• Deciding on a college for Game Development. What is your opinion on Full Sail?
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Hey there! As far as Game development goes, not many schools out there even offer it as a major. However from my searches I have seemed to find a decent school called Full Sail University. This school, from the looks of it, orbits around these types of majors which leads me to believe in its validity. On the other hand, I have heard more than a couple reports of it being a "fake school" or a "rip off". Now, this certainly scared me, as choosing a college is (kind of) important. Lets analyze this a bit more. I have heard from forums and such, that Full Sail likes to accept everyone, and then weed out the slackers. So the people that are actually motivated come out of the school successfully avoiding the fast food business. Then the slackers go home and rant on forums on how bad the school is because they really didn't deserve that 1.4 GPA. As far as other colleges go, I always like to ask about their game development program. Most tech schools are like "Oh yea I think we have that." Meanwhile it's just a slightly altered CS degree with a DnD club bonus. Now when I go to the course outline for the Game Development degree in Full Sail, I can see that they actually know what they are talking about. (First off, they managed to separate Design from Development) But you can easily see that the courses offered are strictly aimed at the skills you will need for development. ([url=http://www.fullsail.edu/degrees/campus/game-development-bachelors/courses/programming-i-COP%201000]Courses[/url] like OpenGL and Artificial Intelligence) Now, the internet has really put a bad taste in my mouth about Full Sail, but I like to stand unbiased. [b]I don't really have a preference to where I go, but I want the school with the BEST academic material aimed towards game development.[/b] Meaning, if USC has a better, more in-depth course on engine development, I will choose it over Full Sail in a heartbeat. But like I said, its hard to determine what the course material is like when the degree isnt even listed on their website, which also raises a red flag. Then again, I don't want Full Sail to be a watered down program that uses Game maker 8. I am perfectly capable of teaching myself what I will be taught in college. I guess my main focus is to go somewhere where I can find people that are interested in game development as much as I am, and collaborate with them. It's also nice to have a professor to go to when I'm stuck with my code; a professor at Full Sail will be able to find the bugs in my OpenGL code, while my professor in (insert CS major course here) may not. Anyone that has ever been to Full Sail, please share your experience. If not, please share your opinion. This is a really big decision for me, and I'd appreciate it. Thank you. -Dak
I would ask the people over here. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev[/url] From what I usual read Fullsail is pretty good and Digipen is regarded as the best. (I don't read much; take these with a grain of salt) I think. Good luck, I hope to major in Game Development too after next year. Also this may help [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/fd88n/thinking_about_going_to_school_for_game/[/url] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/m443f/iama_ex_course_director_at_full_sail_game_dev/[/url]
Full Sail is a scam.
Just gonna say it, don't do games development, it's too vague. Do something else and use that degree to do games [B]art[/B] or games [B]programming[/B] at university level. Or maybe games sound design or something else. But never just pure development, you likely won't learn much of anything unless it's one of the crazy high end ones like DigiPen.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;38901445]Just gonna say it, don't do games development, it's too vague. Do something else and use that degree to do games [B]art[/B] or games [B]programming[/B] at university level. Or maybe games sound design or something else. But never just pure development, you likely won't learn much of anything unless it's one of the crazy high end ones like DigiPen.[/QUOTE] Isnt Game Development basically Game Programming? RIT only offers Game Development. You arent getting confused with Game Design major right?
idk I'm just going on what I know from UK stuff. The crappy games development course I did in college was vague and touched briefly upon programming, art and sound and it was useless. Luckily I used the degree to get into games art at university.
I should probably elaborate. I was debating on going to Full Sail as well, but ended up going to UCF. The first warning sign is that Full Sail is a for-profit school, so all they care about is your money. They accept anyone that's willing to pay the tuition, which you pay all up-front. The second warning sign is that the credits are nontransferable. So if you want to transfer to another school, you're fucked; have to start all over. I did end up learning of a UCF-affiliated graduate school, [url=http://www.fiea.ucf.edu/]Florida Interactive Entertainment Academy (FIEA)[/url] which seemed a lot more credible than Full Sail. However you first need a bachelor's degree.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;38901556]idk I'm just going on what I know from UK stuff. The crappy games development course I did in college was vague and touched briefly upon programming, art and sound and it was useless. Luckily I used the degree to get into games art at university.[/QUOTE] That sounds a lot like a Game Design major here in the States. They are kinda laughable here. Game development is synonymous with programming the games.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;38901445]Just gonna say it, don't do games development, it's too vague. Do something else and use that degree to do games [B]art[/B] or games [B]programming[/B] at university level. Or maybe games sound design or something else. But never just pure development, you likely won't learn much of anything unless it's one of the crazy high end ones like DigiPen.[/QUOTE] The Game Development Degree at Full Sail is programming oriented, it just sounds fancier and they throw in some other classes that are related to the development of games such as animation. Although their main course load is programming.
Game development is more of something you should do on the side in my opinion. Use skills you learn during college and apply them to make games on your own time. Plus, the industry is not a fun place to work in from the stories I've heard.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;38901561]I should probably elaborate. I was debating on going to Full Sail as well, but ended up going to UCF. The first warning sign is that Full Sail is a for-profit school, so all they care about is your money. They accept anyone that's willing to pay the tuition, which you pay all up-front. The second warning sign is that the credits are nontransferable. So if you want to transfer to another school, you're fucked; have to start all over. I did end up learning of a UCF-affiliated graduate school, [url=http://www.fiea.ucf.edu/]Florida Interactive Entertainment Academy (FIEA)[/url] which seemed a lot more credible than Full Sail. However you first need a bachelor's degree.[/QUOTE] Did you major in Game Development? If so, what were the courses like?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;38901561]I should probably elaborate. I was debating on going to Full Sail as well, but ended up going to UCF. The first warning sign is that Full Sail is a for-profit school, so all they care about is your money. They accept anyone that's willing to pay the tuition, which you pay all up-front. The second warning sign is that the credits are nontransferable. So if you want to transfer to another school, you're fucked; have to start all over. I did end up learning of a UCF-affiliated graduate school, [url=http://www.fiea.ucf.edu/]Florida Interactive Entertainment Academy (FIEA)[/url] which seemed a lot more credible than Full Sail. However you first need a bachelor's degree.[/QUOTE] This thread address that a bit and has a few graduates from Full Sail in the comments. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/106egs/fyi_most_forprofit_colleges_are_shit/[/url]
And another general rule of thumb with universities: if a school has to advertise themselves, they're generally bad schools.
I live in Florida, about an hour and a half away from Full Sail. I visited and took a tour, and I have to say that Full Sail has a very impressive campus, and very up-to-date on their technology. Everything was very, very impressive. But not really for the price and it's not even regionally accredited (i think this is the term for it), but the classes you take cannot be transferred to another university. This is a HUGE downside. At the time I thought I wanted to be in the graphic design field, until I realized it is so hard to make money doing art like that. I ended up going to a 4 year state university, majoring in B.A. Computer Science program. [B]Edit:[/B] The 2 year program at Full Sail is also very rigorous, which thinking back, would suck. I now that I'm in my third year at college, I wanna stay here the 4 years (maybe longer, because I loved having the traditional college experience). There's something to be said to have a real college experience.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;38901624]Game development is more of something you should do on the side in my opinion. Use skills you learn during college and apply them to make games on your own time. Plus, the industry is not a fun place to work in from the stories I've heard.[/QUOTE] The industry sounds scary, but hopefully starting a small indie company is an option if I meet the right people at school. And I'm probably more apt to find people interested in Game Dev at Full Sail than at a tech school.
[QUOTE=Dakattack;38901634]Did you major in Game Development? If so, what were the courses like?[/QUOTE] I'm only working at an undergraduate degree right now, so I can't answer that. I am considering FIEA after I finish though.
I'm in college for game design at the USC right now (although it's called "Interactive Entertainment".) Would seriously recommend, although it's extremely hard to get into (we accept ~25 students a year to the program) and it's more geared towards game [B]design[/B] rather than specifically development (how to code/make models/ etc.) There's some of both, but design is the focus. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
[QUOTE=Nutnoze;38901700]I'm in college for game design at the USC right now (although it's called "Interactive Entertainment".) Would seriously recommend, although it's extremely hard to get into (we accept ~25 students a year to the program) and it's more geared towards game [B]design[/B] rather than specifically development (how to code/make models/ etc.) There's some of both, but design is the focus. If you have any questions feel free to ask.[/QUOTE] I may have the credentials, but aside from that what have you learned so far? Or plan to learn for that matter?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;38901645]And another general rule of thumb with universities: if a school has to advertise themselves, they're generally bad schools.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjCo2I3ooK0[/media] QED
[QUOTE=Dakattack;38901733]I may have the credentials, but aside from that what have you learned so far? Or plan to learn for that matter?[/QUOTE] In your freshman year you'll do a lot of general education stuff, as well as some requirements for being a part of the school of cinematic arts (basic film studies courses), which is applicable enough in how you learn about camera angles, set design, etc. that you can actually really start seeing it in video games too. You'll only take a few game related courses, including something along the lines of a video game history course and some form of programming ('CS-101' or 'CS-101 for people too stupid to know how to handle real coding') Sophomore year is where I am and where it really picks up though. This semester I started off taking a game design course where we did stuff like making board games, learning how to balance and how to create specific experiences in players, and how to actually work in a group with a lot of other designers who want things their way. I also took a game development class where we used Unity to start actually making video games. The two biggest projects we did were a classic games project where we had to recreate as accurately as possible an oldschool 2d game (I did the original Zelda and remade the first dungeon), and an Indie game project where we basically did whatever we wanted as long as a game came out of it at the end. You also end up with a lot of elective slots open, though, so I took a usability testing course and an interface (menu, GUI, etc.) design course as well. In my usability testing course I actually got to test a game made by juniors and seniors doing an intermediate design class, which as far as I can tell is just a class where you get to make a game and possibly pair up with artists, usability testers, etc. from other classes to make it come together.
I've heard awful stuff about Full Sail. Legit awful stuff. Ringling I've heard has a good ANIMATION program, but I took a tour there, and their game design program is essentially just level design. Right now I'm at SCAD. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, I haven't started taking classes in the Game Design program yet (so I can't speak from personal experience), but I've heard good stuff about it, and I've seen a lot of the work from students in it, and it blows a lot of the modeling I've seen on FP and on Polycount out of the water. You learn modeling in Maya and zBrush, and from what I've seen we use Unreal. Seems like there's some transitioning towards Unity at the moment, but I can't really say. A lot of the students I've met here use it though. I'd say that half of choosing a good college is VISITING the college. Don't just look up stuff online. I thought Ringling was pretty good, then I visited. It's OK, but it's in a pretty awful neighborhood, and they mainly cater to illustration and animation, and very little else, even if they supposedly offer more. They also had a pretty high emphasis on the various companies that hire them out. That's not a good sign. If they have to be extremely commercial and glitzy to get your attention, that's BAD. Oh, and I've heard nothing but praise for Digipen. If you have the dosh, consider visiting and forming your own opinion.
[QUOTE=KnowProblem;38902405]I'd say that half of choosing a good college is VISITING the college. [/QUOTE] This. I didn't really know that USC was the right place until I went there and toured. Honestly I thought I'd never go there until I started walking around campus. Narrow down your list to a few colleges you're interested in and go visit them, walk around, talk to teachers, see if you can sit in on a class, etc. It's the only way to know for sure.
I've heard good things about Digipen but I would also take that with a grain of salt seeing as I hardly have any knowledge in any of this.
[QUOTE=KnowProblem;38902405]I've heard awful stuff about Full Sail. Legit awful stuff. Ringling I've heard has a good ANIMATION program, but I took a tour there, and their game design program is essentially just level design. Right now I'm at SCAD. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, I haven't started taking classes in the Game Design program yet (so I can't speak from personal experience), but I've heard good stuff about it, and I've seen a lot of the work from students in it, and it blows a lot of the modeling I've seen on FP and on Polycount out of the water. You learn modeling in Maya and zBrush, and from what I've seen we use Unreal. Seems like there's some transitioning towards Unity at the moment, but I can't really say. A lot of the students I've met here use it though. I'd say that half of choosing a good college is VISITING the college. Don't just look up stuff online. I thought Ringling was pretty good, then I visited. It's OK, but it's in a pretty awful neighborhood, and they mainly cater to illustration and animation, and very little else, even if they supposedly offer more. They also had a pretty high emphasis on the various companies that hire them out. That's not a good sign. If they have to be extremely commercial and glitzy to get your attention, that's BAD. Oh, and I've heard nothing but praise for Digipen. If you have the dosh, consider visiting and forming your own opinion.[/QUOTE] I am visiting Full Sail in January. About your school, what is the game development course like? If you happen to know. (different from design) [editline]20th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=The First 11'er;38902485]I've heard good things about Digipen but I would also take that with a grain of salt seeing as I hardly have any knowledge in any of this.[/QUOTE] Thinking about this too, I'm not a fan of the climate though (I like it warm :) ) although I don't want that to be a factor. Perhaps I'll visit it if I ever go visit USC
I really want to go to Digipen, but I'm afraid I wouldn't get enough money to rent an apartment for four years, and I'm afraid of getting stuck with a bunch of weird people in one apartment. I went to a small local tech college, which was a horrible decision, but I ended up dropping out after taking their "game design" class, which had jack shit to do with game design. So I'm not sure if my finical aid or anything will be affected because of it. I really want to get into Game Art Design, but I would love to learn some programming on the side as well.
[QUOTE=slayer20;38902581]I really want to go to Digipen, but I'm afraid I wouldn't get enough money to rent an apartment for four years, and I'm afraid of getting stuck with a bunch of weird people in one apartment. [/QUOTE] This is also a bit of a concern. I tend to stab those I don't like.
Don't ever attend a for-profit school. I'm doing University of Phoenix online currently because I had no choice living overseas here in Crete, Greece; as soon as I move back I'll transfer into a local university's Networking and Security program. I'd suggest just attending school for programming at a legitimate 4 year university.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;38902649]Don't ever attend a for-profit school. I'd suggest just attending school for programming at a legitimate 4 year university.[/QUOTE] Explain that first part. And I would do that, but going to a school for 4 years to learn something that isn't driven towards game development just isn't appealing to me. I'm not sure I'll be able to take having game development only be a hobby for the next 4 years. I'm willing to risk going to a more Game oriented school if it means doing something I love.
[QUOTE=Dakattack;38902749]Explain that first part. And I would do that, but going to a school for 4 years to learn something that isn't driven towards game development just isn't appealing to me. I'm not sure I'll be able to take having game development only be a hobby for the next 4 years. I'm willing to risk going to a more Game oriented school if it means doing something I love.[/QUOTE] A 'for-profit' school essentially means that they accept anyone who has the dosh to get in. So basically they don't actually care about your education, they just care about your money.
[QUOTE=Dakattack;38902749][G]oing to a school for 4 years to learn something that isn't driven towards game development just isn't appealing to me. I'm not sure I'll be able to take having game development only be a hobby for the next 4 years. I'm willing to risk going to a more Game oriented school if it means doing something I love.[/QUOTE] If you're really passionate about making games, you can do it on your own. There's already plenty of tools to get your foot into it. I started with just playing around RPG Maker (though I never made anything of it, it was still some good experimenting with game [i]design[/i].) In high school, I took a programming elective, which taught by making simple games like Pong. And during that time, I spent a lot of time at home just teaching myself new programming methods to [i]develop[/i] games. By the end of class, I was amongst the best programmer in the class. Come first semester of college, I decide to try to make a full game using the design and development I learned mostly on my own. Now it's arguable about how close I've stayed to my original goal, but I've already learned a fair bit about game design and development exclusively through self-experience. Moral of the story, you don't need a school to really teach you game design and development. Schools will more likely give you a taste of what it's like to work for a company instead. Companies are looking more for people who took their own initiative to learn design and development on their own time instead of just using things learned in a class. (Note: I say design [i]and[/i] development because one lesson I've learned is that those two are drastically different from each other.)
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