Israeli prime minister apologizes to Turkish leader over flotilla raid - Polidicks

[quote](CNN) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu phoned Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan on Friday to apologize for a 2010 Israeli commando raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla that killed several Turkish activists, the Israeli and Turkish governments confirmed.[/quote] [quote]Netanyahu made the call during an airport meeting with U.S. President Barack Obama before Obama departed Israel after his first visit to the Jewish state since taking office in 2009. He apologized for what happened and acknowledged "operational mistakes," and Erdogan accepted the apology for the raid on the Gaza-bound Mavi Marmara flotilla ship, a vessel transporting aid to Gazans and intent on breaking an Israeli sea blockade.[/quote] [quote]The once-close nations, who've had a falling out over Israel's policies and actions in the Palestinian territory of Gaza, also decided to normalize their fractured diplomatic ties, agreeing to return ambassadors to their posts.[/quote] [url]http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/22/world/meast/israel-turkey-apology/index.html?hpt=hp_t1[/url]

Better late than never I suppose

Still waiting for our apology Israel.

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40001976]Still waiting for our apology Israel.[/QUOTE] Who?

[QUOTE=smurfy;40001990]Who?[/QUOTE] They need to apologize to everybody for being such a baby.

[QUOTE=laserguided;40002010]They need to apologize to everybody for being such a baby.[/QUOTE] Hello Mr Bookmaker? I'd like to put :20bux: on that Israel will never apologize for being retarded & spoiled cunts.

[QUOTE=smurfy;40001990]Who?[/QUOTE] Ireland

Where's the apology for the unfair trial and execution of Adolf Eichmann? He was captured by mossad, and tried in Israel. A member of the Nazi regime tried in Israel. Did he really stand a chance? Basically they just murdered the guy and put him on trial just to look fair. There's no way he got a fair trial. That, and if you're commanded to do something and you're a member of the military, you do it. You're justified in doing so because you're under coercion. Should you not do it, you might find yourself imprisoned, executed, or tortured as a traitor or such. The state is responsible for providing the just cause. The soldiers are responsible for providing the just war. Should a soldiers be waging a war for which the state has unjust cause, the unjust war waged as the state would have it is the crime of the state, not the soldiers. Should the soldiers wage unjust war outside of the parameters specified by the state, then the soldier is still at fault.

[QUOTE=Irkalla;40002741]Where's the apology for the unfair trial and execution of Adolf Eichmann? He was captured by mossad, and tried in Israel. A member of the Nazi regime tried in Israel. Did he really stand a chance? Basically they just murdered the guy and put him on trial just to look fair. There's no way he got a fair trial. That, and if you're commanded to do something and you're a member of the military, you do it. You're justified in doing so because you're under coercion. Should you not do it, you might find yourself imprisoned, executed, or tortured as a traitor or such.[/QUOTE] They tried a Soldier? That's retarded, what did he have to do with extermination camps in the slightest?

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40002764]They tried a Soldier? That's retarded, what did he have to do with extermination camps in the slightest?[/QUOTE] According to wikipedia, he managed the logistics behind ghettos and concentration camps. Also of note is the violation of Argentina's sovereignty in capturing him.

[QUOTE=Irkalla;40002741]That, and if you're commanded to do something and you're a member of the military, you do it. You're justified in doing so because you're under coercion. Should you not do it, you might find yourself imprisoned, executed, or tortured as a traitor or such.[/QUOTE] I understand what you're saying, and it seems pretty shit for the bloke you're talking about, but individuals should still face repercussions for possible war crimes. If your captain tells you to execute some prisoners of war in cold blood, it's still a crime, even though someone told you to do it.

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;40002850]I understand what you're saying, and it seems pretty shit for the bloke you're talking about, but individuals should still face repercussions for possible war crimes. If your captain tells you to execute some prisoners of war in cold blood, it's still a crime, even though someone told you to do it.[/QUOTE] That creates a situation in which there is no right thing for the individual to do. Either road he takes will lead to punishment. There is no justice to be had in such a situation. In this situation, the captain is responsible for the executions in cold blood, not the executor himself. Imagine a situation in which I could kill you in a moment through some means which are not necessary to discuss for the sake of this argument. Using this, I coerce you to go steal items from a third party's home. Afterwards, I free you from these conditions and we never speak again. Were you guilty of burglary and larceny? No, you were not. For there to have been committed a crime, the perpetrator of the guilty acts must also, at the same time as the guilty acts occur, have a guilty mind. That is, to say, he must want to do the act, knowingly do the act, et cetera. You should get the point. Because it was not you who had the guilty mind, but I who had the guilty mind and used you to commit the guilty act, then it is I who am responsible for the crime.

[QUOTE=Irkalla;40002777]According to wikipedia, he managed the logistics behind ghettos and concentration camps. Also of note is the violation of Argentina's sovereignty in capturing him.[/QUOTE] So he knew what was going on? I mean, handling logistics he didn't really do anything did he?

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40002900]So he knew what was going on? I mean, handling logistics he didn't really do anything did he?[/QUOTE] Well, he basically stated how it should be done as far as A-to-B shit goes.

[QUOTE=Irkalla;40002897]Imagine a situation in which I could kill you in a moment through some means which are not necessary to discuss for the sake of this argument. Using this, I coerce you to go steal items from a third party's home. Afterwards, I free you from these conditions and we never speak again. Were you guilty of burglary and larceny? No, you were not. For there to have been committed a crime, the perpetrator of the guilty acts must also, at the same time as the guilty acts occur, have a guilty mind. That is, to say, he must want to do the act, knowingly do the act, et cetera. You should get the point. Because it was not you who had the guilty mind, but I who had the guilty mind and used you to commit the guilty act, then it is I who am responsible for the crime.[/QUOTE] Yes, I understand your point, they're both crimes, but one is justifiable and one isn't. I just can never agree with the notion of allowing someone to get away with a crime because they were just following orders.

Sounds like he should have been tried by an International court.

[QUOTE=Irkalla;40002741]Where's the apology for the unfair trial and execution of Adolf Eichmann? He was captured by mossad, and tried in Israel. A member of the Nazi regime tried in Israel. Did he really stand a chance? Basically they just murdered the guy and put him on trial just to look fair. There's no way he got a fair trial. That, and if you're commanded to do something and you're a member of the military, you do it. You're justified in doing so because you're under coercion. Should you not do it, you might find yourself imprisoned, executed, or tortured as a traitor or such. The state is responsible for providing the just cause. The soldiers are responsible for providing the just war. Should a soldiers be waging a war for which the state has unjust cause, the unjust war waged as the state would have it is the crime of the state, not the soldiers. Should the soldiers wage unjust war outside of the parameters specified by the state, then the soldier is still at fault.[/QUOTE] Adolf Eichmann avoided capture following World War II and fled to Argentina, if he had been captured he would have been tried at the Nuremberg Trials and would likely have received the death sentence (which half of the 24 accused war criminals received). Short Wikipedia summary of Adolf Eichmann: [quote=Wikipedia][b]Otto Adolf Eichmann (19 March 1906 – 1 June 1962) was a German Nazi SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and one of the major organizers of the Holocaust. Because of his organizational talents and ideological reliability, Eichmann was charged by SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich with the task of facilitating and managing the logistics of mass deportation of Jews to ghettos and extermination camps in German-occupied Eastern Europe.[/b] After World War II, he fled to Argentina using a fraudulently obtained laissez-passer issued by the International Red Cross. He lived in Argentina under a false identity, working a succession of different jobs until 1960. He was captured by Mossad operatives in Argentina and taken to Israel to face trial in an Israeli court on 15 criminal charges, including crimes against humanity and war crimes. He was found guilty and executed by hanging in 1962. He is the only person to have been executed in Israel on conviction by a civilian court.[/quote] Testimonies against Eichmann: [quote=Wikipedia] The trial began with various witnesses, including many Holocaust survivors, who testified against Eichmann and his role in transporting victims to the extermination camps. One key witness for the prosecution was an American judge named Michael A. Musmanno, who was a U.S. naval officer in 1945. Musmanno had questioned the Nuremberg defendants and would later go on to become a Justice of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. [b]He testified that the late Hermann Göring "made it very clear that Eichmann was the man to determine, in what order, in what countries, the Jews were to die."[/b][/quote] Eichmann on his own involvement in the Holocaust: [quote=Wikipedia][b]During cross-examination, prosecutor Hausner asked Eichmann if he considered himself guilty of the murder of millions of Jews. Eichmann replied: "Legally not, but in the human sense ... yes, for I am guilty of having deported them". When Hausner produced as evidence a quote by Eichmann in 1945 stating: "I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction." Eichmann countered the claim saying that he was referring only to "enemies of the Reich".[/b][/quote] Testimonies of former high-ranking Nazis against Eichmann: [quote=Wikipedia][b]Witnesses for the defence, all of them former high-ranking Nazis, were promised immunity and safe conduct from their German and Austrian homes to testify in Jerusalem on Eichmann's behalf. All of them refused to travel to Israel, but they sent the court depositions. However, almost none of the depositions supported Eichmann's "following orders" defence. One deposition was from Otto Winkelmann, a former senior SS police leader in Budapest in 1944. His memo stated that "(Eichmann) had the nature of a subaltern, which means a fellow who uses his power recklessly, without moral restraints. He would certainly overstep his authority if he thought he was acting in the spirit of his commander [Adolf Hitler]". Franz Six, a former SS brigadier general in the German security service, who was assigned the supervision of the occupation of the United Kingdom had Operation Sea Lion been successful, said in his deposition that Eichmann was an absolute believer in National Socialism and would act to the most extreme of the party doctrine, and that Eichmann had greater power than other department chiefs.[/b][/quote] Trial result: [quote=Wikipedia]After 14 weeks of testimony with more than 1,500 documents, 100 prosecution witnesses (90 of whom were Nazi concentration camp survivors) and dozens of defense depositions delivered by diplomatic couriers from 16 different countries, the Eichmann trial ended on August 14. At that point, the judges began deliberations in seclusion. On December 11, the three judges announced their verdict: Eichmann was convicted on all counts. Eichmann had said to the court that he expected the death penalty. On December 15, the court imposed a death sentence.[/quote] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_trial#Trial[/url] Please do not ever equate Adolf Eichmann to just being a "soldier" following orders, if you ever try to argue anything controversial again post links to your sources if you want to appear to have even the smallest amount of credibility.