I hate how much of a grey area it is which one is better. I can't try either before I buy them and I just have to weigh the various pros and cons before I make an $800 purchase
well gee that's not pressuring :vs:
best buys have been hosting oculus and psvr demos, my local one had some touch controllers in a display case like a month ago
Unfortunately vive is old news when it comes to the HOT HOLIDAY SHOPPING SEASON so it's nowhere to be found like that
Is this one of those videos where they have "FINAL ANSWER" in the title and then end up saying something really fucking cliché like "They are both great/ they both have their ups and downs/ it's up to you lol"?
[QUOTE=Lamarr;51498110]Is this one of those videos where they have "FINAL ANSWER" in the title and then end up saying something really fucking cliché like "They are both great/ they both have their ups and downs/ it's up to you lol"?[/QUOTE]Yes, it is, but that can be a final answer too.
I think it's a good answer, too; the situation is not black or white; they really do both have ups and downs. The video does a good job at looking at several features and comparing them.
Basically, what I got from it was "wait for the new Vive controllers."
So far:
-The Vive has worse controllers, but better tracking with two sensors
-The Oculus has better controllers, but worse tracking with two sensors, requiring you to spend an extra $80-$160 if you want something on par with the Vive
Unless Valve/HTC really fucks up the ergonomics of the new controllers, I really don't see why the Vive won't end up "winning this" unless Oculus makes better sensors in the future.
All in all, if you're not into VR at this point, just wait. The tech is still young, and will only improve and go down in cost with time.
Vive tracking is more future proof. And also it's lasers. How cool is that?
That said, Rift definitely has more a e s t h e t i c.
VR is only going to be worth a buy for me when all games developed have an option to us the VR set.
I don't give a shit about 99% of these shitty looking *made for VR* titles. I could care less about which set to pick up because apparently they are both on par. It's just the titles are SUCKING right now.
Also, I couldn't be fucked to use these new controllers. I'd be happier with a standard controller sitting down for a VR experience.
It just feels like VR is being marketed to casual crowd.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51498489]VR is only going to be worth a buy for me when all games developed have an option to us the VR set.
I don't give a shit about 99% of these shitty looking *made for VR* titles. I could care less about which set to pick up because apparently they are both on par. It's just the titles are SUCKING right now.
Also, I couldn't be fucked to use these new controllers. I'd be happier with a standard controller sitting down for a VR experience.
It just feels like VR is being marketed to casual crowd.[/QUOTE]
And the sad thing is, unless there's a massive push by companies to get VR in the hands of consumers, it's going to stay that way because we've got a cycle going.
Just imagine being a AAA game developer, and deciding whether to support it or not for a PC game. I'll GENEROUSLY assume that 10% of my players will have it. Is it really worth adding full real support? Not really for most games. Most I think will at best go the Dota 2 route of having something you can use VR for, and perhaps minigames/small sections, but that'll be it.
And then you show up and say "Why would I buy a $600-800 peripheral when most games won't really support it?" And then the cycle keeps on going.
There's also just the fact that VR is unfeasible for many types of popular games anyways. It's not like a holodeck or a nervegear where it's got perfect immersion.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51497616]I hate how much of a grey area it is which one is better. I can't try either before I buy them and I just have to weigh the various pros and cons before I make an $800 purchase
well gee that's not pressuring :vs:[/QUOTE]
Doesn't it boil down to how much you value room scale experiences? Though id say the oculus has more drawbacks than the vive.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51498489]VR is only going to be worth a buy for me when all games developed have an option to us the VR set.
I don't give a shit about 99% of these shitty looking *made for VR* titles. I could care less about which set to pick up because apparently they are both on par. It's just the titles are SUCKING right now.
Also, I couldn't be fucked to use these new controllers. I'd be happier with a standard controller sitting down for a VR experience.
It just feels like VR is being marketed to casual crowd.[/QUOTE]
Until people can get their "VR legs" (not get motion sick), VR games are going to be extremely limited.
You very well could make a game like "Skyrim VR" where the headset is only an extension of the in game camera and you play with the gamepad, but with the extreme disconnect that can cause with your brain (moving when you're not, moving your arms when you're not), most people will get sick in minutes and never want to try VR again.
Making experiences room based with motion tracking alleviates this a lot, but it also introduces limitations for game size and scope. You can't really make a "Skyrim VR" style experience in a 15ft x 15ft area, unless you use the whole teleportation aspect (which would become annoying and tedious to perform in a massive open world setting).
And it's not exactly easy to make a game that focuses on both VR centric and non VR centric gameplay. Something has to give in one or the other, and as soon as the consumer notices, they might feel cheated in some way. Either via feeling like they wasted $800 for a worse experience, or need to spend $800 for the optimal experience.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;51498489]VR is only going to be worth a buy for me when all games developed have an option to us the VR set.
I don't give a shit about 99% of these shitty looking *made for VR* titles. I could care less about which set to pick up because apparently they are both on par. It's just the titles are SUCKING right now.
Also, I couldn't be fucked to use these new controllers. I'd be happier with a standard controller sitting down for a VR experience.
It just feels like VR is being marketed to casual crowd.[/QUOTE]
playing a VR game with a controller is stupid. just play on your monitor, it's much higher resolution than any of these displays and is more comfortable than having something strapped to your face.
VR without hand or room scale head tracking is by far the worst VR experience, as someone who plays games competitively and has had 4 different VR headsets since the DK1. add hand tracking, and suddenly it's 10x more fun.
[QUOTE=Ott;51498473]Vive tracking is more future proof. And also it's lasers. How cool is that?
That said, Rift definitely has more a e s t h e t i c.[/QUOTE]
They both depend on photon emitters, except one of them happen to be spinning.
That's not Linus :(
[QUOTE=Downsider;51498749]playing a VR game with a controller is stupid. just play on your monitor, it's much higher resolution than any of these displays and is more comfortable than having something strapped to your face.
VR without hand or room scale head tracking is by far the worst VR experience, as someone who plays games competitively and has had 4 different VR headsets since the DK1. add hand tracking, and suddenly it's 10x more fun.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, I don't know where people are getting the backwards idea that the hand controllers are somehow a bad thing. There are some situations where hand controllers don't make as much sense (racing games are obviously better with a wheel for example) but outside of very few exceptions they're how you'll want to play basically everything.
[QUOTE=Lazore;51498546]Doesn't it boil down to how much you value room scale experiences? Though id say the oculus has more drawbacks than the vive.[/QUOTE]
The rift needs more setup, more running wires, and you don't get to use as much of your play space as the vive. If you're tight on space the vive is the obvious option, although with talk of new controllers/lighthouses in 2017 I'm excited to see what the vive is bringing.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;51498598]Until people can get their "VR legs" (not get motion sick), VR games are going to be extremely limited.
You very well could make a game like "Skyrim VR" where the headset is only an extension of the in game camera and you play with the gamepad, but with the extreme disconnect that can cause with your brain (moving when you're not, moving your arms when you're not), most people will get sick in minutes and never want to try VR again.[/QUOTE]
It's not quite as bad as it's made out to be, some of the more popular vr games now don't use teleportation. Climbey has you doing sudden jerky movements in the game disconnected from real life and I get tired playing that long before I get sick. FOV restriction when moving, acceleration/deceleration, and realistic moving speeds all go a huge way in preventing motion sickness. Ideally games should provide options, though.
my two cents:
The Vive is great when it's up and running and by far the best VR experience you can have, but for a pretty $800 you get some of the most abysmal software as a backend and it takes a developer's/prosumer's mind to know how to properly operate it. And it takes a huge investment in space, time, and money. But, I have no regrets with my system.
The Oculus is a great middle ground with great sitting tracking, which is what most people need if they're thinking of VR, but for standing and "room scale" experiences it's very limited with it's poor tracking from far away distances. Great if you already have a PC able to run VR. It has some hella cool controllers though, but valve is getting close to matching them with the new Vive controllers. In comparison to what's below it, you get great resolution and great tracking with some great controllers, but very limited on what it "can" do. Depends on if you want to make the $200 jump to the oculus and get basic improvements, or the $400 jump to the vive and get a whole new experience barely matched on the Oculus.
Playstation VR, while not mentioned in this video, gets the shit from most for it's poor tracking and resolution, but for $400 it's a clear winner in the consumer mind, especially if you already have a PS4. It's one of the easiest headsets to strap on, it's durable, light, and it has some good quality, basic consumer focused content already available with more to come.
cardboard and gearvr are completely worthless in the grand scheme of things, but are worth noting if you're not a big vr nut or just want to casually get into it.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51499041]some of the most abysmal software as a backend[/QUOTE]
Can you elaborate on this? I've had no issues that didn't fix themselves with my Vive
Something about the lighting and the table makes everything look not real in this video. It's tripping me out.
I picked up the Oculus and Touch controllers on Tuesday this week. I set the 2 sensors up in their "experimental" room-scale mode and I actually have no issues with 360 tracking in my 7ft by 6ft space. Plus-side is the camera based solution could eventually allow body-based tracking without needing any extra sensors on your body vs the Vive which will need some point of reference (since it's laser based) so it'll know "foot" or "knee". It's gonna be interesting in the end to see which tracking solution actually "wins".
[QUOTE=J!NX;51499074]Can you elaborate on this? I've had no issues that didn't fix themselves with my Vive[/QUOTE]
various things, mostly coming down to the inputs. I have to spend awhile plugging cords in and out to try and make it work. There's constant interference with my default bluetooth drivers, which causes the sensors to not work. I had an issue for awhile where if i started the controllers it would crash the system and i'd have to restart again. Takes me about an hour every time to get the Vive fully up and running after several restarts, messing around with the vive developer settings, etc.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51499194]various things, mostly coming down to the inputs. I have to spend awhile plugging cords in and out to try and make it work. There's constant interference with my default bluetooth drivers, which causes the sensors to not work. I had an issue for awhile where if i started the controllers it would crash the system and i'd have to restart again. Takes me about an hour every time to get the Vive fully up and running.[/QUOTE]
I've never had this issue, or heard of it
this sounds like your end tbh, they should absolutely not be doing that
if it legit takes an hour to run it and it crashes your system then something is wrong with your computer :v:
I personally keep mine unplugged. I plug it in, start SteamVR, and it works perfectly. Room setups already good. Bam, game running.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51499204]I've never had this issue, or heard of it
this sounds like your end tbh, they should absolutely not be doing that
if it legit takes an hour to run it and it crashes your system then something is wrong with your computer :v:[/QUOTE]
it probably could be. A lot of it i fear is on my bluetooth adapter I have. Since my computer has no bluetooth, I use a USB adapter and it worked fine up until I got the vive, since the breakaway box has it's own adapter. But that adapter only works like half the time, and since I have it in another room it's basically pointless for my computer. the problem is that bluetooth is what drives the connection to the controllers and lighthouses, so it causes a lot of issues if they conflict, which they do often.
The bigger problem is that the drivers I use for my adapter and the drivers for the Vive seem to be different? it's real fuckin weird. also, my gpu has the worlds flimsiest hdmi input. I have to jiggle it in just the right way or it doesn't work. I know these are mostly my problems, but I've never experienced such an issue with anything else.
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51499233]it probably could be. A lot of it i fear is on my bluetooth adapter I have. Since my computer has no bluetooth, I use a USB adapter and it worked fine up until I got the vive, since the breakaway box has it's own adapter. But that adapter only works like half the time, and since I have it in another room it's basically pointless for my computer. the problem is that bluetooth is what drives the connection to the controllers and lighthouses, so it causes a lot of issues if they conflict, which they do often.[/QUOTE]
Then just don't use it any more?
I don't see the problem. If you have devices that use bluetooth, just get new devices. it sounds like you're creating your own issue.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51499251]Then just don't use it any more?
I don't see the problem. If you have devices that use bluetooth, just get new devices. it sounds like you're creating your own issue.[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to just throw away my $200 headset that I've been using for years that still works totally fine because of the vive. that's a terrible answer to the problem, especially if the headset is otherwise perfect for the vive. As for the adapter, I would be fine with using the one for the Vive, but the problem is the drivers are so fucked now that even if I reinstall both of them they still conflict even if one isn't there. I'd have to do a complete system reinstall and I don't want to go through that trouble, I'll just cross the bridge when it comes.
My other complaints with the software is how it doesn't explain any of this. I'm mostly guessing at this point, the error codes are mostly worthless because it'll say something along the lines like "device not connected to hdmi" even though it is, and then I'll restart and then it'll be fine.
Like I said, I can finagle around these issues but I fear the average consumer can't, which is why I said that it's for huge prosumers or game developers or hardware enthusiasts, but not for the average consumer considering the huge footprint it carries and the constant headaches I've experienced, and the headaches others I know have had, with the machine. I know I'm not the only one dealing with this because I've looked at what others are saying and they're having even worse problems and no avail because the software is terrible at giving advice on how to alleviate the problems. Hardwares great, but software should still be in beta.
The only redeeming factor is that really nice room setup software, because it's super cute and has some polish to it. Everything else though is a real pain to deal with.
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5h51dd/the_hard_truth_about_virtual_reality_development/[/url]
pretty interesting post from a dev
[QUOTE=Gamerman12;51499041]my two cents:
The Vive is great when it's up and running and by far the best VR experience you can have, but for a pretty $800 you get some of the most abysmal software as a backend and it takes a developer's/prosumer's mind to know how to properly operate it. And it takes a huge investment in space, time, and money. But, I have no regrets with my system.[/QUOTE]
i gotta agree with you on the bit about how to property operate it, the vive is not a very friendly piece of hardware to the average consumer at all. the setup is so fucking tedious unless you just leave all the sensors and crap up 24/7 after setting it up for the first time.
also the damn thing is too heavy. feels like i'm gonna make a motion too fast and it's gonna fling off my head.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Downsider;51498749]playing a VR game with a controller is stupid. just play on your monitor, it's much higher resolution than any of these displays and is more comfortable than having something strapped to your face.
VR without hand or room scale head tracking is by far the worst VR experience, as someone who plays games competitively and has had 4 different VR headsets since the DK1. add hand tracking, and suddenly it's 10x more fun.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever heard of flightsims?
I've used both and the vive is way more fun since it's more immersive.
However, the Rift is lighter and has more breathing room and doesn't need a whole room so I can see myself using it just for Elite and Subnautica and I can play it for longer because it's not hot and heavy like the vive is after a while. I haven't used the oculus touch so I can't speak for it.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51497616]I hate how much of a grey area it is which one is better. I can't try either before I buy them and I just have to weigh the various pros and cons before I make an $800 purchase
well gee that's not pressuring :vs:[/QUOTE]
I think it's great, competition doesn't stagnate and buying the "wrong" one isn't that big a deal.
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