Taliban Tally-Ho: Capture Capital of Kunduz, Pardon Provincial Prisoners
26 replies, posted
[quote]The Afghan provincial [B]capital of Kunduz has largely fallen into "the hand of enemies,"[/B] Afghanistan's Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqqi said late Monday.
Sediqqi had said earlier that Afghan security forces, backed by air power from the Afghan army, were holding Taliban insurgents who were targeting a prison at bay, the provincial police chief's compound and some other targets.
Fighter planes still were flying over Kunduz, but the gunfights had ended, and authorities were preparing to recapture the city from the Taliban as soon as possible, Sayed Sarwar Hussaini, a spokesman for the Kunduz police chief, said.
[B]Earlier Monday, the insurgents seized the main roundabout in the city and made it to the prison, where they freed more than 500 inmates, who flooded the streets of Kunduz, Hussaini told CNN.[/B]
One of the released inmates told CNN, "We were hearing gunshots throughout the day, but it was 4:00 p.m. when the Kunduz prison guards left the compound. Then, the inmates broke all the doors and fences and started running towards the main gate."
"As soon as we opened the main gate, we saw a group of armed Taliban outside the gate. They told us that we were free and could go home. ... We all headed towards our homes," he said.
The Taliban also claimed to have seized a 200-bed hospital -- posting photos to social media that they claimed proved their control of the facility.
[B]Sediqqi said at least four civilians had died and 50 others were wounded as Taliban forces were firing heavy weapons indiscriminately throughout the city.[/B]
In addition, 25 Taliban fighters were killed, Sediqqi said, and two Afghan policemen died and four others were wounded.
Taliban leader Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Mansour issued a statement, congratulating fighters for successfully taking over Kunduz, and urging them to keep residents safe.[/quote]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/world/afghanistan-kunduz-taliban-attack/index.html[/url]
Here we go again.
Gr8, except we haven't pulled completely out of Afghanistan so we have forces there to respond
14 years, and 1 trillion dollars well spent.
Afghanistan living up to it's legacy of no foreign army ever "winning"
[QUOTE=Srillo;48784407]14 years, and 1 trillion dollars well spent.[/QUOTE]
You're forgetting the 3,486 men who went there and died, let alone Afghani dead.
Another bullshit useless war that solved nothing and only served to make weapons manufacturers fat and happy.
[QUOTE=zerglingv2;48785084]Afghanistan living up to it's legacy of now foreign army ever "winning"[/QUOTE]
You'd think someone would have gotten the hint at some point, but Greek, British and Indian, Russian, and now American soldiers have had to die over this miserable country, not to mention the millions of Afghans who lost their lives in those conflicts.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48785096]You're forgetting the 3,486 men who went there and died, let alone Afghani dead.
Another bullshit useless war that solved nothing and only served to make weapons manufacturers fat and happy.[/QUOTE]
To be honest if idiots hadn't kept demanding the army pull out and instead let the army finish the job like it wanted to this wouldn't have happened.
I have a friend in the army who was saying about how the army is annoyed at how they're being forced to pull out of Afghanistan before the job was done because it essentially means all those soldiers died for nothing.
And you know what that means:
More refugees!
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48785273]To be honest if idiots hadn't kept demanding the army pull out and instead let the army finish the job like it wanted to this wouldn't have happened.
I have a friend in the army who was saying about how the army is annoyed at how they're being forced to pull out of Afghanistan before the job was done because it essentially means all those soldiers died for nothing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah man it's unbelievable. They were this close to killing [I]all[/I] the terrorists but were forced out just before the job was done. Damn shame.
That's not the US's main job in Afghanistan
It's to set up the ANA so it can fight for itself
This also happened in Iraq. We didn't finish the job
Yeah, unfortunately it's not an easy job or we'd have been out of there long ago. The Taliban is not ready to give up and the city faring populace is not ready to defend tribal land.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48785273]To be honest if idiots hadn't kept demanding the army pull out and instead let the army finish the job like it wanted to this wouldn't have happened.
I have a friend in the army who was saying about how the army is annoyed at how they're being forced to pull out of Afghanistan before the job was done because it essentially means all those soldiers died for nothing.[/QUOTE]
I don't want to demean the Army or the men that served and died there, but if you can't get the job done in over a decade, the job isn't ever going to get done.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48785426]Yeah man it's unbelievable. They were this close to killing [I]all[/I] the terrorists but were forced out just before the job was done. Damn shame.[/QUOTE]I'm sure this is difficult for somebody like you to understand, but it stopped being about "killing all the terrorists" when we effectively curbstomped the Taliban into hiding.
Since then it's been about building a fucking country.
[editline]29th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48785637]I don't want to demean the Army or the men that served and died there, but if you can't get the job done in over a decade, the job isn't ever going to get done.[/QUOTE]Maybe they could get the job done if two things went away:
#1: Shitheads going "YA WELL WE GOT OSOMA HE DEAD BRING TROOPS HOME"
#2: Shitheads trying to profit from causing failure in the process.
We've somehow made a success with the ANA, they're largely independent and somehow they can manage to fight stoned out of their minds unlike the Iraqi army who strip naked and flee when dudes in Toyota pickups show up. (abandoning their MRAPs, humvees, and M1 Abrams, by the way)
Maybe it's all that wild homosexual sex every Thursday, or there is a god and he's got a fucked up sense of humor.
If you read on it tells how 25 taliban were killed to 2 policemen and 4 further wounded. They must have put up some form of defense only to be overwhelmed by numbers one might assume, let's not be too hasty in our judgements.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48786017]I'm sure this is difficult for somebody like you to understand, but it stopped being about "killing all the terrorists" when we effectively curbstomped the Taliban into hiding.
Since then it's been about building a fucking country.
[editline]29th September 2015[/editline]
Maybe they could get the job done if two things went away:
#1: Shitheads going "YA WELL WE GOT OSOMA HE DEAD BRING TROOPS HOME"
#2: Shitheads trying to profit from causing failure in the process.
We've somehow made a success with the ANA, they're largely independent and somehow they can manage to fight stoned out of their minds unlike the Iraqi army who strip naked and flee when dudes in Toyota pickups show up. (abandoning their MRAPs, humvees, and M1 Abrams, by the way)
Maybe it's all that wild homosexual sex every Thursday, or there is a god and he's got a fucked up sense of humor.[/QUOTE]
It should not take almost half a generation to rebuild a country that was invaded and occupied within months.
We invaded in 2001 (2002?) and we got Bin Laden in 2011. Between those times, the #1 reason is invalid.
As for #2, I don't think it was that problematic to prolong nation building and occupation for nearly 15 years.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48787461]It should not take almost half a generation to rebuild a country that was invaded and occupied within months.
We invaded in 2001 (2002?) and we got Bin Laden in 2011. Between those times, the #1 reason is invalid.
As for #2, I don't think it was that problematic to prolong nation building and occupation for nearly 15 years.[/QUOTE]
The whole 'reconstruction' costed MORE then the Marshall plan used to rebuild europe.
It is a ginormous problem involving mismanagement of funds, warped expectations, stupidity and else;
[URL="http://warisboring.com/articles/this-is-why-america-failed-to-rebuild-afghanistan/"]This article on war is boring is great.[/URL]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48785273]To be honest if idiots hadn't kept demanding the army pull out and instead let the army finish the job like it wanted to this wouldn't have happened.
I have a friend in the army who was saying about how the army is annoyed at how they're being forced to pull out of Afghanistan before the job was done because it essentially means all those soldiers died for nothing.[/QUOTE]
Poor dudes....
How can one be so naive....
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48787461]It should not take almost half a generation to rebuild a country that was invaded and occupied within months.
We invaded in 2001 (2002?) and we got Bin Laden in 2011. Between those times, the #1 reason is invalid.
As for #2, I don't think it was that problematic to prolong nation building and occupation for nearly 15 years.[/QUOTE]
...yeah it should? I don't think people understand the main reason why Afghanistan has been so difficult: cultural challenges. The Afghani people have lived tremendously backwards for centuries now, in poverty and misery, under enormous religious pressures, political instability, tribalism, etc.
Who here honestly believed in the first place that we could just roll into this country, occupy it, and within a few months to even a decade completely undo all that bullshit and transform it and its people into modern human beings of the globalized world? It's not that simple; resistance was always going to be a factor-- if not from the militant groups operating there, then from the people themselves when confronted with this radical change to their way of life (people, especially older people, tend to resist things that are different/changed from what they're normally used to).
"It should not take almost half a generation to rebuild a country that was invaded and occupied within months"? What? Yeah, it should. In fact, it should take GENERATIONS, considering how long these cultural problems we were struggling with in the first place have been in place: they've existed for centuries now; many generations previously have lived and died under them, and this current generation continues to live with them.
The victory for Afghanistan will only be achieved once its youth have been won. Change the mindset of the country's native population, and you will change the entire course of the country's future. It's not enough to just go there and build roads, schools, hospitals, government buildings, supply doctors and help train policemen/soldiers, amend laws and give institutional advice, provide funds and material aid, etc. You have to completely re-engineer its people socially to learn to utilize these things, accept these things, and make them want these things and make them see how they can use them for the improvement of their lives. And yes actually, these are things which take generations to instill within people; the old generations will resist these changes, the new generations will be more willing to accept them. When the youth inherit the country, then you'll see progress occur.
[editline]30th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=dreukrag;48788789]The whole 'reconstruction' costed MORE then the Marshall plan used to rebuild europe.
It is a ginormous problem involving mismanagement of funds, warped expectations, stupidity and else;
[URL="http://warisboring.com/articles/this-is-why-america-failed-to-rebuild-afghanistan/"]This article on war is boring is great.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Thank you for posting this article. It highlights the other issues we had to contend with beyond the natives themselves.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48789906]Poor dudes....
How can one be so naive....[/QUOTE]
well they joined the army so what do you expect
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48787461]It should not take almost half a generation to rebuild a country that was invaded and occupied within months.
We invaded in 2001 (2002?) and we got Bin Laden in 2011. Between those times, the #1 reason is invalid.
As for #2, I don't think it was that problematic to prolong nation building and occupation for nearly 15 years.[/QUOTE]You'd be singing a different tune if that Nazi insurgency thing had played out after WWII, something that likely would have gone through if Heydrich wasn't assassinated. It would have taken decades to root out Nazism, and in reality we still occupied both Germany and Japan for decades after the war despite no large insurgency campaigns. It's gonna take awhile to rebuild a country, actually scratch that, it's gonna take awhile to [I]build[/I] a country since the governments prior to the ones we installed were run by despots and dictators.
That second point is still a big fucking problem and it's [I]always[/I] been a problem for victorious forces trying to build a nation out of conquered lands and there have been varying approaches to solving it. For example, the Romans were very keen on using a whole variety of execution methods to deal with corrupt officials getting in the way, from straight up stabbing motherfuckers to crucifying them. I can tell you there hasn't been a single instance in history that mirrors our approach though, we largely ignore [I]major[/I] human rights violations and rampant corruption because of how it would look if we did what we needed to do. (which isn't necessarily a problem in and of itself) In the past there hasn't been free press with such a high degree of access which means anything that happens can and will be criticized with as much sensationalism as possible. See, the reason why the second point is severely problematic because nothing can be done to address it, so the process is broken to shit and highly delayed, and on top of that there's an active insurgency, and on top of both of those there are stupid, uninformed people who think talking and gentle hugs can solve all the world's problems and shout about all the injustice of it all. (which is fine, even the idiots of the world have a fundamental right to free speech, but they're still idiots and I'm going to insult them)
[QUOTE=Govna;48792067]...yeah it should? I don't think people understand the main reason why Afghanistan has been so difficult: cultural challenges. The Afghani people have lived tremendously backwards for centuries now, in poverty and misery, under enormous religious pressures, political instability, tribalism, etc.
[/QUOTE]
Poor fucking excuse, if there was going to be such trouble like that then we should have left much earlier anyway then.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48793625]Poor fucking excuse, if there was going to be such trouble like that then we should have left much earlier anyway then.[/QUOTE]
Not an excuse, it's the truth. We could've just left much earlier... OR we could have gone ahead and stayed put, legally pursued the people who were carelessly mismanaging funds and construction efforts (thereby undermining our efforts) and strongly encouraged them with the threat of punishment to get their shit together, and ignored the people here at home who wanted us to leave at every moment's opportunity for every excuse imaginable. Honestly, one of the biggest problems we had which we weren't able to overcome in the end before we left was this exact same defeatist attitude: "Lets just give up and go home, because we'll never win or change anything". Yeah, with that dogshit thinking, you won't be able to do anything, because you won't ever try to do anything in the first place-- much less be willing to commit yourselves and your resources to the long-term struggle.
You don't have to be in a "by Jingo!" mindset, but it's important to have at least some commitment and enthusiasm if you're trying to instigate change. We lacked that all across the board from the onset; our administrators lacked it, our general populace lacked it... and speaking with personal acquaintances of mine who served in Afghanistan (and some as well in Iraq), most of our troops lacked it as well. And we never tried to do anything to change any of that around, to encourage people that what they were doing mattered and was good for the sake of humanitarianism (nevermind regional stability and international politics; we ousted the Taliban when they were the government in power and helped organize a proper replacement... that was worthwhile).
This doesn't even signify failure, so I don't know why people are acting like it's the end of everything we were fighting for. It's an unfortunate annoyance, but not much more. The insurgents took Kunduz. It's big, but it's hardly the hottest and most important ticket in Afghanistan, and the Afghan military isn't giving it up that easily; they're fighting right now to take it back. Hopefully, we'll offer them aerial support and make their job easier. And beyond that, we'd also be validating our efforts over the last 10+ years in the process by helping them out.
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/01/us-afghanistan-attack-idUSKCN0RU07Y20151001[/url]
Afghan government forces are currently counter attacking. Conflicting reports on who has control over what.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48787461]It should not take almost half a generation to rebuild a country that was invaded and occupied within months.
We invaded in 2001 (2002?) and we got Bin Laden in 2011. Between those times, the #1 reason is invalid.
As for #2, I don't think it was that problematic to prolong nation building and occupation for nearly 15 years.[/QUOTE]
Reconstruction Era of the American Civil War was 12 years, that was AFTER the war was entirely over. And then it would be another 20 years until the south stabilized and really felt like it was apart of the USA.
Now, youre talking about rebuilding a nation that is not of our own people, is an entire different culture, is not entirely cooperative, the list goes on. But yea lets blame America entirely because we're all incompetent and the internet users army association could manage this billions times better with their 20/20 hindsight.
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