• Federal Court Strikes Down Mandatory Drug Testing of Welfare Applicants
    52 replies, posted
[quote]KEY WEST, Fla. — A federal judge on Tuesday struck down as unconstitutional a Florida law that required welfare applicants to undergo mandatory drug testing, setting the stage for a legal battle that could affect similar efforts nationwide. Judge Mary S. Scriven of the United States District Court in Orlando held that the testing requirement, the signature legislation of Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican who campaigned on the issue, violated the protection against unreasonable searches. “The court finds there is no set of circumstances under which the warrantless, suspicionless drug testing at issue in this case could be constitutionally applied,” she wrote. The ruling made permanent an earlier, temporary ban by the judge. [/quote] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/us/florida-law-on-drug-testing-for-welfare-is-struck-down.html?_r=0[/url]
Let's finance Addictions! NSA is 100% legal! Did all Federal judges lost their fucking mind?
Good. Similar to how you don't automatically install breathalyzer-interlocked ignitions for all cars unless there's individual suspicion of drunk driving.
[QUOTE=TorashVD;43390584]Let's finance Addictions! NSA is 100% legal! Did all Federal judges lost their fucking mind?[/QUOTE] With that logic, when you drop welfare what happens when potential drug addicts need money to buy more drugs?
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43390607]With that logic, when you drop welfare what happens when potential drug addicts need money to buy more drugs?[/QUOTE] Burglary, robbery, creative expressions of one's right to bear arms?
Good. There was a study and it found out that less than five percent actually used drugs. There was just a huge amount of wasted money on this. I was following it since I used to live in Florida and was on the border to a seedier spot of town. The governor is such a shithead. [editline]2nd January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TorashVD;43390584]Let's finance Addictions! NSA is 100% legal! Did all Federal judges lost their fucking mind?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.politifact.com/florida/promises/scott-o-meter/promise/600/require-drug-screening-for-welfare-recipients/[/url] Oh.. [quote][b]While the law was in effect from July through October 2011, about 2.6 percent -- or 108 of 4,046 people -- tested positive for drugs, the most common being marijuana.[/b][/quote]
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43390607]With that logic, when you drop welfare what happens when potential drug addicts need money to buy more drugs?[/QUOTE] Idea: Only give them welfare while they are attending weekly rehabilitation groups or something
Good. Warrantless, suspiciousness searches (which is what drug tests ARE, in the most invasive way) are unconstitutional and should be restricted as such.
[QUOTE=TorashVD;43390666]Idea: Only give them welfare while they are attending weekly rehabilitation groups or something[/QUOTE] Who's paying for those groups? Them? They obviously can't afford it. When will they find the time to go to these groups between their 2 dead end minimum wage jobs that will fire them if they take time off? You're basically laughing in the face of reason and statistics. Oh well. Fun fact for you, the money spent to administrate the tests costs more than just giving them welfare.
Considering the attitude most people here seem to have about drugs I'm surprised that more of you aren't for this. I see no reason why drug testing, which is expensive and time-consuming, should be a mandatory part of welfare applications. There are all sorts of things people could waste welfare checks on and drugs are just one, especially considering alcohol is still perfectly acceptable and I don't see anyone calling for mandatory sobriety for welfare applicants.
D'ohhh boy I can't wait for the facebook arguments to start
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;43390740]Who's paying for those groups? Them? They obviously can't afford it. When will they find the time to go to these groups between their 2 dead end minimum wage jobs that will fire them if they take time off? You're basically laughing in the face of reason and statistics. Oh well. Fun fact for you, the money spent to administrate the tests costs more than just giving them welfare.[/QUOTE] Those groups are free... And quote your "Fun Fact" please.
[url]http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/27/2532851/utah-spent-30000-catch-12-drug-users-welfare/[/url] I mean, it took me all of 5 seconds to google "costs more to drug test welfare" to get pages and pages of results... Also those groups aren't free. Nothing is free, there's a cost there. Also I'm going to come right out and call you a hypocrite. You're against the NSA and what they do but are in agreement with something that's guilty until proven innocent. I guess you're only against things that directly effect you and not those dirty poor sucking on welfare but driving BMWs (that don't exist and were created in Ronald Reagan's dementia ridden head)
[QUOTE=TorashVD;43390961]Those groups are free... [/QUOTE] It's not volunteer work, so it's not free. Just because you aren't personally footing the bill doesn't mean it costs nothing.
It's kind of a double edge sword to be honest. On one hand, why should taxpayer's money be used to fund people buying drugs and what not? But on another hand, unreasonable searches are defined as "unconstitutional" and really shouldn't be allowed. Personally, I don't think people know the welfare scam rate isn't as high as it is made out to be. I think it was >18% (if anyone can cite some creditable statistics that would be great). I think the people who honestly need it aren't a problem, but the people who scam the system which are the problem. But with a scam rate of >~18% is it really worth it to spend the money to drug test thousands of people on a regular basis?
[QUOTE=TorashVD;43390584]Let's finance Addictions! NSA is 100% legal! Did all Federal judges lost their fucking mind?[/QUOTE] "A judge made a ruling I dont agree with, obviously hes brain dead for not agreeing with me"
-snip- (stop posting before bed....) Arbitrarily drug testing the poor is profiling, and profiling is bad.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;43391187][url]http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/08/27/2532851/utah-spent-30000-catch-12-drug-users-welfare/[/url] I mean, it took me all of 5 seconds to google "costs more to drug test welfare" to get pages and pages of results... Also those groups aren't free. Nothing is free, there's a cost there. Also I'm going to come right out and call you a hypocrite. You're against the NSA and what they do but are in agreement with something that's guilty until proven innocent. I guess you're only against things that directly effect you and not those dirty poor sucking on welfare but driving BMWs (that don't exist and were created in Ronald Reagan's dementia ridden head)[/QUOTE] I had things like, Alcoholics Anonymous in mind, and even if everything WAS free, it is better to treat a person than to finance his addiction. You wouldn't recommend a potential suicide to buy a gun, you would recommend him to find help. And don't straw man my argument, I want to test someone before he gets money to be eligible to get it and I find being a (HEAVY) drug user shouldn't get welfare unless he isn't trying to get rid of his problem. I would rather see my money get used to help people out of their problems instead of using it to finance someones addiction, which is most probably the fact for heroin, crack or meth users. Also I didn't had "soft" drugs in mind, I don't see any reason for marijuana users to be treated differently. And unrelated fun fact: There are in fact people on welfare who drive BMW's in GERMANY, but this is mostly due to the lower price here, and they are trying to change the law so peoplpe on Welfare can't buy any highly expensive products :v:
AA has a really low success rate, and most of those people want to be there. You'll never realistically get people to quit by forcing them to go to counseling groups, especially when they mostly fail under the best circumstances.
[QUOTE=TorashVD;43390584]Let's finance Addictions! NSA is 100% legal! Did all Federal judges lost their fucking mind?[/QUOTE] PROFESSIONAL TIPS WELFARE RECIPIENTS THAT WERE TESTED IN FLORIDA WERE LESS LIKELY TO BE DRUG USERS THAN THE GENERAL POPULATION OH HEY GUESS WHAT ELSE THE COMPANY THAT WAS DOING THE TESTING HAD A PERSONAL CONNECTION TO THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE, RICK SCOTT HE CO FOUNDED IT
You need a good reason to drug test somebody. Theres no proof that someone applying for welfare is more likely to be a drug user than anyone else.
One less "guilty until proven innocent" aspect of society, thank fuck.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43392521]You need a good reason to drug test somebody. Theres no proof that someone applying for welfare is more likely to be a drug user than anyone else.[/QUOTE] How much do you want to bet that the stories of drug-addicted welfare queens are from [I]sensationalist editorials?[/I]
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43392521]You need a good reason to drug test somebody. Theres no proof that someone applying for welfare is more likely to be a drug user than anyone else.[/QUOTE] It appears to me the US has a pretty rough attitude towards the less fortunate.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;43392614]It appears to me the US has a pretty rough attitude towards the less fortunate.[/QUOTE] The USA is the only place at has at-will type employment as far as I'm aware. They use the guise of being a meritocracy to allow discriminating and enforcing draconian rules towards the less fortunate.
One thing to point out that this wasn't the whole US, this was Florida. And yeah, Florida has an issue with drugs, but most of the people on welfare there definitely not gonna waste it on drugs and booze, they're gonna need to survive one way or another. I honestly think this is good, as it costs too much to test someone and in the end it's clear they're not on drugs. And it's easy to fool some drug tests, such as using Spice which won't appear on some drug tests, making the test useless and a waste of money and time.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43392670]The USA is the only place at has at-will type employment as far as I'm aware. They use the guise of being a meritocracy to allow discriminating and enforcing draconian rules towards the less fortunate.[/QUOTE] what?
At-will employment. You can fire your workers for any reason at all. If I heard you support the democrats I can fire you because I'm your boss and you should be lucky to have a job at all peasant.
"WE NEED TO FIX THE DEFICIT!" "Also while we're at it let's just tack on a few more dozen million in expenses so our welfare money doesn't go to druggies, that should help."
If I have to piss in a cup to get a job these people can do the same to get some government assistance.
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