Suspected Ex-Nazi's received over 20m from SSA - Polidicks

[quote] the top watchdog at the Social Security Administration found the agency paid $20.2 million in benefits to more than 130 [B]suspected[/B] Nazi war criminals, SS guards, and others who may have participated in the Third Reich's atrocities during World War II. [/quote] [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-nazis-got-20-million-social-security-watchdog-says/]Source[/url] I am dumbfounded. We wanted some for their skills but now that we have no use for them and now that they're old and aging fuck them no social security for them. It's been nearly 70 years since the war ended.

"More than 130 suspected Nazi war criminals, SS guards, and others". I'd like to know on a case-by-case basis what these people are accused of doing before I actually form any judgments about them. Is it one of those situations where they actually killed people, ordered people to be killed... or were they just bookkeepers, clerks, cooks, etc.? In the latter case, I don't care. If they didn't actually kill anybody or commit any such related violent crimes, it really doesn't matter that they were Nazis now does it? It wouldn't matter to me if the same is true but they were Communists who had worked in gulags or had something to do with the Soviet Union's forced labor/penal system or the KGB. This all happened such a long time ago to that it doesn't necessarily need to be forgotten about, but it does need to be forgiven. Or at least I think it needs to be forgiven. Otherwise, it just devolves into a clusterfuck of people getting angry at each other's ancestors about things that happened generations ago, "your country is worse than my country", etc. It doesn't change anything. Don't forget the past, but learn to let go of it is what I'm saying. People do really ridiculous things when they can't learn this lesson. Like how they went after the bookkeeper of Auschwitz.

The article only briefly [I]mentions[/I] that the DoJ used the benefits as an incentive for suspected nazis to leave the country. [B]That[/B] should be the highlight of the article, not the bloody money (which is about $2,500 per capita per annum) or the past of the beneficiaries.

oh shit snip, I read the article line wrong

[QUOTE=Govna;47848039]"More than 130 suspected Nazi war criminals, SS guards, and others". I'd like to know on a case-by-case basis what these people are accused of doing before I actually form any judgments about them. Is it one of those situations where they actually killed people, ordered people to be killed... or were they just bookkeepers, clerks, cooks, etc.? In the latter case, I don't care. If they didn't actually kill anybody or commit any such related violent crimes, it really doesn't matter that they were Nazis now does it? It wouldn't matter to me if the same is true but they were Communists who had worked in gulags or had something to do with the Soviet Union's forced labor/penal system or the KGB. This all happened such a long time ago to that it doesn't necessarily need to be forgotten about, but it does need to be forgiven. Or at least I think it needs to be forgiven. Otherwise, it just devolves into a clusterfuck of people getting angry at each other's ancestors about things that happened generations ago, "your country is worse than my country", etc. It doesn't change anything. Don't forget the past, but learn to let go of it is what I'm saying. People do really ridiculous things when they can't learn this lesson. Like how they went after the bookkeeper of Auschwitz.[/QUOTE] The accusations are against men like [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/shock-lingers-after-alleged-nazi-unit-leader-94-found-in-us/"]this[/URL], who were targeted by "Nazi Hunter" groups in the DoJ because they served in the SS, regardless of their actual position in the SS and their service in the War. For the specific example I gave, the gentlemen was a company commander in the 14th SS Galician Division, a Division of the SS that was made up almost exclusively of Ukrainian volunteers. The AP put out an article on him saying he was a war criminal and a mass murderer, but if you go the the Wiki article for the page, the first line under the "Attrocities" section is literally this [quote]Although the Galizien Division has not been found guilty of any war crimes by any war tribunal or commission, numerous unproven accusations of impropriety have been levelled at the division and at particular members of the division from a variety of sources[/quote] The dood was a front line company commander of a volunteer unit, and the AP is calling him a Nazi war criminal with literally no evidence.

Well, most other Nazis received enough lead from the US army to wage a world war so it's only fair that these guys got something in the end

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47849023] The dood was a front line company commander of a volunteer unit, and the AP is calling him a Nazi war criminal with literally no evidence.[/QUOTE] Lol like US couldn't clear them of any guilt. The thing you're all propagating is that if you commit some heinous shit all you have to do is hide well and long enough to be cleared of it. Would you give the same excuse, "war was over 70 years ago" for Japanese monsters US hid for it's own benefit to Chinese people, especially the ones in Nanjing?

[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;47849465]Lol like US couldn't clear them of any guilt. The thing you're all propagating is that if you commit some heinous shit all you have to do is hide well and long enough to be cleared of it. Would you give the same excuse, "war was over 70 years ago" for Japanese monsters US hid for it's own benefit to Chinese people, especially the ones in Nanjing?[/QUOTE] Except we don't know if they did anything heinous because there's [b]no evidence[/b].

Because that evidence [B]got removed[/B] by the US in exchange for their services.

Time has passed and i suspect many of them have found their own way to repent for their sins? because its not like after entering the US they've taken up their old ways.

[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;47849669]Because that evidence [B]got removed[/B] by the US in exchange for their services.[/QUOTE] Hahaha, what? How did the United States remove evidence of war crimes from Soviet-controlled territory in Poland and the Ukraine? Because that's where all the alleged atrocities by the 14th Waffen-SS were supposedly committed. Were the Russians complicit in helping us cover up their crimes or something lol?

[QUOTE=Govna;47849950]Hahaha, what? How did the United States remove evidence of war crimes from Soviet-controlled territory in Poland and the Ukraine? Because that's where all the alleged atrocities by the 14th Waffen-SS were supposedly committed. Were the Russians complicit in helping us cover up their crimes or something lol?[/QUOTE] We did swap top Nazi prisoners which included scientists, so yes we did cooperate to a degree to cover up these dealings at times. It's not a stretch, it truly isn't.

[QUOTE=Govna;47849950]Hahaha, what? How did the United States remove evidence of war crimes from Soviet-controlled territory in Poland and the Ukraine? Because that's where all the alleged atrocities by the 14th Waffen-SS were supposedly committed. Were the Russians complicit in helping us cover up their crimes or something lol?[/QUOTE] The Soviets faked so much evidence in ww2 that it really makes it difficult to trust them as a reliable source. Unfortunately, this is why a lot of people are questioning the holocaust in Soviet occupied zones.

[QUOTE=Govna;47849950]Hahaha, what? How did the United States remove evidence of war crimes from Soviet-controlled territory in Poland and the Ukraine? Because that's where all the alleged atrocities by the 14th Waffen-SS were supposedly committed. Were the Russians complicit in helping us cover up their crimes or something lol?[/QUOTE] It doesn't need to make sense if it confirms your world view, [I]duh[/I]. Anyone's who's surprised that it's hard to figure out who did what in a war that lasted almost 6 years with anywhere from 50-80 million dead probably isn't thinking that much about the whole situation. Obviously the US absolved some nazis of their crimes because of what they could offer, but so did the Soviet Union, and why they would do it for some random SS-officer isn't really clear (and going to such lengths as removing evidence in Soviet territory).

Lol at the people in this thread trying to act like there's some objective justice to a war or some shit. Everyone in that war was just as bad as each other, you just think because of history books and subjective teachings that the side you were born on is the right one.

[QUOTE=Jim Morales;47851647]Lol at the people in this thread trying to act like there's some objective justice to a war or some shit. Everyone in that war was just as bad as each other, you just think because of history books and subjective teachings that the side you were born on is the right one.[/QUOTE] Everyone? Are you sure about that buddy? Nobody was a saint, but didn't [I]kill 10+ million innocent people[/I] like the Nazis and the Communists.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47851659]Everyone? Are you sure about that buddy? Nobody was a saint, but didn't [I]kill 10+ million innocent people[/I] like the Nazis and the Communists.[/QUOTE] Try reading a book.

[QUOTE=Jim Morales;47851672]Try reading a book.[/QUOTE] Generally at this point of an argument you want to provide sources

[QUOTE=Jim Morales;47851647]Lol at the people in this thread trying to act like there's some objective justice to a war or some shit. Everyone in that war was just as bad as each other, you just think because of history books and subjective teachings that the side you were born on is the right one.[/QUOTE] You know just because history is subjective doesn't mean that you can't make informed value-judgements based upon the evidence. World War two is about as clear cut as you can get when it comes to the 'who is the bad guy' competition.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47851659]Everyone? Are you sure about that buddy? Nobody was a saint, but didn't [I]kill 10+ million innocent people[/I] like the Nazis and the Communists.[/QUOTE] Well it gets a bit more muddy once you start including WMDs or massive firebombings. Or internment and work camps.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47851659]Everyone? Are you sure about that buddy? Nobody was a saint, but didn't [I]kill 10+ million innocent people[/I] like the Nazis and the Communists.[/QUOTE] Not really dood. The US bombing effort was a genocide all on it's own. The US flattened entire cities and dropped incendiary bombs purposefully in civilian populaces. Overall, the US and UK managed to murder about a million civilians between Germany, Japan, France, and Italy. In Dresden, Germany, the US dropped incendiary bombs when it was chock full of refugees fleeing from the advancing Soviets, and the US knew this. There were no military targets in the city but they still burned everyone in it alive. 30,000+ were killed in the bombing, with some post-war estimates being as high as several hundred thousands. There were so many bodies that the Germans couldn't dig mass graves deep enough to bury them all; they had to bring in men with flamethrowers to burn what remained before they started to rot and spread disease. There was also this whole "Nuclear Bombing" thing as well that happened in Japan. Twice, actually. The Chinese sacrificed millions of their own civilians in attempts to stop the advancing Japanese as well. The Germans and Soviets were good at mass murder, but the US was too. WWII was one of those wars where everyone was guilty and nobody was innocent. Not just a lowly infantry on the ground raping somebody or killing a prisoner, but entire governments involved in mass murder. [editline]1st June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Lonestriper;47851758]You know just because history is subjective doesn't mean that you can't make informed value-judgements based upon the evidence. World War two is about as clear cut as you can get when it comes to the 'who is the bad guy' competition.[/QUOTE] Not really dood. This has been said about 2 trillion times, but WWII is not so clear cut and black and white that you can call one side the good guys and one side the bad guys. This is elementary school shit dood. If you honestly believe that any war is that black and white, then you have a very naive view of history and, as Jim Morales said, you should read a book.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;47852002]Well it gets a bit more muddy once you start including WMDs or massive firebombings. Or internment and work camps.[/QUOTE] It was a stupid idea, but nobody died in those camps. As far as bombings go, welcome to total war, where cities are strategic targets, because you can't build an army without a workforce.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47852243]It was a stupid idea, but nobody died in those camps. As far as bombings go, welcome to total war, where cities are strategic targets, because you can't build an army without a workforce.[/QUOTE] Forced labor camps? Welcome to total war bud; you can't build the worlds most well trained fighting force without working a few million people to death. Putting POW's in death camps? Welcome to total war bud; where food runs armies and we don't have enough to feed an army worth of captured POW's. Mass rapes across Germany? Welcome to total war bud; where an entire ethnicity is our target and rape increases moral. Real fuckin' easy to justify almost anything with "It's total war, man". I don't understand you can justify the US' mass murders with "It's Total war" but not anyone else's????

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47852243]It was a stupid idea, but nobody died in those camps. As far as bombings go, welcome to total war, where cities are strategic targets, because you can't build an army without a workforce.[/QUOTE] Imagine justifying mass murder of civilians and illegal internment committed by your own country while condemning it in another case.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47852243]It was a stupid idea, but nobody died in those camps. As far as bombings go, welcome to total war, where cities are strategic targets, because you can't build an army without a workforce.[/QUOTE] I think this is the first time I heard anyone defend bombing civilians. Dude seriously Dresden was full of people with no food, energy or shelter. How is that a strategic target?

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47852206]Not really dood. This has been said about 2 trillion times, but WWII is not so clear cut and black and white that you can call one side the good guys and one side the bad guys. This is elementary school shit dood. If you honestly believe that any war is that black and white, then you have a very naive view of history and, as Jim Morales said, you should read a book.[/QUOTE] I will never be the person to say that there are definite lines between 'good' and 'bad' in history, especially in regards to world war two. On the basis of what is available to us, the evidence points quite heavily towards the genocidal programs of the German being of an entirely more developed, intentional and abhorrent crime than whatever the crimes committed by the Allies. It's elementary school shit to understand that making a judgement about one side doesn't automatically mean an agreement with the other side. It'd also probably help reading my post next time, where I explain that you are, in fact, able to make value-judgements based upon the evidence despite history being subjective. And that while history is subjective, world war two has a pretty obvious side which by today's standard would be considered 'bad', regardless of whatever everyone else was doing at the time.

I don't really think it's a gray area when it comes to some bad guys in WW2, like Japan and Germany. It's pitch black.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;47852206]Not really dood. The US bombing effort was a genocide all on it's own. The US flattened entire cities and dropped incendiary bombs purposefully in civilian populaces. Overall, the US and UK managed to murder about a million civilians between Germany, Japan, France, and Italy. In Dresden, Germany, the US dropped incendiary bombs when it was chock full of refugees fleeing from the advancing Soviets, and the US knew this. There were no military targets in the city but they still burned everyone in it alive. 30,000+ were killed in the bombing, with some post-war estimates being as high as several hundred thousands. There were so many bodies that the Germans couldn't dig mass graves deep enough to bury them all; they had to bring in men with flamethrowers to burn what remained before they started to rot and spread disease. There was also this whole "Nuclear Bombing" thing as well that happened in Japan. Twice, actually. The Chinese sacrificed millions of their own civilians in attempts to stop the advancing Japanese as well. The Germans and Soviets were good at mass murder, but the US was too. WWII was one of those wars where everyone was guilty and nobody was innocent. Not just a lowly infantry on the ground raping somebody or killing a prisoner, but entire governments involved in mass murder. [editline]1st June 2015[/editline] Not really dood. This has been said about 2 trillion times, but WWII is not so clear cut and black and white that you can call one side the good guys and one side the bad guys. This is elementary school shit dood. If you honestly believe that any war is that black and white, then you have a very naive view of history and, as Jim Morales said, you should read a book.[/QUOTE] You're forgetting that it wasn't us that ordered the Dresden bombings, it was in total 722 British bombers and 522 American bombers. It was under Churchill's orders.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;47852375]I don't really think it's a gray area when it comes to some bad guys in WW2, like Japan and Germany. It's pitch black.[/QUOTE] Germany okay, we had this whole genocide thing going which was really uncool But japan? How was japan evil?

[QUOTE=The Saiko;47852426]Germany okay, we had this whole genocide thing going which was really uncool But japan? How was japan evil?[/QUOTE] The fact that you have to ask that question is mind boggling.