Wow. This was eye opening. Fuck these manufacturers for basically putting farmers on a leash. Right to repair should be nationwide law.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;53105880]Wow. This was eye opening. Fuck these manufacturers for basically putting farmers on a leash. Right to repair should be nationwide law.[/QUOTE]
This shit is a problem within the whole automotive industry, its not just these fuckers doing it. BMW, Ford, VW you think of a manufacturer and they all have these bullshit locked in electric systems that stop you repairing them if they go pop.
Why do you think there's so many scrap BMWs? Because the iDrive system dies and takes out the whole thing, and if you replace it, it refuses to work because its serial locked.
Shit like this breaks my heart. Here we are faced with growing landfills, the Earth is getting ruined over constant mining for conflict minerals that humans are killed over, employees are treated like shit in order to pump out new technology constantly, and we have literally everything we need to fix these problems.
We're just not allowed.
Thanks for posting this video. It was really eye-opening. Hell, if this is the stuff forcing us to turn into factory farms, and if it can be solved simply by having the right to repair your own machine, don't we have an obligation to not only make it legal, but to foster and encourage that?
Ah yes the old "government regulation" scare that corporations so often pull when they get called out for their bullshit. Working together just means figuring out a better way to fill their pockets.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;53105880]Wow. This was eye opening. Fuck these manufacturers for basically putting farmers on a leash. Right to repair should be nationwide law.[/QUOTE]
Didn't SCOTUS rule in a john deere case that you have the right to repair?
[QUOTE=Reagy;53105897]This shit is a problem within the whole automotive industry, its not just these fuckers doing it. BMW, Ford, VW you think of a manufacturer and they all have these bullshit locked in electric systems that stop you repairing them if they go pop.
Why do you think there's so many scrap BMWs? Because the iDrive system dies and takes out the whole thing, and if you replace it, it refuses to work because its serial locked.[/QUOTE]
Paradoxically [URL="https://electrek.co/2017/01/30/tesla-opening-up-service-replacement-parts/"]Tesla is the worst of the worst in this scenario[/URL], partially since all other automotive manufacturers uses subsystems designed by other companies, which are more or less standardized in house of said contractor companies, which in turn makes reverse-engineering trivial, since if you've busted one of them open from a specific manufacturer software-wise, then the other of their related computer subsystems falls like dominoes.
Source: I'm a Car mechanic who's royally pissed by the wankery with proprietary computer systems where you're either forced to get a original manufacturer (often shitty and) overpriced tester to figure out complex faults, or use a third-parties "all in one" tester systems which are also mediocre most of the time and works better on some models than other.
At least with physical things you can diagnose it because there isn't some arbitrary digital wall in the way due to DRM and walled garden bullshit.
I remember the right to repair regarding phones, apple products ETC.
These companies don't want you to own your property. Imagine a world where everything was like this, you didn't own anything, it was all the companies that did, and you were at the will of the companies to fix things.
[QUOTE=J!NX;53106001]I remember the right to repair regarding phones, apple products ETC.
These companies don't want you to own your property. Imagine a world where everything was like this, you didn't own anything, it was all the companies that did, and you were at the will of the companies to fix things.[/QUOTE]
Companies don't want you to own anything, they want you to essentially lease or rent because that's more profitable to them.
Just look at the current software situation with anything IT related, but the problem is, complex electronic hardware needs software to operate too, and that's a gateway for them to control how you use your hardware device no matter what it is.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53105989]Didn't SCOTUS rule in a john deere case that you have the right to repair?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but they heavily qualified it so that it only applies to this case specifically. So, we don't have the right to repair, unless it's a tractor.
Apart from the content, this was a very well made documentary. It kept me interested the entire time.
the john deere sticker at 1:21 is great
[t]https://i.imgur.com/i1PRQEZ.png[/t]
This is why we stand against DMCA, gang. Not just because of video games, but because it affects many industries. I understand that they added exemptions from DMCA in these cases but this isn't stopping manufacturers from rallying against these exemptions as illustrated in the video.
I've said this many, many times on these forums, and I'll say it again; [U]DRM is inherently unethical because it's software writers saying you don't legally have the write to run the hardware you own on your own terms.[/U] This can be as simple as a developer placing restrictions on video game software, or as critical as our entire agricultural industry being prevented from running their farms. I've been aware of this issue for a while now but I've not seen it explained in this much depth before.
This is why we protest these things. So that people like them can live their lives, as they have should have the right to. Don't lose sight of that, it's more important than many realize.
I remember back in elementary school we had an entire section of a chapter in our history books dedicated to the concept of an assembly line and how manufacturers would specialize in creating one specific part of an item, such as a musket, so that if a part breaks, you can replace the part with an identical part instead of having to throw out the entire musket because the part is too difficult to replicate.
Now it's like "oh shit, the usb-c port on my phone that cost 50 cents isn't working, time to buy an entirely new fucking phone."
[QUOTE=Squad1993;53105880]Wow. This was eye opening. Fuck these manufacturers for basically putting farmers on a leash. Right to repair should be nationwide law.[/QUOTE]
And hopefully it pushes well beyond tractors. Right to repair as an idea encompasses everything, and it's ridiculous how far companies like Apple have gone to get their lobbyists to convince politicians it's a bad idea to approve. A few years ago, they managed to convince a judge that by replacing a resistor on a Macbook board with an identical resistor, it's no longer an Apple product. It's fraudulent to provide a service repairing that device when you aren't handing back a "real" Apple product at the end of it all. And the judge believed them.
I hope this is something that's able to really push through. I've been following the tale of Right to Repair for the last several years. I'm glad to see it's starting to finally get some mainstream recognition. Hopefully more people catch wind of this and realize just how bad it really is if companies are allowed to continue fucking with consumers like this. Protection of intellectual property my fucking dick, nobody is asking to alter or modify your intellectual property. We just want to use the tools you've created to fix the shit ourselves without relying solely on you. But it's a long and rough political battle filled with a ton of bullshit.
A common argument that many of these companies make against Right to Repair is "by giving these things away, we're letting anybody do whatever they want with these products, they could do very malicious things!" which is a useless argument to make because lots of diagnostics software does exist, in an illegal form, that you have to go and find yourself. So...locking all of it down so only authorized service providers can use the software obviously isn't doing dick if Average Joe can scour a few pages into Google and check a few forum posts to find a paid Russian VPN service that allows him to Teamviewer into a remote server containing any software he might need to perform diagnostics of his equipment.
I recommend anyone interested to look up full hearings on various Right to Repair voting sessions. There are a handful out there, and you can hear just how far these companies go in straight up lying to convince the politicians that right to repair is bad.
[video=youtube;HUx0gReDFkE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUx0gReDFkE[/video]
[video=youtube;4eyidi2HaMY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyidi2HaMY[/video]
Welcome to the wonderful world of electronic components.
This has been going on since we first started putting electronic components in vehicles to a point where a car can be remotely shut off by a dealership if you miss a single payment.
[editline]3rd February 2018[/editline]
But this goes beyond that, not just given example of a broken USB but in almost all design now parts are being designed to break on purpose and then be almost impossible to replace.
Being able to learn how things work is being abstracted as much as the very idea of work is.
[editline]3rd February 2018[/editline]
However, lets take this out into the longer term, for many people who are in favor of transhumanism, how would you respond to your new arm basically being locked behind a paywall. Or a leg? Or even your brain. You have to go to a specific manufactuer, you can't go to another person skilled in that knowledge.
This is all about control and making money, by making repairs impossible or incredibly expensive, people end up dumping and spending more money on something they really don't need.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/7oI6Trz.png[/IMG]
Good god this quote from Deere makes me angry
"Why'd you call the government on us? We wanted to tell you to get fucked some more."
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;53106569][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/7oI6Trz.png[/IMG]
Good god this quote from Deere makes me angry
"Why'd you call the government on us? We wanted to tell you to get fucked some more."[/QUOTE]
Technically speaking he's not wrong. Customers, dealers and manufacturers [i]should have[/i] come together. They didn't because he and his company didn't play ball. Therefore, government regulation that will add costs with no associated value. He has has no right to complain; he and his buddies should have seen this coming. Congratulations Ken Golden, you just fucked yourself over. I'm glad you understand the principle behind why this happened.
Will the right to repair be yet another gop/dem wedge issue?
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53107430]Will the right to repair be yet another gop/dem wedge issue?[/QUOTE]
I doubt it, as you can see right to repair is a big issue for farmers, who are largely conservative. Any GOP lawmaker attacking right to repair is going to lose a big chunk of his support base.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53107430]Will the right to repair be yet another gop/dem wedge issue?[/QUOTE]
A republican attacking right to repair would be like a republican attacking the 2nd ammendment.
Right to Repair is a pretty easy bipartisan issue to get behind. Losing votes in the next election isn't worth lining your pockets with Jon Deer money.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53107563]A republican attacking right to repair would be like a republican attacking the 2nd ammendment.
Right to Repair is a pretty easy bipartisan issue to get behind. Losing votes in the next election isn't worth lining your pockets with Jon Deer money.[/QUOTE]
I just feel a bit like no issue is completely safe from fox after the politicization of the environment, healthcare, and net neutrality. But I hope this is a bipartisan issue that manages to bring the parties ever so slightly closer together.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53107563]Losing votes in the next election isn't worth lining your pockets with Jon Deer money.[/QUOTE]
Are you absolutely positively sure about that? Because the Republican go-to solution to this "losing votes" problem so far has been to gerrymander the fuck out of their states and use those "donations" from corporate sponsors to fund their campaigns and hide their dirt.
As long as they can distract and gaslight the nation as they are now, they wont lose enough voters over something like this to actually scare them.
(though this really shouldn't be a political issue at all, everyone should support allowing people to actually fix the shit they buy rather than throwing more control into the hands of the corporations)
[QUOTE=Reagy;53105897]This shit is a problem within the whole automotive industry, its not just these fuckers doing it. BMW, Ford, VW you think of a manufacturer and they all have these bullshit locked in electric systems that stop you repairing them if they go pop.
Why do you think there's so many scrap BMWs? Because the iDrive system dies and takes out the whole thing, and if you replace it, it refuses to work because its serial locked.[/QUOTE]
This is p much why I want to buy something older and used without the overload of software systems in newer bullshit.
I probably won't, because I don't have that mechanical eye to spot out a good buy, sadly.
[QUOTE=Reagy;53105897]This shit is a problem within the whole automotive industry, its not just these fuckers doing it. BMW, Ford, VW you think of a manufacturer and they all have these bullshit locked in electric systems that stop you repairing them if they go pop.
Why do you think there's so many scrap BMWs? Because the iDrive system dies and takes out the whole thing, and if you replace it, it refuses to work because its serial locked.[/QUOTE]
It can be done, in fact one of the reasons I like Scotty Kilmer (despite his voice which is annoying as fuck) is because he makes some excellent points about the shittiness of some tech systems that pretty much exists for dealerships to make continued revenue out of customers. Even if he wanted to help them, he simply couldn't because they wall of sections of some repairs by dealer only restrictions. Not to mention some of them being shady as fuck and starting to use specific proprietary tools to work around what is effectively bad design just because it's cheap for them.
Case in point being keyfobs and keyless entry systems, the latest fad in automobiles which are hard as fuck to program if they go bad. For some brands you can't even do that, you need special dealer codes.
He pretty much makes a case to avoid buying Mercedes and high end luxury cars because for every technical problem you fix, there are about a bajillion other sensors that need to be reset on the computer for it to work, extending the time it takes to repair. Not to mention the costs involved to fix said computers. Honestly, as far as automobiles are concerned, two things are getting abundantly clear:
a) Don't even bother buying new, that initial depreciation value can help pay for the (now) added expense of computers going bad, along with other mechanical maintenance (which is a whole other bucket of worms, considering shoddy design). Let someone else eat that cost for you. :v:
b) Even if you are buying used, don't even come near a modern used Bimmer or Merc with a bargepole. If you can afford to maintain it, you can afford to buy it new. If you can only afford to buy it used, you likely [I][B]cannot[/B][/I] afford to maintain it.
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