Private company wins U.S. clearance to fly to the moon - Polidicks

[quote]A Florida-based company won U.S. government permission on Wednesday to send a robotic lander to the moon next year, the firm's founder said, marking the first time the United States has cleared a private space mission to fly beyond Earth’s orbit. The Federal Aviation Administration's unprecedented go-ahead for the Moon Express mission also sets a legal and regulatory framework for a host of other commercial expeditions to the moon, asteroids and Mars. As approved by the FAA's Office of Commercial Space Transportation, the privately held Moon Express, headquartered in Cape Canaveral, plans to fly a suitcase-sized lander to the moon for a two-week mission in 2017, said the company founder and chief executive Bob Richards. The spacecraft will carry a number of science experiments and some commercial cargo on its one-way trip to the lunar surface, including cremated human remains, and will beam back pictures and video to Earth, the company said. Before now, no government agency was recognized as having authority to oversee private missions beyond Earth's orbit, though a 1967 international treaty holds the United States responsible for any flights into space by its non-government entities. So far, only government agencies have flown spacecraft beyond the orbit of the Earth. To address the conundrum, the FAA, which already exercises jurisdiction over commercial rocket launches in the United States, led an interagency review of the Moon Express proposal, which included steps the company would take to ensure compliance with the 1967 Outer Space Treaty. “It’s been a very steep mountain,” Richards said in a telephone interview. “We had to lay the track at the same time that we wanted to do the mission.” Other companies are expected to soon follow the same framework.[/quote] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-business-moon-idUSKCN10E1D3[/url]

We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50822614]We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.[/QUOTE] ...That's [B][I]exactly why[/I][/B] clearance is required to fly to the moon. There's a UN treaty concerning preventing the claiming of territory in space. So that outer space and its resources aren't just simply conquered by the powerful and elite.

Imagine how fucking stupid it'd be if someone tried to sell land on the moon

So long as private companies don't start cordoning large stretches of the moon off and monetising it at the expense of humanity there won't be a problem.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50822632]Imagine how fucking stupid it'd be if someone tried to sell land on the moon[/QUOTE] You mean i didnt buy an acre of moonland for £10?

I want a moon rock

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50822614]We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile back in reality, the enormous cost of getting something off of Earth and into orbit, then transferring to a lunar orbit, landing, prospecting a good mining area, mining, sorting through the rock to find things of value, then getting all of that back to Earth, is a cost that would vastly outweigh any money that could be made from selling the very limited number of commodities that were mined, even with a 'mined on the Moon!' price mark-up. Hint: Getting even 1kg into Earth orbit costs around $20,000. And that's not even a quarter of the journey of a 'mining the Moon' mission. Mining in outer space belongs in the same area of science fiction as 'humanity colonising the stars' - it's not going to happen. The only way it would happen is if we became so dependant on those resources and they became so scarce on Earth, that we had no other choice. Well I suppose it's more realistic than interstellar colonisation, but still.

[QUOTE=certified;50822626]...That's [B][I]exactly why[/I][/B] clearance is required to fly to the moon. There's a UN treaty concerning preventing the claiming of territory in space. So that outer space and its resources aren't just simply conquered by the powerful and elite.[/QUOTE] that treaty also has a gigantic asterisk at the end of it

I actually was curious about this recently. Say that a nation decides to sack up and try to colonize mars. Would that country own mars?

[QUOTE=ZakkShock;50822698]I actually was curious about this recently. Say that a nation decides to sack up and try to colonize mars. Would that country own mars?[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be recognized by anyone and the rest of the world would be upset with you, but when it comes down to it, ownership goes to the one that can defend it. If you had with you a big fleet of super space marines, then no one could really stop you from claiming Mars as your own.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50822614]We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.[/QUOTE] Not cost effective yet

[QUOTE=OvB;50822712]It wouldn't be recognized by anyone and the rest of the world would be upset with you, but when it comes down to it, ownership goes to the one that can defend it. If you had with you a big fleet of super space marines, then no one could really stop you from claiming Mars as your own.[/QUOTE] Seconding this I mean, what are you gonna do if someone manages to colonize the moon on their own? Hell if a private company does it, they're basically forming a new country and can negotiate trade with every part of the world in exchange for sexy space data.

[QUOTE=certified;50822626]...That's [B][I]exactly why[/I][/B] clearance is required to fly to the moon. There's a UN treaty concerning preventing the claiming of territory in space. So that outer space and its resources aren't just simply conquered by the powerful and elite.[/QUOTE] Dude screw that, we as a planet should stand up as the strongest, and if sacrificing the moon is our requirement for an exploding economy and scientific studies? Then go ahead and do it, stop living in the dark ages still.

Space mining and resource extraction won't become mainstream until resources are required for the sake of having resources, rather than to be resold for profit. Mostly because as detailed above the cost of getting up, mining, and getting back down (and pioneering ways to do all that no less) is so much higher than what you'd actually make in profits bar finding some magical adamantium substance or some shit.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50822632]Imagine how fucking stupid it'd be if someone tried to sell land on the moon[/QUOTE] [url=https://www.lunarland.com/]Long Live American Capitalism.[/url] Part of me being somewhat resentful to how the states basically controls the planet isn't at all surprised you have to fucking get cleared by them of all people. Just fucking setup in another country and launch out of there.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50822614]We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.[/QUOTE] I'm wondering if gold would even be worth the cost of transport from the moon to earth.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50822614]We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.[/QUOTE] excuse me but i think its gonna mess with the orbit of the moon if you mess with its mass and that brings another giant amount of fuck-huge issues we shouldnt be dealing with, it'd just stack on top of the issues we already have at the moment, and that's just because we've done something as (at first sight) insignificant as burning fossil fuels. if that alone is capable of causing so much disruption, imagine what it would mean if you mine out huge chunks of our only natural sattelite, which just so happens to dictate a lot of the oceans, and our own orbit let us leave one thing in peace for once

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;50822635]So long as private companies don't start cordoning large stretches of the moon off and monetising it at the expense of humanity there won't be a problem.[/QUOTE]Well technically the moon and space itself could be claimed this way due to the way international law would handle a permanent structure on the moon. Since it basically uses maritime law as a basis that means any structure will have an imaginary bubble around it that's under the jurisdiction and responsibility of whoever owns the vessel, I forget off-hand how far this extends. So basically if I stub my toe outside your fancy space habitat [I]you're[/I] responsible for it, despite the fact that I never set foot inside. So going off of that a clever grid of cheap habitats could claim a large amount of real estate, you could even just have a hexagon pattern of subterranean passages and go "yep, that's all part of this one-man space shack" and it would count by technicality. Sure, some dickhead could tunnel [I]under[/I] your tunnels and do the same thing but at that point you have to wonder if it wouldn't be easier to go somewhere else. [QUOTE=OvB;50822712]It wouldn't be recognized by anyone and the rest of the world would be upset with you, but when it comes down to it, ownership goes to the one that can defend it. If you had with you a big fleet of super space marines, then no one could really stop you from claiming Mars as your own.[/QUOTE]Of course this is why I advocate for extraterrestrial colonies to declare themselves independent and claim the entire body as their sovereign territory. Instead of using the law of the sea as a basis the lunar government could go "yeah no, sorry mining company but that's not how the law works up here" without requiring the complete overhaul of an international treaty. Then it would be a matter of X company dealing with Y [I]local[/I] government with the implicit understanding that if you break Y government's laws then Z earth-bound nation (presumably where X came from) would assist Y in making sure X paid for any crime. [editline]3rd August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=paul simon;50824305]I'm wondering if gold would even be worth the cost of transport from the moon to earth.[/QUOTE]Realistically? No. There's other metals that are far, far more attractive for that and even then it would be a pretty significant undertaking but is entirely within the realm of possibility with current technology. Right now it's not cost-effective though, it would be like building a Rube Goldberg machine to pick an apple on top of a cliff when there's apples scattered all over the ground where we're at now. Asteroid mining needs to be cost-effective enough to where somebody sends up a robot to pick a bunch and then throw the fuckers off the cliff and hope most of them lands intact. That's really the only way we're going to do it cheaply, but even then it's still expensive for the robot to climb up and then do the actual picking. (he's slow too, really slow) Obviously it's more complicated than the analogy because orbital mechanics are less about falling and more about relative velocity, but at some point it comes down to "where should we crash this big crate of ore?" I'm one of those drogue chute, retro rocket and smashing platinum ore in the Nevada desert type of guys, but I suppose dropping a big can of rocks in the ocean isn't a bad deal either.

Pretty sure the US owns the moon because we have a flag up there which means we own it.

There's also the small matter of completely fucking tanking the price if you bring down a bunch of it unless demand is absurdly high or you slowly refine it to keep the price up. That's got to be taken into account too, if you spend 3+ years getting tons and tons of palladium you're taking an enormous financial risk: somebody might find a boatload of the stuff somewhere and it halves the price before you even have a chance to profit. [editline]3rd August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=matt000024;50825152]Pretty sure the US owns the moon because we have a flag up there which means we own it.[/QUOTE]I'm not even mad you fucked up my merge, I laughed.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50825162]There's also the small matter of completely fucking tanking the price if you bring down a bunch of it unless demand is absurdly high or you slowly refine it to keep the price up. That's got to be taken into account too, if you spend 3+ years getting tons and tons of palladium you're taking an enormous financial risk: somebody might find a boatload of the stuff somewhere and it halves the price before you even have a chance to profit. [editline]3rd August 2016[/editline] I'm not even mad you fucked up my merge, I laughed.[/QUOTE] :terrists:

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50822614]We need clearances to goto the bloody moon? Why not just tell a bunch of mining companies about the fact that the moon has the same rare metals as Earth, and that it's open game to mine the shit out of it. Watch as overnight you have a massive gold rush to the moon. In speaking of gold... I hope some of these guys are in the right of mind to bring back a large quantity of concentrates for gold panning back home. If they find a somewhat good pan of gold, silver, or otherwise up there, it'll probably bring the space race back.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that the more gold that is made available, the lower it's value which directly affects our economy. If there ever was a gold rush to the moon, the entire global economy would be fluctuating like mad.

[QUOTE=matt000024;50825152]Pretty sure the US owns the moon because we have a flag up there which means we own it.[/QUOTE] actually radiation will have made it white, meaning it's French now

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;50825193]Keep in mind that the more gold that is made available, the lower it's value which directly affects our economy. If there ever was a gold rush to the moon, the entire global economy would be fluctuating like mad.[/QUOTE]Our economy is not at all that dependent on the price of gold, if gold's fluctuating because of supply like that then it's normal market forces at work. People said this back when other precious metals nose dived in value, we didn't see anything except an explosion in cheaper electronics.

[QUOTE=matt000024;50825152]Pretty sure the US owns the moon because we have a flag up there which means we own it.[/QUOTE] I just came out of a squidbillies marathon, and reading this post in earl's voice made too much sense.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50825200]actually radiation will have made it white, meaning it's French now[/QUOTE] there's no flag on the moon, they took it back when they returned to earth

[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;50825373]there's no flag on the moon, they took it back when they returned to earth[/QUOTE] There is no flag on the moon because they were never there.

If we mined the moon then we would have to build ontop of it otherwise we would fuck with the mass. Certainly not in a year, or 5, but after 100 years of advanced tech mining, the mass will start to change, and the seas will be affected. 1000 years later it might be the new global warming.

[QUOTE=sb27;50822671]Meanwhile back in reality, the enormous cost of getting something off of Earth and into orbit, then transferring to a lunar orbit, landing, prospecting a good mining area, mining, sorting through the rock to find things of value, then getting all of that back to Earth, is a cost that would vastly outweigh any money that could be made from selling the very limited number of commodities that were mined, even with a 'mined on the Moon!' price mark-up. Hint: Getting even 1kg into Earth orbit costs around $20,000. And that's not even a quarter of the journey of a 'mining the Moon' mission. Mining in outer space belongs in the same area of science fiction as 'humanity colonising the stars' - it's not going to happen. The only way it would happen is if we became so dependant on those resources and they became so scarce on Earth, that we had no other choice. Well I suppose it's more realistic than interstellar colonisation, but still.[/QUOTE] I bet if they found oil on the moon america would invade it faster than the aliens from independence day.