform.
P.S.
OP picture inspired me to make an avatar if anyone wants to use it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LaCuLC5.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;44568153]Hey man I know what you mean. I sympathize with western Ukraine right now. Trying to rebuild an army in barely 2 weeks is close to impossible. However - Using newly undisciplined soldiers is just an ingredient for disaster. Nevertheless, their trying their best to hold Ukraine together. [B]Kinda like the North in the civil war.[/B][/QUOTE]
Which civil war?
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44568173]Which civil war?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zm6pVbc.png[/IMG]
Take a guess.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44568173]Which civil war?[/QUOTE]
The American civil war? People are always saying the North held the union together.
If they did there wouldn't have been a Civil War.
[editline]17th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Riller;44568167]Even an experienced, well-organized army will have massive issues with loyalty in civil unrest. See Egypt, Libya and Syria. Soldiers are just people too, and people with opinions at that. Obviously, they want what's best for their country, so in an international conflict, they do their part to the best of their abilities, but with internal strife, the men in uniform are just as likely to hold the opposite opinion of what their superiors are as any other man.[/QUOTE]
In war - Or in any conflict in general. Soldiers are the pawns of the higher ups. It is a shame, really. I agree with you.
That article makes Putin seem like an evil mastermind.
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;44568229]That article makes Putin seem like an evil mastermind.[/QUOTE]
I more see Putin as a bully
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44568237]I more see Putin as a bully[/QUOTE]
But a clever bully. Even with all the shit he's done, you have to admit that it's been done in a clever way. Make the enemy's soldier turn to your side, make the people rise against the government and then wait until they demand to be part of Russia.
And as the article states, he really does have the upper hand. The Ukrainian government has done little to prevent things from escalating in the east and they only carried through with their ultimatum days after they originally said. The EU doesn't know what it should do - "fight" the Russians and "save" Ukraine, or make angry letters and preserve business, same with the US. And NATO has literally done nothing that it was meant to do: preserve Ukraine's sovereignty.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;44568700]But a clever bully. Even with all the shit he's done, you have to admit that it's been done in a clever way. Make the enemy's soldier turn to your side, make the people rise against the government and then wait until they demand to be part of Russia.[/QUOTE]
In the end it's mostly a propaganda war. There's misinformation everywhere. You can build almost any argument from a variety of sources. Putin is playing the manipulation game masterfully, and I hope that one of these days it comes back to bite him in the ass. It's sickening to watch.
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;44568081]As cheesy as the quote is, History is written by the winners, tbh[/QUOTE]
History is written by the writers, not the victors.
[QUOTE=Masterofstars;44569273]History is written by the writers, not the victors.[/QUOTE]
The writers of the losing team were shot..
[QUOTE=KD007;44569316]The writers of the losing team were shot..[/QUOTE]
It's nearly impossible to kill all of your enemy, and most victors don't go to such lengths.
[QUOTE=matt000024;44568169]I wish Russia would just admit to all the shit they are doing. Everyone knows they aren't some mysterious soldiers who just so happen to wear the same uniform.
P.S.
OP picture inspired me to make an avatar if anyone wants to use it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LaCuLC5.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
thanks buddy
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;44577492]Don't need to kill them all, just need to kill enough that the survivors just be written off as fringe conspiratards.[/QUOTE]
Can you actually cite any time this has actually happened?
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