How Hillary rigged the election against bernie - General

I usually Hate Sargon but he is just reading facts here. Trump is still worse but this makes me sick. [video]https://youtu.be/dtRj6x1jHuU[/video]

lets be reasonable, America isn't really willing to vote in a full blown socialist, no matter how good he is The right especially doesn't want him because "Socialism is socialism so socialism is bad"

[QUOTE=J!NX;51199435]lets be reasonable, America isn't really willing to vote in a full blown socialist, no matter how good he is The right especially doesn't want him because "Socialism is socialism so socialism is bad"[/QUOTE] If it's a choice between Bernie and Trump, he had a good shot.

[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;51199443]If it's a choice between Bernie and Trump, he had a good shot.[/QUOTE] If it was Trump VS Bernie, he probably would. Clinton VS Bernie, who knows, really

[QUOTE=J!NX;51199435]lets be reasonable, America isn't really willing to vote in a full blown socialist, no matter how good he is The right especially doesn't want him because "Socialism is socialism so socialism is bad"[/QUOTE] I really don't know why Bernie and Corbyn label themselves as socialists, sure some of their policies take inspiration from socialism but they're definitely not full blown socialists. Just seems like a good way of losing votes to people who say no because socialism to me.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;51199448]I really don't know why Bernie and Corbyn label themselves as socialists, sure some of their policies take inspiration from socialism but they're definitely not full blown socialists. Just seems like a good way of losing votes to people who say no because socialism to me.[/QUOTE] It's still socialism, it's just social democracy. (You are right though, Blair's 'third way' is also technically a socialist ideology)

the executive branch is nothing more than an avenue to pump money to lobbyists and special interest groups hillary will pump the most money as president, so the electoral college will choose her

Frankly while the "rigging" was still gross, ultimately it's a name recognition contest in both elections and the contest for the general is an advertising competition. Also Trump won't lose to a "rigged" system, it will be down to wearing his party's ideals as a garish coat. Also I find Sargon and his community are very good at double standards.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;51199448]I really don't know why Bernie and Corbyn label themselves as socialists, sure some of their policies take inspiration from socialism but they're definitely not full blown socialists.[/QUOTE] Compared to the right, they may as well be considered full blown socialist :v: "Full blown" is a bit hyperbolic but fuck, this country has such an irrational hatred towards the word that I hear Obama being called only by the worst "SOCIALIST". ANYTHING government or socialist is bad to a lot of people where I'm at (West NY suburbs). Compared to Trump, Bernies as socialist as we would be able to get without their fucking heads exploding. [editline]13th October 2016[/editline] I know some of my family is auto-against literally anything with the word "social" in it fuck that is annoying

[QUOTE=J!NX;51199435]lets be reasonable, America isn't really willing to vote in a full blown socialist, no matter how good he is The right especially doesn't want him because "Socialism is socialism so socialism is bad"[/QUOTE] I think the fact that Sanders did so well despite an organized media and party-backed campaign against him is evidence that he had a very good shot had the nomination process not been rigged by Clinton & Co.

[QUOTE=srobins;51199491]I think the fact that Sanders did so well despite an organized media and party-backed campaign against him is evidence that he had a very good shot had the nomination process not been rigged by Clinton & Co.[/QUOTE] whatever happens this november, americans have lost

[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;51199457]Frankly while the "rigging" was still gross, ultimately it's a name recognition contest in both elections and the contest for the general is an advertising competition. Also Trump won't lose to a "rigged" system, it will be down to wearing his party's ideals as a garish coat. Also I find Sargon and his community are very good at double standards.[/QUOTE] Sargon's pretty much a low-key conspiracy theorist. The things he says sound reasonable, if not somewhat misguided, when judged individually but when you put it all together there's a very clear pattern of "X is out to get us, bad things are gonna happen just like that one time..."

[QUOTE=srobins;51199491]I think the fact that Sanders did so well despite an organized media and party-backed campaign against him is evidence that he had a very good shot had the nomination process not been rigged by Clinton & Co.[/QUOTE] when I think about it I suppose it's really a lesson on the media shaping us more than we realize. And I suppose that is true yeah. if something bad or good happens to X, the media simply pretends it never happened and it simply didn't. Or they spin it the right way and people simply believe it regardless of its truth. Like, I go to any store, and I see, all the time, shit like this [t]http://dm9afq7zol1mi.cloudfront.net/naija.io/media/uploads/1100/83772c81e5fa33cc5995dd9ca7f53d68.png[/t] and this is just the shit gossip magazines do. People believe it regardless of how photo shopped it is. And I know people believe this shit because they keep buying it and thus giving money to the magazines publishers. This is just the [B]SMALL[/B] shit that isn't even political at all.

'its for the good of the republic that hillary doesn't get elected' and then we have trump, who is a million times worse. sounds like some right wing propaganda to me.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51199615]I do not understand how organized media and party-backed campaign equal rigging. Unless they moved ballot boxes and had 99% Clinton districts in Bernie counties, I dont think it was "rigged". The party should be able to reserve the right to promote the established party interests. I mean, Trump and GOP is a pretty example of what the other side of the coin looks like.[/QUOTE] Pick a different word then if you want to cry about useless pedantry.

[QUOTE=https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/5423] I've lived through many national conventions and have found that it's critical that all delegates, especially those representing losing candidates, emerge from the convention feeling that they have won something, achieved something tangible. I think this is terribly important especially with people like Bernie's sometimes self-righteous ideologues. We want them to go home happy and enthusiastic in working their asses off for Hillary. So here's my idea. Bernie and his people have been bitching about super delegates and the huge percentage that have come out for Hillary. Since the original idea was to bring our elected officials to the convention ex-officio >> ( because of the offices and the constituencies they represent), why not throw Bernie a bone and reduce the super delegates in the future to the original draft of members of the House and Senate, governors and big city mayors, eliminating the DNC members who are not State chairs or vice-Chairs. (Frankly, DNC members don't really represent constituencies anyway. I should know. I served on the DNC first as Executive Director and then as an elected member for 10 years.) So if we "give" Bernie this in the Convention's rules committee, his people will think they've "won" something from the Party Establishment. And it functionally doesn't make any difference anyway. They win. We don't lose. Everyone is happy. [/QUOTE] tl;dr DNC appealed to Bernie supporters by doing something they were already going to do, under the guise that Bernie made a difference Bernie voters got shafted into thinking the DNC cared about him and are using Berniebros to make Clinton president. Its disgusting.

I can kind of see why people are voting for Donald tbh, watching him call out Hillary is pretty satisfying

[QUOTE=Tacooo;51199664]I can kind of see why people are voting for Donald tbh, watching him call out Hillary is pretty satisfying[/QUOTE] Really? I mean I like seeing justice catch up with rich old white people more than anyone, but the way he went about it on the 2nd debate just made me feel sick, like our political process is just turning into a WWE shouting match.

[QUOTE=Saxon;51199681]Really? I mean I like seeing justice catch up with rich old white people more than anyone, but the way he went about it on the 2nd debate just made me feel sick, like our political process is just turning into a WWE shouting match.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the fact that both candidates are rich old white people, so it doesn't really make a difference either way.

[QUOTE=Saxon;51199681]Really? I mean I like seeing justice catch up with rich old white people more than anyone, but the way he went about it on the 2nd debate just made me feel sick.[/QUOTE] Focus groups giving live ratings during the debates peaked from Trump when he threatened to jail Clinton. Its ugly, bombastic, and dictator-like, but people [I]loved[/I] it because Clinton is a corrupt piece of shit, and Donald put her in her place on one of the most televised events in history. People love the asshole anti-hero archetype (Deadpool, Iron Man, ect). People who care about policy have already decided on who they will vote for. The undecided vote will boil down to people choosing what will be more satisfying to watch: Trump becoming the biggest loser in history and wasting $100 million of his own money, or denying Clinton the one thing she's wanted for decades and seeing all her corrupt networks and money she's accumulated over the years crumble before her (and possibly be jailed under a Trump presidency).

[QUOTE=Tacooo;51199664]I can kind of see why people are voting for Donald tbh, watching him call out Hillary is pretty satisfying[/QUOTE] Not to me, I see it as pandering. I don't think he actually cares Bernie was cheated, he's just saying it to get more "Tells it like it is" points. Plus it's an attack on Clinton, what else is he supposed to say? Saying "Clinton didn't cheat" wouldn't dissaude people from her. He's himself isn't a morally upstanding person and has cheated on several things, the government with taxes (Through legal loopholes), his wives, and citizens with Trump Uni. If he was in Hillary's position, he'd probably do the same thing to Bernie.

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51199721]Focus groups giving live ratings during the debates peaked from Trump when he threatened to jail Clinton. Its ugly, bombastic, and dictator-like, but people [I]loved[/I] it because Clinton is a corrupt piece of shit, and Donald put her in her place on one of the most televised events in history. People love the asshole anti-hero type archetype (Deadpool, Iron Man, ect). People who care about policy have already decided on who they will vote for. The undecided vote will boil down to people choosing what will be more satisfying to watch: Trump becoming the biggest loser in history and wasting $100 million of his own money, or denying Clinton the one thing she's wanted for decades and seeing all her corrupt networks and money she's accumulated over the years crumble before her (and possibly be jailed under a Trump presidency).[/QUOTE] But no one argues that Trump should be in jail for fraud on the university, or his personal charity Donald J Trump Charity being a fraudulent charity. Not one of them will ever care about that. I don't know if you do, but even you seem to give that a hard pass. Under a Trump presidency, I fully expect to see the power of the media be destroyed and official propaganda to become a real thing. Trump has made it clear, you're either with him, or against him. And having a giant tempermental child wielding the highest office in the land scares me a lot more than the supposed evil and villany of Clinton. Trump is just as bad honestly, and if you ever gave him power in the last 30 years, he'd have demonstrated that. The only reason you want Trump so bad compared to Clinton, as far as I can tell, is he hasn't had the time to fuck up politically as Clinton has. Give Trump a senatorial position, 10 years of time, and I gauruntee we'd have had leaks, or some kind of fraudulent behaviour on his part. I fully expect that from his presidency, as do his supporters it would seem. They're full well okay with him being the most authoritarian president in US history, whether he has the support of the house or senate or not.

[QUOTE=Zyler;51199703]Not to mention the fact that both candidates are rich old white people, so it doesn't really make a difference either way.[/QUOTE] It's like the Joker calling out Lex Luthor for being a crazy.

[QUOTE=Zyler;51199703]Not to mention the fact that both candidates are rich old white people, so it doesn't really make a difference either way.[/QUOTE] Doesn't make a different either way is a huge fucking stretch. Clinton is pretty much going to be vaguely progressive every once in awhile, Trump is literally going to roll that shit back. LGBT protection? Pence and Trump are very likely to axe that shit, especially by adding new supreme court justices that will make it hard to get back. Health care? Obamacare is trash, but it has had its pluses, they're going to roll it back (expensive as fuck to repeal, btw.) Middle east policy will be garbage for both but Trump very much looks like he's going to piss off our allies, hell, he already has. Race relations? Clinton is looking to implement several desired policies of BLM, Trump literally wants to militarize the police MORE. It's not hard to tell that the poor, lgbt, and racial minorities will get shafted much harder under trump than under Clinton. Hell, I'm upper-middle class so unless the economy literally implodes under Trump I'll be fine but I like to at least have a conscience.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51199631]"Sargon and his community" is pretty much garbage IMO. He is just an alt-righter but well spoken.[/QUOTE] Sargon really isn't an alt-righter, although I can understand why people would think so. He actually did a video that was pretty negative of the movement, basically calling them the right-wing equivalent of sjw's. [video]https://youtu.be/Cp0uq-QafYQ[/video]

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51199844]Doesn't make a different either way is a huge fucking stretch. Clinton is pretty much going to be vaguely progressive every once in awhile, Trump is literally going to roll that shit back. LGBT protection? Pence and Trump are very likely to axe that shit, especially by adding new supreme court justices that will make it hard to get back. Health care? Obamacare is trash, but it has had its pluses, they're going to roll it back (expensive as fuck to repeal, btw.) Middle east policy will be garbage for both but Trump very much looks like he's going to piss off our allies, hell, he already has. Race relations? Clinton is looking to implement several desired policies of BLM, Trump literally wants to militarize the police MORE. It's not hard to tell that the poor, lgbt, and racial minorities will get shafted much harder under trump than under Clinton. Hell, I'm upper-middle class so unless the economy literally implodes under Trump I'll be fine but I like to at least have a conscience.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the shit about him saying that 'the wages in america are too high,' wanting to commit war crimes and kill/torture terrorists families, and torture them just for the hell of it, wanting to use nukes as a first strike tactic (they're on the table), wanting to shut down things like the fda (with no other plan, just shutting down on regulations and thats it), and wanting even worse tax cuts than what bush did toward the mega rich. Very little trump says makes any sense at all in any context. But it's okay, better than getting someone who did something illegal. Trump surely hasn't done anything illegal at all for his own personal gain. Peoples moral compasses this election are all out of fucking wack and they can just ignore all this shit, these piles of evidence about all these awful things that trump has said, that trump wants to do, because hillary is corrupt (for working with businessmen) and trump...isn't, because he's a businessman himself.

[QUOTE=SelfishDragon;51199727]Not to me, I see it as pandering. I don't think he actually cares Bernie was cheated, he's just saying it to get more "Tells it like it is" points. Plus it's an attack on Clinton, what else is he supposed to say? Saying "Clinton didn't cheat" wouldn't dissaude people from her. He's himself isn't a morally upstanding person and has cheated on several things, the government with taxes (Through legal loopholes), his wives, and citizens with Trump Uni. If he was in Hillary's position, he'd probably do the same thing to Bernie.[/QUOTE] But he is pandering by telling the truth, Hillary is blatantly lying or dodging answers (from what I have seen). If I were to choose a politician based on morals, I would choose the most honest one. Tax evasion is scummy, but he is a business man and doing business means taking advantage of anything that can get you ahead. The loopholes are there to be exploited and like he said, she has done nothing to stop them and has probably benefited from similar loopholes. I haven't watched any debates but he makes some good points, I'm just saying that this might be a tighter election than people expect.

[QUOTE=Tacooo;51199899]But he is pandering by telling the truth, Hillary is blatantly lying or dodging answers (from what I have seen). If I were to choose a politician based on morals, I would choose the most honest one. Tax evasion is scummy, but he is a business man and doing business means taking advantage of anything that can get you ahead. The loopholes are there to be exploited and like he said, she has done nothing to stop them and has probably benefited from similar loopholes. I haven't watched any debates but he makes some good points, I'm just saying that this might be a tighter election than people expect.[/QUOTE] The whole tax situation is basically the only time where he 'tells the truth' about being a businessman. You're cherrypicking at one part, when Trump has constantly lied and dodged answers, throughout his entire campaign, and well before that. He lied when he said 'I never said global warming was fabricated by the chinese' when you can literally go on his twitter and find the tweet. He's constantly lied over donating to charities, 'self funding his campaign,' along with dozens upon dozens of other parts. You're only going to choose the one based on morals because you've barely seen anything about trump.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51199631]"Sargon and his community" is pretty much garbage IMO. He is just an alt-righter but well spoken.[/QUOTE] He's alt-something, but definitely not alt-right. Despite his attempts to (usually) be diplomatic with them the alt-right has never liked him, and when Sargon snaps back at them it's not pretty. They agree over a lot of things but Sargon's not racist, just selfish and paranoid.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51199631]"Sargon and his community" is pretty much garbage IMO. He is just an alt-righter but well spoken.[/QUOTE] This is basically the complete opposite way to make a sound argument.