[QUOTE]Washington (CNN)Donald Trump doesn't believe there is enough evidence to blame pro-Russian separatists for last year's downing of a commercial airliner over Ukraine -- despite the fact that the U.S. intelligence community believes "with confidence" that pro-Russian separatists shot it down.
"That's a horrible thing that happened," he said. "It's disgusting and disgraceful but Putin and Russia say they didn't do it, the other side said they did, no one really knows who did it, probably Putin knows who did it. Possibly it was Russia but they are totally denying it."
Trump was responding to a question from CNN noting that the U.S. government assesses that the several points of available evidence all point to Russia.
The question from CNN came after Trump was asked on MSNBC Wednesday about a new report from Dutch investigators that Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down by a Russian-made rocket and warhead -- and asked what he would do as president to hold Russia accountable.
U.S. intelligence determined with confidence soon after the attack that a Russian-supplied missile brought the jet down from territory controlled by pro-Russian separatists. U.S. intelligence continues to stand by that assessment.
"They say it wasn't them," Trump said. "It may have been their weapon, but they didn't use it, they didn't fire it, they even said the other side fired it to blame them. I mean to be honest with you, you'll probably never know for sure."[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/14/politics/donald-trump-mh17-plane-russians/index.html[/url]
Trump is pro-facist.
Last I heard the Pentagon said that they had at least a Russian operator overseeing the missile systems
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
We know for sure who shot it, Ukraine did not have that missile system in the area at all
"1 thinks 2 did it but 2 said no but nobody knows so maybe it was 2 or 1 but they both said no so yea"
thanks trump, you saying "i dont know/no one knows" would've sufficed if you wanted to save face
[quote]
"They say it wasn't them," Trump said. "It may have been their weapon, but they didn't use it, they didn't fire it, they even said the other side fired it to blame them. I mean to be honest with you, you'll probably never know for sure."[/quote]
I too lose track of multi million dollar weapon systems from time to time, along with complete instructions for the guidance system.
[QUOTE]Donald Trump doesn't believe there is enough evidence to blame pro-Russian separatists for last year's downing of a commercial airliner over Ukraine[/QUOTE]
Misleading title, pro-Russian separatists aren't the same thing as Russia.
Not really familiar with american politics, but judging by the latest news mentioning that guy he must be a joke as a politician.
[QUOTE=antianan;48914302]Not really familiar with american politics, but judging by the latest news mentioning that guy he must be a joke as a politician.[/QUOTE]
he's a billionaire using conservative rhetoric to gain votes for his candidacy for the Republicans in the 2016 elections. And it's working, as he leads in front of all of the other republican candidates that are running against him to try and get the Republican candidacy. God help us all if this nut gets into power.
Lets get one fact straight, DNR forces did use a SA-11 Buk to shoot down MH17, the only reason they deny it is because they don't want to be designated an International Terrorist Group.
But I want to know why people hold Russia 100% responsible for this? When nobody can even prove the missile system was theirs, since we're talking about a soviet weapons system that was in service 12 years before Ukraine was even independent.
Secondly this report also stated Ukraine was negligent for failing to close the airspace despite the Ukrainian Military being fully aware that a battery was up and operational since they were getting absolutely wrecked by it in the days leading up to MH17.
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;48914194]I too lose track of multi million dollar weapon systems from time to time, along with complete instructions for the guidance system.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, in the Ukraine they even lose track of entire airborne divisions.
[url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-16/ukrainian-soldiers-surrender-apcs-to-pro-russian-separatists/5396014[/url]
Well to be honest there couldn't be anyone except Russia.
After doing some research it appears that operating a BUK requires something along 6 vehicles full of trained personell. I think rebels couldn't do it even if they wanted.
You could say that russians trained some rebels to operate it, but I don't think you can train around 30 people to be competent radiolocation specialists in a year.
Russian side has a counter argument: the company that produces BUK missiles (Алмаз антей) stated that the missile used wasn't in production for a long time already.
Russkies now very carefully blame Ukrainians for using a BUK, but that's straw grasping already.
I think it was Russkies and it was a mistake, not something intended.
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
Plus what Broseph said, it's not only Russkies to blame.
[QUOTE=antianan;48914302]Not really familiar with american politics, but judging by the latest news mentioning that guy he must be a joke as a politician.[/QUOTE]
You know how Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London? Yeah well, Donald Trump is basically the same thing except worse and running for president. Everything is bigger in Texas applies to American politics as well.
trump is a dipshit
[QUOTE=Kljunas;48914234]Misleading title, pro-Russian separatists aren't the same thing as Russia.[/QUOTE]
is what trump seems be claiming
[QUOTE=Broseph_;48914416]Lets get one fact straight, DNR forces did use a SA-11 Buk to shoot down MH17, the only reason they deny it is because they don't want to be designated an International Terrorist Group.
But I want to know why people hold Russia 100% responsible for this? When nobody can even prove the missile system was theirs, since we're talking about a soviet weapons system that was in service 12 years before Ukraine was even independent.
Secondly this report also stated Ukraine was negligent for failing to close the airspace despite the Ukrainian Military being fully aware that a battery was up and operational since they were getting absolutely wrecked by it in the days leading up to MH17.
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
Yeah, in the Ukraine they even lose track of entire airborne divisions.
[url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-16/ukrainian-soldiers-surrender-apcs-to-pro-russian-separatists/5396014[/url][/QUOTE]
It is kind of stupid to call them terrorists. Terrorist implies you're trying to create terror to force someone to do something. I don't think the pro-Russian separatists shot down MH-17 with the intent to create terror. It was almost certainly an accident. They're just trying to fight a war, not scare people into doing what they want.
Surprising that a lot of republicans support Trump seeing how red he is turning out to be
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;48914761]is what trump seems be claiming[/QUOTE]
I think the separatists shot down a civilian plane because they were incompetent and trigger-happy, not because they got orders from Russia to do so.
Whenever I see "Trump" in the title I always expect the worst.
The fact that people are actually supporting this guy unironically is baffling.
[QUOTE=Jocken300;48915680]Whenever I see "Trump" in the title I always expect the worst.
The fact that people are actually supporting this guy unironically is baffling.[/QUOTE]
You know he is saying it wasn't a direct order given buy Russia to shoot down a civilian plane right? He's more or less blaming separatists gurilla's for it, and most likely not a order given by the Russian government/army
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;48914574]Well to be honest there couldn't be anyone except Russia.
After doing some research it appears that operating a BUK requires something along 6 vehicles full of trained personell. I think rebels couldn't do it even if they wanted.
You could say that russians trained some rebels to operate it, but I don't think you can train around 30 people to be competent radiolocation specialists in a year.
Russian side has a counter argument: the company that produces BUK missiles (Алмаз антей) stated that the missile used wasn't in production for a long time already.
Russkies now very carefully blame Ukrainians for using a BUK, but that's straw grasping already.
I think it was Russkies and it was a mistake, not something intended.
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
Plus what Broseph said, it's not only Russkies to blame.[/QUOTE]
You don't need all vehicles and components of the system in order to point and shoot. You only need a TELAR, a launcher vehicle that has its own radar and is capable of operating autonomously if needed. And the conviction is that if the operators [i]were[/i] trained properly then an airliner would never have been shot down. It was the lack of training and competence on the part of the rebels to blame.
Perhaps Russia provided the BUK, perhaps the rebels captured it from Ukraine. But to claim Russia are directly responsible for either ordering the shoot down or actually pulling the trigger themselves? A bit ridiculous for me. Why would they? A false flag to pin the blame on Ukraine? I mean, they tried to blame Ukraine right after the shoot down but given the best they could come up with was a Ukrainian Su-25 it seemed more rushed desperation to get a theory out there than a premeditated attempt to incriminate Ukraine. Russia had very little to gain, and very little chance of gaining it, from MH17 getting shot down but it stood to lose far more from increased scrutiny in its actions.
It was almost certainly the separatists. They came into possession of a high-performance SAM launcher and either didn't have the competence or didn't care enough to use it with any sort of responsibility. They locked onto a target, had no understanding of target discrimination and obviously made no effort to check if it was a civilian aircraft or a military one before they fired. I don't for a minute believe they deliberately targeted an airliner, but they were criminally negligent nonetheless. As are Russia if they did indeed supply the unit.
[QUOTE=Jocken300;48915680]Whenever I see "Trump" in the title I always expect the worst.
The fact that people are actually supporting this guy unironically is baffling.[/QUOTE]
He makes SwedenDemocrats look like Socialdemocrats, christ Trump is the definition of 'Murica, invading and stealing other countries oil to fight terrorism.
[QUOTE=freaka;48916257]He makes SwedenDemocrats look like Socialdemocrats, christ Trump is the definition of 'Murica, invading and stealing other countries oil to fight terrorism.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't every debate he stand by the fact that we should not be going into other countries? Also most of america does not get their oil from the middle east
[QUOTE=freaka;48916257]invading and stealing other countries oil to fight terrorism.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's how geopolitics and military funding work...
If we really wanted more oil we would invade Canada and ourselves because that's were the vast majority of our oil comes from
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
