Man bills cold caller £10 for every minute of his time they used. They refused to pay, so he took th
36 replies, posted
[h2]Victory For Man Who Took Cold Caller To Court[/h2]
[tab]Mr Herman filed in the small claims court when his invoice was not paid[/tab][img]http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2012/10/27/200401/default/v1/doc-20120904-154436-331-1-252x337.jpg[/img]
[quote]A businessman plagued by nuisance phone calls offering compensation for Payment Protection Insurance has secured £220 in an out-of-court settlement.
Richard Herman, 53, was so fed up with the unwanted calls [B]arriving from India[/B], he decided to take matters into his own hands.
He warned the company that, in future, [B]he would invoice them £10 for every minute of his time they used.[/B]
When the calls continued [B]he began recording them before finally invoicing the company £195 for their use of his [I]"time, telephone and electricity".[/I][/B]
Upon receipt of the invoice the marketing firm acting on behalf of UK-based PPI Claimline Ltd, [B]denied making the calls[/B]. [B]When Mr Herman revealed he had recorded evidence, [U]they still refused to pay.[/U]
[/B]
But when Mr Herman filed a claim in the small claims court for the unpaid invoice - plus £25 in costs - the company offered to settle the debt out of court and transferred £220 into his bank account.
Mr Herman said: [B]"I kept being called, as we all do, and I thought the only way for them to stop would be for me to speak to them and say, 'For goodness sake, take me off your list!'[/B]
"Then it occurred to me to tell them that if they call again I'll charge for my time. When they continued calling [B]I sent them an invoice for 19.5 minutes."[/B]
To encourage others to do the same [I]Mr Herman has set up a website with examples of covering letters and invoices to send to nuisance callers.
[/I]
Even though the validity of Mr Herman's original invoice was not tested in court, he believes anyone who warns cold-calling companies they will be charged if they call, have a right to invoice them.
[B]"I did business studies at 17 and studied 'offer-and-acceptance' so I knew a verbal contract is just as valid as a written one but harder to prove.[/B]
[B]"The recorded calls proved I did tell them I would charge for my time if they called again".[/B]
Mr Herman, who works in the telephone industry [B]selling call-recording equipment[/B], said his action was a last resort after asking the Information Commissioner and the Telephone Preference Service for help.
In a statment, PPI Claimline said: "We would like to stress that all our supplier relationships are subject to strict contractual provisions requiring full compliance with all relevant regulations, including those which relate to data protection and the telephone preference service.
"We would like to draw a clear line between the two calls to Mr Herman made on behalf of PPI Claimline and any other calls he received, which were nothing to do with PPI Claimline or its suppliers."[/quote]
[url=news.sky.com/story/1003497/victory-for-man-who-took-cold-caller-to-court]Video in source - Sky news[/url]
Good for him !
That reminds me of the lady who got tired of having the Jehovah witnesses coming to her door even after she told them to stop so she went on a holy day to their church and started handing out pamphlets from her church.
The police came and took her out of there but since then no Jehovah witness has ever bothered her again.
it doesn't seem right that you can just announce that you're going to bill someone for something. that's kind of ridiculous.
Like if I were to say I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38213753]it doesn't seem right that you can just announce that you're going to bill someone for something. that's kind of ridiculous.
Like if I were to say I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.[/QUOTE]
Difference being that you aren't put out of your way when someone quotes it.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38213753]it doesn't seem right that you can just announce that you're going to bill someone for something. that's kind of ridiculous.
Like if I were to say I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.[/QUOTE]
They'd have to agree to it for it to be valid. The telemarketing company agreed to it.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38213753]it doesn't seem right that you can just announce that you're going to bill someone for something. that's kind of ridiculous.
Like if I were to say I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.[/QUOTE]
You are legally allowed to state that using your telephone line constitutes a business call, and that future calls will be charged. There is precedent for this, since many companies use their lines for business, and holding up all their lines costs them considerable resources.
If you own the forum, you can put whatever the fuck you want in the ToS. I don't think you own facepunch, so you have no legal standing, even in terms of copyright.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38213753]I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.[/QUOTE]
I'll see you in court
[quote]A [B]businessman[/B] plagued by nuisance phone calls offering compensation for Payment Protection Insurance has secured £220 in an out-of-court settlement.[/quote]
that explains everything
Now where do I buy some of this equipment?
Welcome to the telephone.
[QUOTE=draugur;38214249]Now where do I buy some of this equipment?[/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=YourFriendJoe;38212318]That reminds me of the lady who got tired of having the Jehovah witnesses coming to her door even after she told them to stop so she went on a holy day to their church and started handing out pamphlets from her church.
The police came and took her out of there but since then no Jehovah witness has ever bothered her again.[/QUOTE]
I once had a JW come to my door with her daughter.
I told the kid right then that her mom would have no problems letting her die if she needed a blood transfusion. The look on her mom's face was... [i]priceless...[/i] :v:
[QUOTE=draugur;38214249]Now where do I buy some of this equipment?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://dx.com/p/rj11-telephone-line-pass-thru-to-3-5mm-mini-jack-conversation-recording-line-out-adapter-18869?item=35]Here's a really cheap alternative[/url] for plugging into some recording device (laptop/mp3)
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38213753]it doesn't seem right that you can just announce that you're going to bill someone for something. that's kind of ridiculous.
Like if I were to say I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference. In a sense you choose out of your own free time to participate in this discussion. He on the other hand did not have choose to do so and instead threw them a standard offerta for the use of his time.
idk just hang up the phone?
why was he wasting 20 minutes of his time on the phone across two phone calls if he wasn't trying to get money out of them?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38216229]idk just hang up the phone?
why was he wasting 20 minutes of his time on the phone across two phone calls if he wasn't trying to get money out of them?[/QUOTE]
He was getting called repeatedly. You can't make 19 minutes worth of repeated calls from somebody who never calls you.
The court would have rejected it if it was 2-3 calls, for one. It was probably dozens upon dozens. Even at home, I was personallu called once every couple of days at one point, despite repeatedly telling them no/putting the phone down on them.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;38216511]He was getting called repeatedly. You can't make 19 minutes worth of repeated calls from somebody who never calls you.
The court would have rejected it if it was 2-3 calls, for one. It was probably dozens upon dozens. Even at home, I was personallu called once every couple of days at one point, despite repeatedly telling them no/putting the phone down on them.[/QUOTE]
[quote]"We would like to draw a clear line between the two calls to Mr Herman made on behalf of PPI Claimline and any other calls he received, which were nothing to do with PPI Claimline or its suppliers."[/quote]
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38216229]idk just hang up the phone?
why was he wasting 20 minutes of his time on the phone across two phone calls if he wasn't trying to get money out of them?[/QUOTE]
Guy spent 20 minutes on the phone and probably 2 hours establishing his case. 220 pounds for that pittance of time? Totally worth it.
That's a brilliant idea. I registered with a group meant to help locate health insurance companies for people with prexisting conditions about a year and a half ago (and they found me one, a year and a half ago), but I still get three to four calls a week from those bastards asking me if I'm interested in perhaps another plan, or maybe even three.
I simply can't figure out how to make them stop calling me. I've tried threatening to go to the better business beaureau, I've tried yelling, I've tried begging, I've tried not answering, and I've tried every reasonable and unreasonable tactic in between--nothing works!
I never thought of simply billing them.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;38217420]That's a brilliant idea. I registered with a group meant to help locate health insurance companies for people with prexisting conditions about a year and a half ago (and they found me one, a year and a half ago), but I still get three to four calls a week from those bastards asking me if I'm interested in perhaps another plan, or maybe even three.
I simply can't figure out how to make them stop calling me. I've tried threatening to go to the better business beaureau, I've tried yelling, I've tried begging, I've tried not answering, and I've tried every reasonable and unreasonable tactic in between--nothing works!
I never thought of simply billing them.[/QUOTE]
Tried [url]https://www.donotcall.gov/?[/url]
Phones should have a blacklist.
As in "ignore all communication from these numbers".
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;38217373]Guy spent 20 minutes on the phone and probably 2 hours establishing his case. 220 pounds for that pittance of time? Totally worth it.[/QUOTE]
yeah i get why people think its cool to bill telemarketers, but think of it this way.
if this becomes a precedent (it didn't go to court so it's not) and you call say like Samsung's support phone number and somewhere in the fine print it says they can send you a bill for $10/minute for using their phone support. so you call them because your cell phone breaks and they mail you a bill for $200.
not so great then is it?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38217666]yeah i get why people think its cool to bill telemarketers, but think of it this way.
if this becomes a precedent (it didn't go to court so it's not) and you call say like Samsung's support phone number and somewhere in the fine print it says they can send you a bill for $10/minute for using their phone support. so you call them because your cell phone breaks and they mail you a bill for $200.
not so great then is it?[/QUOTE]
When it comes to phones, they have to state that during the call and you have to agree. A fine print on a piece of paper does not dictate the rules over the phone.
[QUOTE=Nikita;38217505]Phones should have a blacklist.
As in "ignore all communication from these numbers".[/QUOTE]
Yes, there should be a filter by caller ID, and if no id or specific id the call is blocked. Don't some cell phones have this?
If you're in the US I recommend registering with the Federal Do Not Call registry and your state's as well. You can put your home and cell number on it.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38217666]yeah i get why people think its cool to bill telemarketers, but think of it this way.
if this becomes a precedent (it didn't go to court so it's not) and you call say like Samsung's support phone number and somewhere in the fine print it says they can send you a bill for $10/minute for using their phone support. so you call them because your cell phone breaks and they mail you a bill for $200.
not so great then is it?[/QUOTE]
Premium rate lines are legally obliged to inform you straight off the bat that they are going to charge you (and the exact price they will charge) and you accept by not hanging up after they've said that. They can only charge after the warning.
Certain phone models have this inbuilt here. Home phones that is. With Android you could always download a blocking app.
There's always solutions.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38217666]yeah i get why people think its cool to bill telemarketers, but think of it this way.
if this becomes a precedent (it didn't go to court so it's not) and you call say like Samsung's support phone number and somewhere in the fine print it says they can send you a bill for $10/minute for using their phone support. so you call them because your cell phone breaks and they mail you a bill for $200.
not so great then is it?[/QUOTE]
You can't bill for a first call unless you jump some huge hoops, that's what paid numbers are for. however if you make them aware every call after that is no problem to bill for.
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;38215015]I once had a JW come to my door with her daughter.
I told the kid right then that her mom would have no problems letting her die if she needed a blood transfusion. The look on her mom's face was... [i]priceless...[/i] :v:[/QUOTE]
I find answering the door naked with a raging erection works pretty well, too.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38213753]Like if I were to say I'm going to bill everyone who quotes this post $20.[/QUOTE]
There's so many differences between your post and the OP's news story. Most obvious one is that the company agreed to his terms, and that there is a commercial relationship between them, unlike you and the rest of Facepunch.
I have no idea how these people get your number sometimes...
When I got my new phone line in my flat with a new number, the very first call I got shortly after being connected was a cold caller, even though I selected ex-directory when I was ordering it.
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