Taliban Strikes back against Coalition Troops by Using "Well-trained Marksmen" - Polidicks

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/world/asia/18marja.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw[/URL] Page 1 (page 2 in the article as linked above): [quote]MARJA, Afghanistan — In five days of fighting, the [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/t/taliban/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][COLOR=#004276]Taliban[/COLOR][/URL] have shown a side not often seen in nearly a decade of American military action in [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/afghanistan/index.html?inline=nyt-geo"][COLOR=#004276]Afghanistan[/COLOR][/URL]: the use of snipers, both working alone and integrated into guerrilla-style ambushes. [URL="http://www.facepunch.com/#secondParagraph"][COLOR=#004276]Skip to next paragraph[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/02/18/world/asia/20100218marjaB_index.html"][SIZE=2][COLOR=#004276]Taliban Snipers Bedevil Troops in Marja[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL] Five [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/m/us_marine_corps/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][COLOR=#004276]Marines[/COLOR][/URL] and two Afghan soldiers have been struck here in recent days by bullets fired at long range. That includes one Marine fatally shot and two others wounded in the opening hour of a four-hour clash on Wednesday, when a platoon with Company K of the [URL="http://www.iimefpublic.usmc.mil/public/iimefpublic.nsf/unitSites/3bn6mar"][COLOR=#004276]Third Battalion, Sixth Marines[/COLOR][/URL], was ambushed while moving on foot across a barren expanse of flat ground between the clusters of low-slung mud buildings. Almost every American and Afghan infantryman present has had frightening close calls. Some of the shooting has apparently been from Kalashnikov machine guns, the Marines say, mixed with sniper fire. The near misses have included lone bullets striking doorjambs beside their faces as Marines peeked around corners, single rounds cracking by just overhead as Marines looked over mud walls, and bullets slamming into the dirt beside them as they ran across the many unavoidable open spaces in the area they have been assigned to clear. On Wednesday, firing came from primitive compounds, irrigation canals and agricultural fields as the bloody struggle between the Marines and the Taliban for control of the northern portion of this Taliban enclave continued for a fifth day. In return, Company K used mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike in a long afternoon of fighting, which ended, as has been the pattern for nearly a week, with the waning evening light. The fight to push the Taliban from this small area of Marja, a rural belt of dense poppy cultivation with few roads and almost no services, has relented only briefly since Company K landed by helicopters in the blackness early on Saturday morning. It has been a grinding series of skirmishes triggered by the company’s advances to seize sections of villages, a bridge and a bazaar where it has established an outpost and patrol bases. Over all, most Taliban small-arms fire has been haphazard and ineffective, an unimpressive display of ill discipline or poor skill. But this more familiar brand of Taliban shooting has been punctuated by the work of what would seem to be several well-trained marksmen. On Monday, a sniper struck an Afghan soldier in the neck at a range of roughly 500 to 700 yards. The Afghan was walking across an open area when the single shot hit him. He died. The experience of First Platoon on Wednesday was the latest chilling example. The platoon, laden with its backpacks, was moving west toward the company’s main outpost after several days of operating in the eastern portion of the company’s area. Marines here often stay within the small clusters of buildings as they walk, seeking the relative protection of mud walls. But it is impossible to move far without venturing into the open to cross to new villages. As First Platoon moved into the last wide expanse before reaching the command post, the Taliban began a complex ambush. First bullets came from a Kalashnikov firing from the south, said First Lt. Jarrod D. Neff, the platoon commander. The attack had a logic: to the south, a deep irrigation canal separates the insurgents from anyone walking on the north side, where the company’s forces are concentrated. Vegetation is also thicker there, providing ample concealment. There have been several ambushes in this same spot since the long-planned Afghan and American operation to evict the Taliban and establish a government presence in Marja began. Each time, the Marines and their Afghan counterparts have run through the open by turns, some of them sprinting while others provided suppressive fire. The routine had been a long and risky maneuver by dashing and dropping, without a hint of cover, as bursts of machine-gun bullets and single sniper shots zipped past or thumped in the soil, kicking up a fine white powder that coats the land. At the end of each ambush, each man was slicked in sweat and winded. Ears rang from the near deafening sound of the Marines and Afghan soldiers returning fire. As First Platoon made the crossing under machine-gun fire, at least one sniper was also waiting, according to the Marines who crossed. After the Taliban gunmen occupied the platoon’s attention to the south, a sniper opened fire from the north, Marines in the ambush said.[/quote]

Of course, they have been fighting for how many years now? Something tells me they've got quite the marksmen now.

It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters and a machinegun [editline]f[/editline] Honestly I was going to snip this after realizing it was sort of dumb but marines worth millions of dollars per person using equipment that also costs millions of dollars not being able to best a bunch of raggedy guerilla snipers who probably aren't even carrying a thousand bucks worth of equipment is just ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters[/QUOTE] That also means their plan is working, make the US spend a couple million for every marksman.

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters. It's like the Revolutionary War all over again.[/QUOTE] Um no, that was the other way around.

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters[/QUOTE] They used that in WWII as well, snipers are hard to get out of a spot, especially in terrain that is foreign to your troops and not easily accessible to flank. By the end of WWII we where calling in mortar and air strikes to take out snipers, this was the birth of modern warfare we see today.

[QUOTE=facepuke;20279475]That also means their plan is working, make the US spend a couple million for every marksman.[/QUOTE] Not only that, but this seemed like a well-cooridinated plan: draw the troops back into your stronghold via retreats, then surround them. Not likely, but it's possible.

I hope we kill every last one of them

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Naplam_explodes_following_ROK_airdrop.jpg[/img] [b]When in doubt, burn 'em out.[/b]

Can't we just nuke them, it's not like anything good ever came out of that country anyway.

[QUOTE=Stunted;20279571]Can't we just nuke them, it's not like anything good ever came out of that country anyway.[/QUOTE] You could do, score -100 negativity points against every country in the world. Look at it like Mass Effect - act like a dick and you will pay.

I hope none of them gets a killstreak. [editline]08:18PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;20279598]You could do, score -100 negativity points against every country in the world. Look at it like Mass Effect - act like a dick and you will pay.[/QUOTE] Um, no act like a dick and be awesome.

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters and a machinegun[/QUOTE] How about we send you in to force him out? Mortars and artillery wouldn't sound so "pathetic" then, would it?

[QUOTE=Stunted;20279571]Can't we just nuke them, it's not like anything good ever came out of that country anyway.[/QUOTE] If America dropped a nuke on Afghanistan, about every nation in the world, including majors like China, UK, Russia, etc., would immediately become unfriendly or even hostile to the US. Think of it, thousands upon thousands of civilian casualties in a city just to kill 500 Taliban who may be in it? [editline]09:23PM[/editline] [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;20279563][IMG]http://www.scarpaz.com/Napalm/a10napalm.jpg[/IMG] When in doubt, burn 'em out.[/QUOTE] Good ol' 'Nam strategy right thar.

[QUOTE=Stunted;20279571]Can't we just nuke them, it's not like anything good ever came out of that country anyway.[/QUOTE] We aren't TRYING to kill the civilians goddamnit.

Why can't there be world peace :(

[QUOTE=SkynrdFan1;20279795]Why can't there be world peace :([/QUOTE] Because we have people such as these who are Muslim extremists that kill "infidels."

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters and a machinegun[/QUOTE] It's a consequence of American armed forces relying on old French style firepower-oriented attrition warfare to get the job done.

few words get Napalm spread it and they dead

Didn't have those things on Humvees that detect where the shots came from? Why is no one thinking about using those to flush out marksmen?

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters and a machinegun[/QUOTE] Well if it is so pathetic how about you run in to the line of fire. This isn't call of duty, you can't just bum rush everything. I would rather spend money on artillery and air support then lose a bunch of our troops. Plus once a sniper gets dug in and has a good vantage point it isn't a easy situation. Anyone with a brain and some common sense knows this. What makes me even more sad is the fact everyone is like "lol lets just nuke em, lets just bomb them, lets just toss some napalm on em." What the fuck is wrong with you people, the only point of this assault is the free the village and de-root the taliban, not kill countless civilians who have no ties to these regimes.

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters and a machinegun[/QUOTE] No, it's pathetic that these extremists are such cowards they rely on civilian human shields and suicide bombings.

This is a war you can't win. Look at Vietnam, same shits gonna happen. You can't target those who hide among civilians, and fight guerilla style.

[QUOTE=MelonGuy;20280289]This is a war you can't win. Look at Vietnam, same shits gonna happen. You can't target those who hide among civilians, and fight guerilla style.[/QUOTE] Exactly. The Taliban are simply too adept at the style of guerilla warfare to ever be truely defeated in open combat. Though obviously their typical soldier isn't that good, snipers like these prove the Taliban are simply more adept at Vietnam-style warfare.

[QUOTE=MelonGuy;20280289]This is a war you can't win. Look at Vietnam, same shits gonna happen. You can't target those who hide among civilians, and fight guerilla style.[/QUOTE] We almost did win, physically, the Vietnam war. The Tet Offensive, while demoralizing, was quickly pushed back and the American military did extremely heavy casualties on the Viet Cong in return. Shame that the American public just ignored what President Johnson was saying, though.

We didn't lose the Vietnam War... It was a tie.

[QUOTE=Umi-hebi;20279448]It's pathetic that we have to use mortars, artillery, helicopter attack gunships and an airstrike to take out a few taliban sharpshooters and a machinegun[/QUOTE] There is no kill like Overkill. :v:

[QUOTE=Flitchaye;20280394]We almost did win, physically, the Vietnam war. The Tet Offensive, while demoralizing, was quickly pushed back and the American military did extremely heavy casualties on the Viet Cong in return. Shame that the American public just ignored what President Johnson was saying, though.[/QUOTE] Just a note, in the Tet Offensive, Vietnamese casualties and American casualties weren't too different, only different by somewhere between 10,000 - 100,000. Considering it was around 300,000 Vietnamese vs. over a million American and SV troops, the results weren't too bad. [editline]10:03PM[/editline] [QUOTE=SkynrdFan1;20280448]We didn't lose the Vietnam War... It was a tie.[/QUOTE] American troops pulled out, SV surrendered. It was a loss.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;20279702]If America dropped a nuke on Afghanistan, about every nation in the world, including majors like China, UK, Russia, etc., would immediately become unfriendly or even hostile to the US. Think of it, thousands upon thousands of civilian casualties in a city just to kill 500 Taliban who may be in it? [/QUOTE] we killed millions in hiroshima and nagasaki

Don't worry, UAVs will find 'em. Nothing shows up quite so obviously on thermal imaging better than gunfire.