So, basically, this question was nagging me since a friend had asked me a few months back- is cybering with a minor illegal?
For the sake of this post and the resulting discussion, cybering/cybersex will be defined as any form of text of a sexual nature, where no video, pictures, or other medium is exchanged. So no webcams, no photos, etc.
The short answer is- [I]Usually[/I].
The long answer-
I did some research. As it ends up, it's a tricky, complicated mess. What I can for certain state is illegal is:
-Enticing a minor of any age to have real-life sexual intercourse or to do anything of a sexual nature with an adult, or to break sex laws.
-Exchanging sexual videos, photos, etc of a minor, or to a minor.
Now here's the tricky part: Both State and Federal law has something to say about this. The Feds say that it is legal to speak sexually to a minor, as long as no out-of-internet sex laws are broken, or none of the two above statements occur. Age does not apply. Other sources state that the Feds say that it is outright illegal.
Now, alongside Federal law are the state laws, that, while varying, all seem to be similar. Most states have laws falling into three categories:
-Outright illegal.
-Age of Consent applies, as long as the two above statements aren't met
-Completely legal, as long as the two above statements aren't met
Which states have which is a coin toss. Why? Because of each state's definition of the word 'elicit' and the definition of 'sex'. Most states have some minor clause hidden far down in some bill that covers the whole thing with something always similar to:
"It is illegal for anyone to engage in conversation by electronic medium to a minor intending to elicit sex."
Now, some states say that sex is anything physical. There MUST be a physical connection, or the ability to physically see something sexual. The elicit sex, someone must intend to have real-life sex with a minor.
Some states say that sexual text itself constitutes as sex or pornography, and therefore is illegal with a minor. Elicit simply means they're looking to have cybersex.
Few states take age of consent into account. Those above the age of consent are completely free, while those under are still breaking the law, regardless of eliciting. It only becomes illegal once real-life contact or photos/video becomes involved. Others states say that age of consent has no part, because the act is not physical, it's virtual, and sometimes falls under pornography laws.
Regardless of this, most cases int he US, where direct eliciting into real-life sex, intent to elicit into real-life sex, and sharing of photos, video, etc, of a minor is NOT involved, and where the minor is over the age of consent in any state or states involved, are thrown out.
To put it basically, in most cases, cybersex is a non prosecutable act- it is legal, that is- until physical contact is made or photos/videos are exchanged, as long as the minor is over the age of consent for their state. Exceptions are sometimes made in cases where video/photos are exchanged between consenting minors.
In the end, both the Federal and State governments have contradicted themselves time and time again, interpreted and re-interpreted. If you're under the age of 18 in the US, it's a coin toss as to whether your sexually-explicit chat with your friend or with a complete stranger is legal or not. But in the end, it comes down to this: You likely are not going to break any laws, or be persecuted, if no intent to take it past text is shown, and the minor is over their state's age of consent.
Maybe.
So the safest route- don't do it. If you're going to, make sure both partied are over 18.
Keep in mind this information, the ultimate defining clause:
"18 U.S.C. § 2422(b) prohibits the use of a computer by an adult to send messages on the Internet to persuade and entice a person under 18 years of age to engage in sexual activity that constitutes a criminal offense."
So, FP, I'm curious. What are your views/opinions? Is cybersex right, is it wrong? Concerning minors, should age of consent be involved? Should it be illegal? Should it be legal? What about the contradiction between federal and state laws? The contradictions between separate states?
Ok let's get cyberin' like the discovery channel.
It's not tricky and complicated to the government. Any sex act, even exchanging naughty text messages, with a minor is considered illegal. If you don't believe me, try it.
[QUOTE=Hyperpower!;21297234]It's not tricky and complicated to the government. Any sex act, even exchanging naughty text messages, with a minor is considered illegal. If you don't believe me, try it.[/QUOTE]
Actually, like I said, it's not illegal- as long as no pictures are involved. Many classic cases of pictures between minors can be found, but there are few cases involving simple text. It gets more complicated if those involved are both over the age of consent.
at the end of the day, you have to wonder why the person cybers with minors.
aka still sicko.
[QUOTE=Detective P;21297302]Actually, like I said, it's not illegal- as long as no pictures are involved. Many classic cases of pictures between minors can be found, but there are few cases involving simple text. It gets more complicated if those involved are both over the age of consent.[/QUOTE]
Ever see Dateline's [i]To Catch A Predator[/i]? Most often all they need to put someone in jail is their chat logs. Sure, the idiots showed up at their doorstep, but for what? To have sex with a minor? What minor? They were chatting with an adult pretending to be a child. [i]Pretending[/i]. So all they have on these people are their intentions to have sex with a minor.
So if intention alone gets you in trouble, actually cybering under any pretense with an actual minor would still be illegal. It doesn't matter what's written down, only what the district attorney says at your trial, and what the judge rules.
[QUOTE=Hyperpower!;21297427]Ever see Dateline's [i]To Catch A Predator[/i]? Most often all they need to put someone in jail is their chat logs. Sure, the idiots showed up at their doorstep, but for what? To have sex with a minor? What minor? They were chatting with an adult pretending to be a child. [i]Pretending[/i]. So all they have on these people are their intentions to have sex with a minor.
So if intention alone gets you in trouble, actually cybering under any pretense with an actual minor would still be illegal. It doesn't matter what's written down, only what the district attorney says at your trial, and what the judge rules.[/QUOTE]
But, like I said, different states interpret the law differently.
Intentions to, what? Have physical sex with a minor- definitely a crime. everyone in To Catch a Predator blatantly broke the law. They took it out of the realm of IM, and went to bring it into a physical act. It was directly and blatantly obvious that they were intending to elicit sex in concerns with a minor. They may have been chatting with an adult but they intended to have sex with a minor. That's the incriminating evidence.
Now, if two people simply talk about sexual exploits, or roleplay, or ask and tell, or whatever, and neither one makes any attempt at having actual sex, or any attempt to meet, see, or interact with in any other way that the ways I've stated, is that intent to have sex with? Is that eliciting sex?
But you could be right- some states do indeed interpret the law the same as you.
[QUOTE=Daemon;21297411]at the end of the day, you have to wonder why the person cybers with minors.
aka still sicko.[/QUOTE]
Well, being sexually attracted to minors, in and of itself, isn't illegal. Acting on it is, and the law seems to vary about what constitutes "acting on it".
Seeing as the United States don't apply states laws but rather a [B]THINK OF THE CHILDREN[/B] :byodood: policy, you shouldn't have to think so throughly about this
[QUOTE=Detective P;21297544]Now, if two people simply talk about sexual exploits, or roleplay, or ask and tell, or whatever, and neither one makes any attempt at having actual sex, or any attempt to meet, see, or interact with in any other way that the ways I've stated, is that intent to have sex with? Is that eliciting sex?.[/QUOTE]
In my eyes, it's definitely to elicit sex. If someone roleplays or acts out a sexual fantasy, even if its just kept online, it's still wrong. But of course, that's my interpretation, you're right, the technicalities create loopholes, but if we're talking purely ethics here, to me it's a no brainer what said individual is seeking if they're knowingly "cybering" with a minor. I'm going to face plant on my keyboard now because I've taken too many sedatives.
I think what's best to do is to mind our own damn businesses, it's simple, and requires little reasources.
I Believe:
If an adult (18+) cyberswith a minor (17-) and the message contains:
Plans to meet
Description of the act (place, time, etc)
Or anything else that would link the conversation to the real world, It should be deemed illegal.
As for everything else?
The court should take into consideration:
duration of the conversation
Consistancy of contact (chatting) between both parties.
[editline]01:40AM[/editline]
Everything else?
In the air :v:
Why did your friend ask you if having cybersex with a minor is illegal? :raise:
I don't care for legality, its just downright weird.
I put on my robe and wizard hat...
[quote]bloodninja: Baby, I been havin a tough night so treat me nice aight?
BritneySpears14: Aight.
bloodninja: Slip out of those pants baby, yeah.
BritneySpears14: I slip out of my pants, just for you, bloodninja.
bloodninja: Oh yeah, aight. Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat.
BritneySpears14: Oh, I like to play dress up.
bloodninja: Me too baby.
BritneySpears14: I kiss you softly on your chest.
bloodninja: I cast Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman.
BritneySpears14: Hey...
bloodninja: I meditate to regain my mana, before casting Lvl. 8 Cock of the Infinite.
BritneySpears14: Funny I still don't see it.
bloodninja: I spend my mana reserves to cast Mighty F*ck of the Beyondness.
BritneySpears14: You are the worst cyber partner ever. This is ridiculous.
bloodninja: Don't f*ck with me bitch, I'm the mightiest sorcerer of the lands.
bloodninja: I steal yo soul and cast Lightning Lvl. 1,000,000 Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a Lvl. 2 Druid.
BritneySpears14: Don't ever message me again you piece of ****.
bloodninja: Robots are trying to drill my brain but my lightning shield inflicts DOA attack, leaving the robots as flaming piles of metal.
bloodninja: King Arthur congratulates me for destroying Dr. Robotnik's evil army of Robot Socialist Republics. The cold war ends. Reagan steals my accomplishments and makes like it was cause of him.
bloodninja: You still there baby? I think it's getting hard now.
bloodninja: Baby?
-------------------
bloodninja: Ok baby, we got to hurry, I don't know how long I can keep it ready for you.
j_gurli3: thats ok. ok i'm a japanese schoolgirl, what r u.
bloodninja: A Rhinocerus. Well, hung like one, thats for sure.
j_gurli3: haha, ok lets go.
j_gurli3: i put my hand through ur hair, and kiss u on the neck.
bloodninja: I stomp the ground, and snort, to alert you that you are in my breeding territory.
j_gurli3: haha, ok, u know that turns me on.
j_gurli3: i start unbuttoning ur shirt.
bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't wear shirts.
j_gurli3: No, ur not really a Rhinocerus silly, it's just part of the game.
bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge your ass.
j_gurli3: stop, cmon be serious.
bloodninja: It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass.
bloodninja: I stomp my feet, the dust stirs around my tough skinned feet.
j_gurli3: thats it.
bloodninja: Nostrils flaring, I lower my head. My horn, like some phallic symbol of my potent virility, is the last thing you see as skulls collide and mine remains the victor. You are now a bloody red ragdoll suspended in the air on my mighty horn.
bloodninja: Goddam am I hard now.
--------------
BritneySpears14: Ok, are you ready?
eminemBNJA: Aight, yeah I'm ready.
BritneySpears14: I like your music Em... Tee hee.
eminemBNJA: huh huh, yeah, I make it for the ladies.
BritneySpears14: Mmm, we like it a lot. Let me show you.
BritneySpears14: I take off your pants, slowly, and massage your muscular physique.
eminemBNJA: Oh I like that Baby. I put on my robe and wizard hat.
BritneySpears14: What the f*ck, I told you not to message me again.
eminemBNJA: Oh ****
BritneySpears14: I swear if you do it one more time I'm gonna report your ISP and say you were sending me kiddie porn you f*ck up.
eminemBNJA: Oh ****
eminemBNJA: damn I gotta write down your names or something
[/quote]
i cyber with little children
[editline]03:21PM[/editline]
and then tell them i'm actually a boy and watch them freak out
[QUOTE=D2K5S1;21305407]i cyber with little children
[editline]03:21PM[/editline]
and then tell them i'm actually a boy and watch them freak out[/QUOTE]
well that isn't creepy at all... :colbert:
[QUOTE=Scoooooby;21305516]well that isn't creepy at all... :colbert:[/QUOTE]
It is because he looks like a girl.
[QUOTE=mikfoz;21305401]I put on my robe and wizard hat...[/QUOTE]
Why are you back? :argh:
Meh it's good to see you.
[QUOTE=mikfoz;21305401]I put on my robe and wizard hat...[/QUOTE]
Oh god that was amazing.
I cybered once in wow...
It was in the forrest... The person i turned out to be cybering with was the char of the guild leader sister...
I got kicked from the guild....
We had a tally of who went to the most raids... I was third :((
I find no point in Cyber-Sex...it just doesn't really make sense. Telling someone something you could have just said in person...oh wait you can't because you stay in your house all day playing PC games eating Cheetos.
[QUOTE=Tools;21305607]Why are you back? :argh:
Meh it's good to see you.[/QUOTE]
He had to go for a while.
I'm pretty much going to throw just this one little bit. But any type of text chat without pictures, videos and all that flashy shit pretty much is all on the requirements for being illegal (Depending on state).
Mainly because of the whole fact you can't even have internet neutrality and post "sarcastic" comments about anything that could be deemed "Harmful" in any way. Like a fake bomb threat.
In some terms, cybersex wouldn't be so much of an issue seeing how both parties do not see how each other look, And if nobody complains, then why bother giving a shit?
[QUOTE=D2K5S1;21305407]i cyber with little children
[editline]03:21PM[/editline]
and then tell them i'm actually a boy and watch them freak out[/QUOTE]
You too?
[QUOTE=roflwaffle;21299357]I Believe:
If an adult (18+) cyberswith a minor (17-) and the message contains:
Plans to meet
Description of the act (place, time, etc)
Or anything else that would link the conversation to the real world, It should be deemed illegal.
As for everything else?
The court should take into consideration:
duration of the conversation
Consistancy of contact (chatting) between both parties.
[editline]01:40AM[/editline]
Everything else?
In the air :v:[/QUOTE]
So by your rules an 18 year old "cybering" with a 17 year old should be illegal? I'm not really getting what you're saying clearly, or I'm just not reading it correctly.
Well I know there was a child sex exploitation prosecutor that said to be prosecutable there has to be actions beyond simple IM sex chat
But I'd play it safe and just go for people your own age, that way, In the clear!
And with the To Catch a Predator show, they had their chatlogs but they would always ask them to bring items to "Show intent"
There has to be more than just chat, of course a 60 year old Cybzing a 13 year old is going to look way worse in they eyes of a Judge in such a Grey Area, rather than say a 19 year old cybzing with a 17 year old
Good, because I'm twenty and once cybered a goddamn fifteen year old (When I was nineteen) who said she was eighteen and shouldn't even have been on that site FFFFFFFFFF-
[QUOTE=mikfoz;21305401]I put on my robe and wizard hat...[/QUOTE]
oh my god it's mikfoz
quick , call the facepunch news
[QUOTE=Daemon;21297411]at the end of the day, you have to wonder why the person cybers with minors.
aka [B]still [I]a[/I] sicko.[/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
