Dutch seek fugitive Nazi war criminal from Germany
57 replies, posted
[QUOTE](CNN) -- Dutch prosecutors asked Germany on Thursday to hand over a fugitive Nazi war criminal who escaped from prison nearly 60 years ago, they said.
Klaas Carel Faber, now 88, was convicted in 1947 of killing Jews at the Westerbork transit camp during the Holocaust and sentenced to death.
But the sentence was commuted to life in prison on appeal, and in 1952 he escaped prison and fled to Germany, Dutch prosecutors said.
Faber is on the most-wanted list of the Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal Center.
Born in Haarlem, the Netherlands, Faber later became a German citizen and fled to Breda, Germany, after his escape.
The Dutch have repeatedly asked for him to be extradited, prosecutor Reinoud Den Haan told CNN.
"This is not the first time we have tried to get him sent back," he said.
"In 1952 and 1957 we asked Germany to hand him over but they refused, arguing that Mr. Faber was a German citizen. Also in 2004 we requested that he serve in a German jail, but we were also denied that," Den Haan said.
German law has in the past barred the extradition of German citizens in some cases, the Foreign Ministry said, but there have been changes to European law recently.
The Dutch are now requesting him under a European arrest warrant, a procedure they have never used before in the case, Den Haan said.
"All efforts to have (Faber) prosecuted in Germany have hereto been unsuccessful, although the German authorities have indicated a willingness to reexamine the case," the Simon Wiesenthal Center said in its 2010 report on Nazi war suspects still at large.
It is not too late to bring Nazi war criminals to justice, said the author of the report, Efraim Zuroff.
"Since January 2001, at least 77 convictions against Nazi war criminals have been obtained, at least 51 new indictments have been filed, and hundreds of new investigations have been initiated," he said.
"At least several such criminals will be brought to trial during the coming years," he said.
He said it was usually "lack of political will," not the age of the suspects, that is "the biggest obstacle to prosecution."
Germany gets the highest possible grade from the center for the investigation and prosecution of Nazi war criminals, along with the United States.[/QUOTE]
Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/11/25/netherlands.germany.nazi/index.html[/url]
As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?
[QUOTE=Makuuta;26305546]As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?[/QUOTE]
Because its about image. Governments vowed to track down every Nazi offender and if they just give up it'll fuck their public image
[QUOTE=Makuuta;26305546]As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?[/QUOTE]
Being under orders isn't an excuse.
[QUOTE=Makuuta;26305546]As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?[/QUOTE]
im sure everyone would regret it at this point
He's 88 years old. I mean I know he did terrible things, but he's at the end of his life. Going after him now kinda seems like a redundant thing to do since he could drop dead any day now.
[QUOTE=Makuuta;26305546]As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?[/QUOTE]
Are there any evidence he did kill them UNDER ORDERS? Plently of Nazi's murdered Jews with or without orders. This is a different situation than a former Polish Guard that was charged for merely being associated with a concentration camp. This situation says he did kill Jews.
[QUOTE=JDER14;26305577]He's 88 years old. I mean I know he did terrible things, but he's at the end of his life. Going after him now kinda seems like a redundant thing to do since he could drop dead any day now.[/QUOTE]
Murder has no expiration date on prosecution.
Just let the poor bastard die on his own, he doesn't need any help
[QUOTE=Makuuta;26305546]As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?[/QUOTE]
He had a choice. If your principal ordered you to beat up a teacher he didn't like would you? Or would you do something else that would be right?
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;26305651]He had a choice. If your principal ordered you to beat up a teacher he didn't like would you? Or would you do something else that would be right?[/QUOTE]
Noting is black and white though, especially during WW2 and under Nazi command.
Your scenario would be more closer if you refused, your principal would classify you as a teacher sympathizer and kill you for treason, possibly your family as well.
[QUOTE=Makuuta;26305546]As much as I hate Nazi scum, why is it worth the effort to chase down a guy that killed people UNDER ORDERS that he probably regrets now anyway?[/QUOTE]
Even if he was under orders, it doesn't fucking matter, murder is still murder, whether he had a choice or not.
Honestly, the thing I wanna know is if he killed because he was soley ordered and felt guilty, or he killed because he saw Jews as sub-humans.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;26305704]
Your scenario would be more closer if you refused, your principal would classify you as a teacher sympathizer and kill you for treason, possibly your family as well.[/QUOTE]
This.
God I hate WW2. So much hate and suffering, and so many of my people dead. [img]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/258/2/d/Flag_Poland_by_Galloping_Horse.gif[/img]
Jesus Christ, Let him go, He was under orders. Dutch bastards
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;26305651]He had a choice. If your principal ordered you to beat up a teacher he didn't like would you? Or would you do something else that would be right?[/QUOTE]
If you had a gun to your head I'm pretty damn sure you would.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;26305651]He had a choice. If your principal ordered you to beat up a teacher he didn't like would you? Or would you do something else that would be right?[/QUOTE]
If my principal had a gun to my head while he did it...I'd fuck my teacher up.
What I'd like to know is why none of the Japanese war criminals are being hunted down.
There were [I]alot.
[/I]I understand that the conditions that Japan surrendered under garanteed that their war criminals wouldn't be internationally prosecuted, but it's ridiculous that such a double standard is allowed to exist so long after WW2. If war criminals are being hunted because they're murderers and deserve to be punished, then maybe the treaty should be overlooked.
Going after an 88 year old guy who was just following orders is just wrong...
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;26305705]Even if he was under orders, it doesn't fucking matter, murder is still murder, whether he had a choice or not.[/QUOTE]
You don't exactly disobey direct orders from your superiors, but then again. What would you know anything about that given how you haven't gone to army yet.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;26305705]Even if he was under orders, it doesn't fucking matter, murder is still murder, whether he had a choice or not.[/QUOTE]
Uh right yeah he would have died if he didn't adhere to those orders
The Dutch are still vengeful towards any Nazis they see. I can understand that.
[QUOTE=Symmetry;26306392]What I'd like to know is why none of the Japanese war criminals are being hunted down.
There were [I]alot.
[/I]I understand that the conditions that Japan surrendered under garanteed that their war criminals wouldn't be internationally prosecuted, but it's ridiculous that such a double standard is allowed to exist so long after WW2. If war criminals are being hunted because they're murderers and deserve to be punished, then maybe the treaty should be overlooked.[/QUOTE]
Yah...... I've watch countless documentaries of old Japanese ww2-vets who have admitted to rape and murder.
Shit let this guy go, atleast he was under orders. As opposed to the Japanese who just did it for "fun". These old men aren't killing anyone now, and are probably regretting what they did.
EDIT
To put it in perspective, the dutch are basically asking to nab a guy like this
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_qR34M6Q_0[/media]
and
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGR1xmJ1nko&feature=related[/media]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;26305599]Murder has no expiration date on prosecution.[/QUOTE]
It's not technically murder if it happened during the war.
[editline]26th November 2010[/editline]
Also, almost in every country, disobeying your superiors' orders in the time of war results in very harsh punishments or even execution. So you can't really blame the guy.
I don't really understand this topic of nazi war crimes, people spend years hunting these guys. Yet when it's Allied guys (Russians,Americans,British) who execute unarmed prisoners, they don't get shit. I understand people particularly hate the Germans for the Jews thing, not all germans knew about that (Including soldiers). But the fact stands that everybody committed war crimes and yet the Germans are seemingly the only ones that go punished.
I don't care if they're 90 years old, if they killed poeple withoud reason ( And it can be proven somehow ) they still need to rot their last years in jail. But it could be that he was forced to kill them by a higher ranked officer and there was no way out.
[QUOTE=cheezey;26307335]I don't care if they're 90 years old, if they killed poeple withoud reason ( And it can be proven somehow ) they still need to rot their last years in jail. But it could be that he was forced to kill them by a higher ranked officer and there was no way out.[/QUOTE]
So what about the countless surviving Japanese veterans? Surely they should be treated the same.
[QUOTE=aydin690;26306626]It's not technically murder if it happened during the war.
[editline]26th November 2010[/editline]
Also, almost in every country, disobeying your superiors' orders in the time of war results in very harsh punishments or even execution. So you can't really blame the guy.[/QUOTE]
Killing enemy combatants during war isn't murder, killing innocent civilians is.
[QUOTE=Tudd;26307374]So what about the countless surviving Japanese veterans? Surely they should be treated the same.[/QUOTE]
Well, they sure deserve to, but the Japanese legal system and bad documentation of Chinese genocide make it pretty hard to prosecute them
We also try to convict old people whit severe health problems (and proven not guilty in Israel).
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