• Evolution of Halo
    23 replies, posted
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CNdP5c1JZo[/media] HYPE!#@!#!@#
They should have mentioned Halo Online
I really do miss Bungie, it felt like like Halo ended on a high note with Halo 3, it ended perfectly, so it continuing mixed with 343's writing and [I]complete[/I] redesign of the universe just never sat right with me, it felt far too forced for my liking, it just isn't the same Halo I enjoyed back in the day.
What is he doing with his voice, it sounds like shit through my speakers
What, no word about Halo 1's lackluster and repetitive level design?
Squad gimmick, underwhelming story and good multiplayer, yeah I guess that's about all you could say about Halo 5
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;51672798]What, no word about Halo 1's lackluster and repetitive level design?[/QUOTE] No because if you point that out you get shat on
[QUOTE=Sally;51672395]What is he doing with his voice, it sounds like shit through my speakers[/QUOTE] I was thinking the same thing. It's definitely edited and it sounded awful. edit: and now that I've finished it, I'm not even sure what I watched. I thought this would be like a video essay or something but it just feels like I watched an ad.
I always liked ODST and Halo Wars, ODST was hard because you'd get stomped into the concrete and had to rethink previous strategies to survive which honestly makes me want them in Multiplayer for a future halo game as a way to pit yourself against the spartan but we'll never see that in our life time.. As for Halo wars, It had some good cutscenes and the gameplay was overall changeling while the controls in some places seem clumsy and a bit random, It was memorable and that's what counts at the end of the day. [QUOTE=Warriorx4;51672798]What, no word about Halo 1's lackluster and repetitive level design?[/QUOTE] Two words, Modular Assets. If you didn't have then you'd have a game that was ultra big as every asset would be unique.
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;51672798]What, no word about Halo 1's lackluster and repetitive level design?[/QUOTE] For interior levels, I absolutely agree. The library levels in particular suuucked. I did love the outdoor level designs though, that is where the game really shined.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;51673120]For interior levels, I absolutely agree. The library levels in particular suuucked. I did love the outdoor level designs though, that is where the game really shined.[/QUOTE] That and two of the last levels are just the previous levels backwards, and the final level reuses an amount of the first level. Though I never had a problem with that, I've always liked returning to places you've been and seeing how they change.
This is a neat video, but one thing really irked me: When they talked about Halo Anniversary, they said that it "brought online to Halo 1 for the first time", which isn't actually true. The PC version of Halo 1 Combat Evolved had multiplayer from the get go.
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;51672798]What, no word about Halo 1's lackluster and repetitive level design?[/QUOTE] Backtracking and reusing level assets was super common back then in order to pad out the game and fit things within deadlines. I think it's pretty obvious that's why they included those levels. More importantly, in the context of the plot it fits and makes sense. MGS1 did the same thing but I hear less about that than the use of backtracking in Halo. You get almost halfway through the game and you have to go all the way back to the beginning to find a PSG-1. Easily the most annoying part of the game. It's up there with the 100 flight stairs in the Comm Tower. There were a lot of problems with Halo 1, but the lackluster level design is not the most prominent or worthy of much discussion. I think the rapid transition with the Flood is where the game really fell apart, because the gameplay becomes less focused on just picking up random weapons when you run out of ammo and experimenting and devolves into using only the shotgun, because why bother with anything else when the enemy you're fighting only charges at you. This is a VERY consistent problem across all the Halo games. I can't speak for anything past ODST because that was the last Halo game I played. But in every Halo game that features the Flood, they're by far the most boring threat to fight in all of the games. They don't do anything unique or interesting. In Halo 2 they're more of a threat with the reduced shield capacity, but all-in-all they still do all the same stuff. In Halo 3 it was a bit different since they had different forms, like that one needler thing. Those things were annoying as hell, but for the most part the Flood in general were still a generic brawler-type enemy that was very easy to predict.
[QUOTE=jonu67;51672381]I really do miss Bungie, it felt like like Halo ended on a high note with Halo 3, it ended perfectly, so it continuing mixed with 343's writing and [I]complete[/I] redesign of the universe just never sat right with me, it felt far too forced for my liking, it just isn't the same Halo I enjoyed back in the day.[/QUOTE] Halo 3 did not end the series perfectly lol. There were so many plotholes and instances of downright awful writing throughout the entire game. ODST might not have been the hit that 3 was, but story and campaign-wise it was far better.
[QUOTE=Warriorx4;51672798]What, no word about Halo 1's lackluster and repetitive level design?[/QUOTE] The only real repetitive part was assault on the control room when you were in the facility rooms. 2 betrayals of you consider the return trip as bad. But nothing in halo felt lackluster for what they could of offered [QUOTE=haloguy234;51673193]-[/quote] what he said
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;51673179]This is a neat video, but one thing really irked me: When they talked about Halo Anniversary, they said that it "brought online to Halo 1 for the first time", which isn't actually true. The PC version of Halo 1 Combat Evolved had multiplayer from the get go.[/QUOTE] Not to mention that Halo Anniversary's multiplayer component was more "Reach with some remastered H1 maps" than "Literally H1 but online!" Anyway, I wouldn't be the gamer I am today without the first few Halo games, specifically Combat Evolved. If there's one thing I want to do before I die, it's making a custom campaign for Halo CE.
[QUOTE=Sally;51673382]The only real repetitive part was assault on the control room when you were in the facility rooms. 2 betrayals of you consider the return trip as bad.[/QUOTE] Level 1 Pillar of autumn - whole level just same looking corridors from start to finish Level 2 Halo - three times you fight around those triangular things that shoots blue light into the sky Level 3 Truth and Reconciliation - constantly going trough the same looking hallways on the Covenant ship and you return three time to the same place (the room with the ship) Level 5 Assault on the control room - they repeated basically the same room 11 times !!! Level 6 343 Guilty Spark - the lift room, bridge room and rectangular room with glass were repeated each 3 times Level 7 The Library - each floor is the same stuff over and over again. They should have just cut out one of them out from the final game. Level 8 Two Betrayals - level 5 in reverse Level 9 Keyes - repeated level 3 Level 10 - repeated parts of level 1
The first half of the video gave me goosebumps, Halo will always have a special place in my heart. I can't even count all the times I've played co-op with my lil' brother, we always had a blast. Thank you Bungie.
With marathon and halo being my 2 favourite video game trilogies (never got to play anything past 3, my Xbox died just before ODST) the old bungie is one of my favourite developers. Halo 3 is probably my most played console game to date, and I met many friends due to that game some who I still speak to today. I didn't get to play halo 2 much in its heyday, only when I went to a friend's house who had an xbox but I loved it and it got me into halo. After that the esports scene back then had a large focus on halo and I watched all the major MLG tournaments which got me into the more competitive side of online gaming. I still haven't played an online FPS game that beats the experience of halo 3, it just worked so well
[QUOTE=AntonioR;51674189]Level 1 Pillar of autumn - whole level just same looking corridors from start to finish Level 2 Halo - three times you fight around those triangular things that shoots blue light into the sky Level 3 Truth and Reconciliation - constantly going trough the same looking hallways on the Covenant ship and you return three time to the same place (the room with the ship) Level 5 Assault on the control room - they repeated basically the same room 11 times !!! Level 6 343 Guilty Spark - the lift room, bridge room and rectangular room with glass were repeated each 3 times Level 7 The Library - each floor is the same stuff over and over again. They should have just cut out one of them out from the final game. Level 8 Two Betrayals - level 5 in reverse Level 9 Keyes - repeated level 3 Level 10 - repeated parts of level 1[/QUOTE] All of those levels that you speak of, again ignoring 5 and 8 had so much shit going on that it didn't matter to me then just like it still doesn't matter to me now.
Honestly the repeating levels never bugged me. Given the context of the plot, it's at least justified. The Library is still probably one of the worst Halo levels though. The repeating corridors don't help, but the only enemy you fight is the flood and there is literally no plot advancement other than "got the key". It's just lots of bullshit cheap deaths because a flood just happened to spawn behind you with a shotgun among the 20 other enemies around you. I'm always so fucking happy when that level is over.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;51674189]Level 1 Pillar of autumn - whole level just same looking corridors from start to finish Level 2 Halo - three times you fight around those triangular things that shoots blue light into the sky Level 3 Truth and Reconciliation - constantly going trough the same looking hallways on the Covenant ship and you return three time to the same place (the room with the ship) Level 5 Assault on the control room - they repeated basically the same room 11 times !!! Level 6 343 Guilty Spark - the lift room, bridge room and rectangular room with glass were repeated each 3 times Level 7 The Library - each floor is the same stuff over and over again. They should have just cut out one of them out from the final game. Level 8 Two Betrayals - level 5 in reverse Level 9 Keyes - repeated level 3 Level 10 - repeated parts of level 1[/QUOTE] I'm going to have to heavily dispute you on a bunch of those. Pillar of Autumn - You're right that assets are heavily repeated, but that's more of an artistic choice than a than a resource-focused one as it' a level on a ship, of course the hallways are going to look similar. Instead, the layouts of each fight are completely different, cover is used extensively to block of and open up new routes of attack and there are typically side paths you can use to flank around while your allies fight off the main attack. This level really isn't repetitive in the slightest. Halo - Oh boo fucking hoo you're fighting around 3 structures that look and act the same, completely disregarding the massive landscapes around them that offer differing tactical opportunities. It even makes sense as an artistic standpoint because why would the pylons be different really? Truth and Reconcilliation - The first half of the mission is on the ground with completely different terrain between the arenas. The second half is in the ship, but the corridors are used as conduits between the main arenas of the ship such as the lift bay, the hanger, the control room, etc. Not to mention the actual layouts of the corridors are always different. This mission is one of my favorites in this game for a reason. The Silent Cartographer - You didn't even put this chapter but this is one of the least repetitive levels of the entire game. Assault on the Control Room - you're not entirely wrong, but each of the repeated segments is intersected by a dive into the valley below which offers very different and much more interesting gameplay due to the vehicles of Halo. Overall it's still a pretty great level because even the repeated segments are broken up through the different layouts of them. 343 Guilty Spark - The swamp outside the main complex is completely novel and the insides are the assets reused in different layouts forcing you to tactically adapt to the situation with the flood closing in on all sides. This level is a bit more repetitive than all the others since it doesn't break up the repetition all that well, but even then there's more than enough variety in this mission. The Library - Okay I have absolutely no argument here. This level is a massive piece of shit and I like to forget that it's even in Halo. Even once you've mastered Halo and know how to deal with the flood, it's just boring after that. Two Betrayals - It is Assault on the Control Room in reverse, but at the same time there's some massive differences. Just the fact that the flood is there offers up new tactical considerations you must deal with and the fact that you're going backwards through the level makes it familiar yet different. Keyes - Except it's literally not. There are some similar areas to Truth and Reconciliation, but overall the level is much much different as fighting through a partially destroyed ship that's moved it's grav lift is going to result in. The Maw - While assets are repeated like in the Pillar of Autumn, as always the actual layout of everything is massively different each time, and areas that weren't accessible before are accessible now. Overall it really isn't that repetitive and serves as a pretty good final mission as you walk through the destroyed husk that you were on when you started the game. Overall, the measure of any good game, or anything good really, is not that it has no flaws, but it hides those flaws well. Halo certainly succeeds in that part, with the flaw being assets being constantly reused, but the devs hide it very well by changing up the layout and style of those assets. Even the repeated hallways are different as they twist and turn through to the next arena that you fight in. The only real exception to this is the Library, but even then as I said before the measure of a good game is not that it has no flaws, but it hides them, and one level out of 10 other good ones certainly meets that.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;51675881]I'm going to have to heavily dispute you on a bunch of those. Pillar of Autumn - You're right that assets are heavily repeated, but that's more of an artistic choice than a than a resource-focused one as it' a level on a ship, of course the hallways are going to look similar. Instead, the layouts of each fight are completely different, cover is used extensively to block of and open up new routes of attack and there are typically side paths you can use to flank around while your allies fight off the main attack. This level really isn't repetitive in the slightest. Halo - Oh boo fucking hoo you're fighting around 3 structures that look and act the same, completely disregarding the massive landscapes around them that offer differing tactical opportunities. It even makes sense as an artistic standpoint because why would the pylons be different really? Truth and Reconcilliation - The first half of the mission is on the ground with completely different terrain between the arenas. The second half is in the ship, but the corridors are used as conduits between the main arenas of the ship such as the lift bay, the hanger, the control room, etc. Not to mention the actual layouts of the corridors are always different. This mission is one of my favorites in this game for a reason. The Silent Cartographer - You didn't even put this chapter but this is one of the least repetitive levels of the entire game. Assault on the Control Room - you're not entirely wrong, but each of the repeated segments is intersected by a dive into the valley below which offers very different and much more interesting gameplay due to the vehicles of Halo. Overall it's still a pretty great level because even the repeated segments are broken up through the different layouts of them. 343 Guilty Spark - The swamp outside the main complex is completely novel and the insides are the assets reused in different layouts forcing you to tactically adapt to the situation with the flood closing in on all sides. This level is a bit more repetitive than all the others since it doesn't break up the repetition all that well, but even then there's more than enough variety in this mission. The Library - Okay I have absolutely no argument here. This level is a massive piece of shit and I like to forget that it's even in Halo. Even once you've mastered Halo and know how to deal with the flood, it's just boring after that. Two Betrayals - It is Assault on the Control Room in reverse, but at the same time there's some massive differences. Just the fact that the flood is there offers up new tactical considerations you must deal with and the fact that you're going backwards through the level makes it familiar yet different. Keyes - Except it's literally not. There are some similar areas to Truth and Reconciliation, but overall the level is much much different as fighting through a partially destroyed ship that's moved it's grav lift is going to result in. The Maw - While assets are repeated like in the Pillar of Autumn, as always the actual layout of everything is massively different each time, and areas that weren't accessible before are accessible now. Overall it really isn't that repetitive and serves as a pretty good final mission as you walk through the destroyed husk that you were on when you started the game. Overall, the measure of any good game, or anything good really, is not that it has no flaws, but it hides those flaws well. Halo certainly succeeds in that part, with the flaw being assets being constantly reused, but the devs hide it very well by changing up the layout and style of those assets. Even the repeated hallways are different as they twist and turn through to the next arena that you fight in. The only real exception to this is the Library, but even then as I said before the measure of a good game is not that it has no flaws, but it hides them, and one level out of 10 other good ones certainly meets that.[/QUOTE] I just made a list of all things that repeat, I didn't try to analyze the levels and the gameplay. That is why you don't see Silent Cartographer on the list, there was no repetition there. I agree with your detailed analysis.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;51673120]For interior levels, I absolutely agree. The library levels in particular suuucked. I did love the outdoor level designs though, that is where the game really shined.[/QUOTE] You're not wrong there. The outdoor levels were grand. [editline]19th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=haloguy234;51673193]Backtracking and reusing level assets was super common back then in order to pad out the game and fit things within deadlines. I think it's pretty obvious that's why they included those levels. More importantly, in the context of the plot it fits and makes sense. MGS1 did the same thing but I hear less about that than the use of backtracking in Halo. You get almost halfway through the game and you have to go all the way back to the beginning to find a PSG-1. Easily the most annoying part of the game. It's up there with the 100 flight stairs in the Comm Tower. There were a lot of problems with Halo 1, but the lackluster level design is not the most prominent or worthy of much discussion. I think the rapid transition with the Flood is where the game really fell apart, because the gameplay becomes less focused on just picking up random weapons when you run out of ammo and experimenting and devolves into using only the shotgun, because why bother with anything else when the enemy you're fighting only charges at you. This is a VERY consistent problem across all the Halo games. I can't speak for anything past ODST because that was the last Halo game I played. But in every Halo game that features the Flood, they're by far the most boring threat to fight in all of the games. They don't do anything unique or interesting. In Halo 2 they're more of a threat with the reduced shield capacity, but all-in-all they still do all the same stuff. In Halo 3 it was a bit different since they had different forms, like that one needler thing. Those things were annoying as hell, but for the most part the Flood in general were still a generic brawler-type enemy that was very easy to predict.[/QUOTE] Reusing assets common? Sure. Super common? No. Acceptable? In some cases. Not in Halo's for the most part. Assault On The Control Room had those cube shaped rooms in spades and spades. 343 Guilty Spark did the same thing. The Library did this to an infamous degree, but everyone forgets Assault and 343. Two Betrayals has you revisiting the rooms from Assault and it's just fucking boring. Who's talking about MGS1? Why did you bring that up at all? For what it's worth, I agree that the backtracking in MGS1 was whatever as fuck. Not prominent or worthy of discussion? You bet your sweet bippy, man. I don't see how anyone can ignore Halo 1's copypasted level design. Perhaps it's because I own a physical PC release and play it at least once a year that I can't. Fucking hate Assault's interior levels. So goddamn uninteresting. Your points about the Flood hold water.
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