German Comedian Faces Jail Over Lewd Poem About President Erdogan - Polidicks

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/07/a-german-comedian-read-a-lewd-poem-about-turkeys-erdogan-now-he-could-face-jail-time/?postshare=7891460077168931&tid=ss_tw[/url] [IMG]http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/226419.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Activists have long criticized the Turkish government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan for being thin-skinned in the face of criticism and for unfairly targeting journalists. Now a television host is facing potential jail time for reading a satirical poem about Erdogan that suggested the Turkish leader engaged in bestiality, among other things. This case has a twist, however. The host is German. And the jail time he faces would be in Germany. Jan Boehmermann, a comedian and writer known for his acerbic style, read the poem March 31 on his satirical talk show "Neo Magazin Royale," which is broadcast by German public broadcaster ZDF. Sitting in front of a Turkish flag and a small framed portrait of Erdogan, Boehmermann recited the poem, which suggested the president had sex with goats and that he also loved to "repress minorities, kick Kurds and beat Christians while watching child porn," Deutsche Welle reports. Addressed directly to Erdogan, the poem also included subtitles for Turkish viewers. Boehmermann's decision to recite the poem hadn't come out of the blue. Last month, Turkey had summoned Germany's ambassador to complain about a song aired by a rival satire program on another German public broadcaster, NDR. That video, “Erdowie, Erdowo, Erdogan,” had shown protesters clashing with Turkish forces. “Equal rights for women: beaten up equally,” the song went. Before reading his poem, Boehmermann said that the previous video was defensible under Germany's concept of freedom of speech. Then, as he began to read, he suggested that his own "abusive" poem would not be covered by this concept. The cruder nature of Boehmermann's poem seemed designed to ruffle feathers. ZDF swiftly deleted the video of the poem from its website and has combed YouTube to remove copied footage. A spokesperson for German Chancellor Angela Merkel released a statement Monday that condemned the poem, explaining that "satire takes place within our country’s press and media freedom, which — as you know — is not unlimited."[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Yet it is German law, rather than Turkish law, that could land Boehmermann in prison. On Wednesday, Gerd Deutschler, a prosecutor in the city of Mainz, told reporters that Boehmermann was being investigated and could potentially face charges under section 103 of the German penal code. That section states that "whosoever insults a foreign head of state ... shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine." Prosecutors have said that at least 20 "private individuals" have filed complaints against Boehmermann, Reuters reports.[/QUOTE]

What lunacy. All of these headlines about people getting offended, its like suddenly I'm in middle school again...

[QUOTE=SashaWolf;50099429]What lunacy. All of these headlines about people getting offended, its like suddenly I'm in middle school again...[/QUOTE] I'm more curious why this is a law in the first place. "Insult a foreign head of state get up to 3 years" I could understand sometime more along the lines or slander or libel but just insulting?

what a retarded fucking law

[quote]Before reading his poem, Boehmermann said that the previous video was defensible under Germany's concept of freedom of speech. Then, as he began to read, he suggested that his own "abusive" poem would not be covered by this concept.[/quote] Sounds to me he knew exactly his shit wouldn't be protected under free speech law, so he knew he would get in trouble with the law.

Sounds like Merkel is a cunt. [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] O shit, plz don't send me to jail I take it back

Germany has some fucked up laws

What is this? Germany got no freedom of speech?

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50099530]What is this? Germany got no freedom of speech?[/QUOTE] Everyone acts like this is a surprise for Germany. Ignoring their backwards ban on video games that features Nazi content (e.g. Call of Duty), this is consistent with Germany's application of free speech laws. Germany is not only state in the EU that does this. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair#Chomsky.27s_response[/URL]

Damn Germany is such a shithole with Merkel.

[QUOTE=Dauge;50099709]Damn Germany is such a shithole.[/QUOTE] Rude.

As much as i love germany, censorship and freedom of content is pretty shitty dealt with

[QUOTE=Skunky;50099711]Rude.[/QUOTE] Only by German law.

[QUOTE=Dauge;50099709]Damn Germany is such a shithole with Merkel.[/QUOTE] Are you serious Have you been to Germany

We'll...in a way saying that someone is into bestiality when they're not or whatever is slander and defamation of character. So i guess i can understand why the law would apply, but still kinda extreme.

[QUOTE=MR-X;50099774]We'll...in a way saying that someone is into bestiality when they're not or whatever is slander and defamation of character. So i guess i can understand why the law would apply, but still kinda extreme.[/QUOTE] You'd still be liable if you, while in Germany, broadcasted 'Obama is a useless fuckstick' or 'David Cameron is a slimy motherfucker'. They're still insulting heads of state [i]yet are completely true[/i].

[QUOTE=Dauge;50099709]Damn Germany is such a shithole with Merkel.[/QUOTE] Merkel didn't institute this law. Nor would she have the political authority to do that. She's a diplomat and international representative with a strong veto power, not the queen. The majority of the political influence does not lie with her. On a day-to-day basis she's basically a babysitter trying to get members of different political parties to play nice with each other and reach compromises instead of gridlocking the system. I seriously don't know why people are pointing to the heads of state of democracies like they're ones pulling all the important strings. That's exactly the kind of power concentration democracy in general and the trias politica concept in particular are designed to avoid. I get that it's more difficult to associate "government" with a hall of representatives and the bureaucratic apparatus behind every one of them, but surely it's still common knowledge that this is where the bulk of the Legislative power resides, no?

[QUOTE=Dauge;50099709]Damn Germany is such a shithole with Merkel.[/QUOTE] lmao what even with merkel it's one of the most-livable countries on this whole planet

Merkel isn't even relevant to this.

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;50099851]Merkel didn't institute this law. Nor would she have the political authority to do that. She's a diplomat and international representative with a strong veto power, not the queen. The majority of the political influence does not lie with her. On a day-to-day basis she's basically a babysitter trying to get members of different political parties to play nice with each other and reach compromises instead of gridlocking the system. I seriously don't know why people are pointing to the heads of state of democracies like they're ones pulling all the important strings. That's exactly the kind of power concentration democracy in general and the trias politica concept in particular are designed to avoid. I get that it's more difficult to associate "government" with a hall of representatives and the bureaucratic apparatus behind every one of them, but surely it's still common knowledge that this is where the bulk of the Legislative power resides, no?[/QUOTE] Honestly I think it'd due to us. Americans like to focus in that the president is the only part of government that truly matters, when in reality the Supreme Court and Congress are just as, if not more, important then the presidency. That then slowly seeped over to the rest of the world along with other shit like movies and that sort of thing.

[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50099863]lmao what even with merkel it's one of the most-livable countries on this whole planet[/QUOTE] not for long it seems

What the fuck? The Law reads like this: [quote] Wer ein ausländisches Staatsoberhaupt oder wer mit Beziehung auf ihre Stellung ein Mitglied einer ausländischen Regierung, das sich in amtlicher Eigenschaft im Inland aufhält, oder einen im Bundesgebiet beglaubigten Leiter einer ausländischen diplomatischen Vertretung beleidigt, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe, im Falle der verleumderischen Beleidigung mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft. [/quote] In short: He/She who insults a foreign Leader, who is currently IN Germany in his position as Leader will be punished with a prison term up to 5 years. In theory this law should only be applicable if he insults Erdogan while he is visiting Germany in his political role. Though this is written in such a shitty fashion that I'm not really sure. It says only the "highest government official" has to be on domestic soil for that, and this isnt always the leader of a country, so in some cases it can be applied against a chancellor for example. I have no idea how the turkish parliament works and who does what in the government, but this should be of importance. This law is utter bullshit and I'm amazed it even exists. This will be kinda interesting. Böhmermann has quite a following and is known for more critical stuff. If he reallly gets punished for that, it would be a huge blow to free speech in Germany. Having this law is shitty enough as it is, but it getting applied so freely is truly horrible. By the way, prosecution is still checking if § 103 can be applied to this situation, and if Böhmermanns poem can be counted as insult, instead of satire.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50100282]Honestly I think it'd due to us. Americans like to focus in that the president is the only part of government that truly matters, when in reality the Supreme Court and Congress are just as, if not more, important then the presidency. That then slowly seeped over to the rest of the world along with other shit like movies and that sort of thing.[/QUOTE] The irony being of course that the presidency is a weaker position than, for example, the Prime Minister in Britain.

What a disgrace, please ban Germany from the EU, it is necessary at this point.

What does this have anything to do with Merkel lol. Germany has the strictest speech law in Europe since WWII. For example, it is almost considered a taboo for saying racial slurs in Germany.

germany needs reforms to their laws. it's very troubling to see a developed first world country with laws that deem freedom of speech irrelevant.

[QUOTE=MaGGiFiXXX;50100321]What the fuck? The Law reads like this: In short: He/She who insults a foreign Leader, who is currently IN Germany in his position as Leader will be punished with a prison term up to 5 years. In theory this law should only be applicable if he insults Erdogan while he is visiting Germany in his political role. Though this is written in such a shitty fashion that I'm not really sure. It says only the "highest government official" has to be on domestic soil for that, and this isnt always the leader of a country, so in some cases it can be applied against a chancellor for example. I have no idea how the turkish parliament works and who does what in the government, but this should be of importance. This law is utter bullshit and I'm amazed it even exists. This will be kinda interesting. Böhmermann has quite a following and is known for more critical stuff. If he reallly gets punished for that, it would be a huge blow to free speech in Germany. Having this law is shitty enough as it is, but it getting applied so freely is truly horrible. By the way, prosecution is still checking if § 103 can be applied to this situation, and if Böhmermanns poem can be counted as insult, instead of satire.[/QUOTE] I suspect it was put in place to appease foreign officials being insulted face-to-face on visit here (and is probably quite old). That said, insulting people is illegal [URL="http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__185.html"]in[/URL] [URL="http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__187.html"]general[/URL] here, so even if this law in particular doesn't apply because Erdogan wasn't present, Böhmermann could still easily be hit with a fine (which I'm 100% sure he was aware of and expected when he did this, since he even announced it was illegal). I somehow doubt they'd go with the jail term, but I haven't read the poem in question. [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=SonicHitman;50100984]germany needs reforms to their laws. it's very troubling to see a developed first world country with laws that deem freedom of speech irrelevant.[/QUOTE] It's a matter of priorities: Free speech (freedom of expression here) is still very important in Germany, [URL="http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.html#p0015"]but human dignity trumps it by being the very first clause in German legislation[/URL] (and an explicit exception in article 5, the one about freedom of expression). In short it's the difference between having WBC and Scientology run around or not, which at least I personally find quite pleasant. Unless you really want to harm someone (or walk around with nazi insignia, but that's a slightly different matter) these laws don't affect you whatsoever, too. To me as someone who's grown up in Germany it's the US version of these priorities that's shocking, and it's pretty annoying to see people from elsewhere freak out about these laws when they find out about it. I can see where you're coming from when taking cultural differences into account though.

The spirit of the law is obviously designed to protect visiting heads of state against trolls and attention seekers. Not to censor citizens. How would you enforce that, anyway? German police scouring the internet for Germans saying rude things?

[QUOTE=V12US;50101333]The spirit of the law is obviously designed to protect visiting heads of state against trolls and attention seekers. Not to censor citizens. How would you enforce that, anyway? German police scouring the internet for Germans saying rude things?[/QUOTE] Usually it's someone reporting it to the police, as in this case. Böhmermann is really quite left-wing afaik, so he has ample political enemies who want to see him prosecuted over anything. [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Chaitin;50100795]What does this have anything to do with Merkel lol. Germany has the strictest speech law in Europe since WWII. For example, it is almost considered a taboo for saying racial slurs in Germany.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hate_speech_laws_in_France&oldid=649884790"]France's is slightly more strict[/URL], also having a clause against blasphemy (not enforced). If I'm not mistaken, the other laws limiting speech are applied more strictly in France than in Germany too though, the main difference in the other direction being that I don't know whether nazi insignia are illegal in France. (It is in fact illegal to insult or defame someone with discriminatory slurs in both countries, as it is in quite a few European countries that have anti-discrimination laws. Not using the words at all is more a cultural thing though, I think. There aren't many people here who'd have a good use for them.)

[QUOTE=Tamschi;50101291]... so even if this law in particular doesn't apply because Erdogan wasn't present, Böhmermann could still easily be hit with a fine (which I'm 100% sure he was aware of and expected when he did this, since he even announced it was illegal). I somehow doubt they'd go with the jail term, but I haven't read the poem in question. ...[/QUOTE] If you haven't seen the whole thing and are interested in it: [video=vimeo;161286715]http://vimeo.com/161286715[/video] The poem itself is of course pure slander/defamation. But the whole thing as an act really is criticism, and in my eyes at least, it's satire.