• America won't bomb Iran, but other countries might.
    55 replies, posted
[quote]Let's be serious for a moment. President Barack Obama will not bomb Iran. This is not because he is a liberal, or because he is a peacenik, or because he doesn't have the guts to try and "save" his presidency in this time-honored manner, as Sarah Palin [URL="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTI5NzBmYThkM2M5MDI4NThiMDQwNGU1NmRkMzMxMDE="]said she would like him to do[/URL]. The president will not bomb Iran's nuclear installations for precisely the same reasons that George W. Bush did not bomb Iran's nuclear installations: because we don't know exactly where they all are, because we don't know whether such a raid could stop the Iranian nuclear program for more than a few months, and because Iran's threatened response—against Israelis and U.S. troops, via Iran's allies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Lebanon—isn't one we want to cope with at this precise moment. Nor do we want the higher oil prices that would instantly follow. No U.S. president doing a sober calculation would want to start a new war of choice while U.S. troops are still actively engaged on two other fronts, and no U.S. president could expect public support for more than a nanosecond. But even if Obama does not bomb Iran, that doesn't mean that no one else will. At the moment, when Washington is consumed by health care and the [URL="http://www.slate.com/id/2241945/"]implications of the Massachusetts Senate special election[/URL], it may seem as if Obama's most important legacy, positive or negative, will be domestic. In the future, we may not consider any of this at all important. The defining moment of his presidency may well come at 2 a.m. some day, when he picks up the phone and is told that the Israeli prime minister is on the line: Israel has just carried out a raid on Iranian nuclear sites. What then? This is hardly an inevitable scenario: If the Israelis were as enthusiastic about bombing raids as some believe, they would have carried them out already. They had no qualms about sending eight jets to [URL="http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/mcnair41/41osi.htm"]take out Saddam Hussein's nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981[/URL] or about [URL="http://www.slate.com/id/2175551/"]bombing a purported Syrian facility in 2007[/URL]. Both are now considered model operations. They were brief and successful, they provoked no serious retaliation, and they even won de facto acceptance from the outside world as legitimate defensive measures. The Iranian context is different, as Zeev Raz, the squadron leader of the 1981 raid, readily concedes. "There is no single target that you could bomb with eight aircraft," he told the [I]Economist[/I] (in a [URL="http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15213442"]strangely tragic article[/URL] that says Raz "exudes gloom" while his children apply for foreign passports). The Israelis have the same doubts as everyone else about the efficacy of raids, which is why they have focused on covert sabotage and even off-the-record diplomacy, despite having no diplomatic relations with Iran, in the hopes of [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1122798.html"]slowing down the nuclear development process[/URL]. They have also quietly studied the ways in which Iran could be deterred, knowing that they will have the advantage in nuclear technology for the next couple of decades. Though they keep all options on the table, they have so far concluded that bombing raids aren't worth the consequences. At some point in the future, [URL="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903u/netanyahu"]that calculation could change[/URL]. Since Americans often assume that everyone else perceives the world the same way we do, it is worth repeating the obvious here: Many Israelis regard the Iranian nuclear program as a matter of life and death. The prospect of a nuclear Iran isn't an irritant or a distant threat. It is understood directly in the context of the Iranian president's provocative attacks on Israel's right to exist and of his [URL="http://www.slate.com/id/2155328/"]public support for historians who deny the Holocaust[/URL]. If you want to make Israelis paranoid, hint that they might be the target of an attempted mass murder. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad does exactly that. If that ever happened, the 2 a.m. phone call would be followed by retaliation, some of which would be directed at us, our troops in Iraq, our ships at sea. I don't want this to happen, but I do want us to be prepared if it does. Contrary to Palin, I do not think Obama would restore the fortunes of his presidency by bombing Iran, like a character out of the movie [I][URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0780622561?ie=UTF8&tag=slatmaga-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0780622561"]Wag the Dog[/URL][/I]. But I do hope that this administration is ready, militarily and psychologically, not for a war of choice but for an unwanted war of necessity. This is real life, after all, not Hollywood. [/quote][URL]http://www.slate.com/id/2245619/?GT1=38001[/URL] Why can't we all just be friends. Why can't I have friends :/
There is no [i]real[/i] reason for us to bomb Iran. I'm gonna make a fort!
Besides take out it's nuclear facilities. Which if you read the article Israel has done twice over 30 years.
[QUOTE=Jakobi;20388743]Besides take out it's nuclear facilities. Which if you read the article Israel has done twice over 30 years.[/QUOTE] butt werld wur tree!11
We should sell weapons to the nations that will bomb Iran, we could make a lot of money off it. This is how we're best at making money
[QUOTE=Dr.C;20388820]We should sell weapons to the nations that will bomb Iran, we could make a lot of money off it. This is how we're best at making money[/QUOTE] We kinda are.
[QUOTE=Dr.C;20388820]We should sell weapons to the nations that will bomb Iran, we could make a lot of money off it. This is how we're best at making money[/QUOTE] Soviet–Afghan War?
Boy, making friends with moderate Iran back in early 2001-2002 would have been a lot easier than dealing with the more extremist Iranian leadership now.
[QUOTE=Dr.C;20388820]We should sell weapons to the nations that will bomb Iran, we could make a lot of money off it. This is how we're best at making money[/QUOTE] In twenty years Israel will be bombing us because we sold them weapons but didn't help clean up the mess. Hey, it happened in the Cold War..
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;20389491]In twenty years Israel will be bombing us because we sold them weapons but didn't help clean up the mess. Hey, it happened in the Cold War..[/QUOTE] lol this is ridiculous and will never happen in a million years
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;20388981]Boy, making friends with moderate Iran back in early 2001-2002 would have been a lot easier than dealing with the more extremist Iranian leadership now.[/QUOTE] Why would we do this?
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;20389799]Why would we do this?[/QUOTE] Yeah why make friends? :/
Let Israel bomb them, they like doing that sort of thing anyway. They did it the last time iran did anything nuclear.
[QUOTE=Dr.C;20388820]We should sell weapons to the nations that will bomb Iran, we could make a lot of money off it. This is how we're best at making money[/QUOTE] Yessir, ever since 1945. Nationalist China, South Korea, South Vietnam, non-communist Cambodia and Laos, Soviet-Afghan War, Chinese-Soviet War, numerous Middle Eastern wars, Taiwan, Georgia... Secretly funding the enemy of our enemy gets us in good positions, even though it always comes back to bite us. The two main nations I'd worry about currently are Georgia and Taiwan, to sell to, that is, because their respective enemies are both not happy with us and are only getting more aggressive towards us.
[QUOTE=Detective P;20390509]worry about currently are Georgia and Taiwan, to sell to, that is, because their respective enemies are both not happy with us and are only getting more aggressive towards us.[/QUOTE] Umm. The USA already has an arms deal with Taiwan, despite China's obvious disapproval. It was in the news a few weeks ago. [editline]08:45PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;20389491]In twenty years Israel will be bombing us because we sold them weapons but didn't help clean up the mess. Hey, it happened in the Cold War..[/QUOTE] USA used to and currently gives weapons to Israel, they are like best buddies. The only reason Israel is still on the map is because of USA intervention.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20390561]Umm. The USA already has an arms deal with Taiwan, despite China's obvious disapproval. It was in the news a few weeks ago. [editline]08:45PM[/editline] USA used to and currently gives weapons to Israel, they are like best buddies. The only reason Israel is still on the map is because of USA intervention.[/QUOTE] That was my point. We're aiding the enemies of the two other world powers big enough to push us around together.
One wildcard that no one mentions is that big parts of Israel are also Muslim holy sites and/or important to Muslims. If Iran were to pop off even a small nuke on any part of Israel, they'd be pissing on their own holy lands. Especially if the fallout blew over to Saudi Arabia. I think this may keep them, or anyone Christian or Muslim, from ever nuking Israel. Too many of those religious people have a stake in that territory, they want it in one piece. So while Israel may be the most paranoid about nuclear Iran, I think others including the US have more to fear from an actual attack.
What is happening with Iran feels like a pressure cooker. We don't know if the pressure is going to increase or settle. I guess we wait and see who is going to put wood in the fire, or try to pull some away. The reason Israel would bomb Iran's nuclear plants is when diplomacy with Iran leads to nothing.
[QUOTE=Howlthrug;20391360]What is happening with Iran feels like a pressure cooker. We don't know if the pressure is going to increase or settle. I guess we wait and see who is going to put wood in the fire, or try to pull some away. The reason Israel would bomb Iran's nuclear plants is when diplomacy with Iran leads to nothing.[/QUOTE] That's what happens when you're taught from birth to hate everything about the other country/religion.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20391680]That's what happens when you're taught from birth to hate everything about the other country/religion.[/QUOTE] The world is separated by countries, opinions, and selfishness.
This article doesn't really sell me...
Good. It's about time someone else took up trying to be the white knight of the world. America needs a break. And of course Sarah Palin wants to bomb Iran. [B]BUTTT....[/B] If Obama did go through with it, he wouldn't go a single day without getting criticized to hell and back. He could do exactly what the Republicans say they would do and they would call him a conformist. If he did what he wanted to do they would say he is ruining everything. Poor guy can't win with them. Our political system is fucking broken. And surely people must realize that war is not the answer with Iran? That would just make it worse for everyone. There are better ways.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;20388697]There is no [i]real[/i] reason for us to bomb Iran.[/QUOTE] Have you been not paying attention to the news for the last few years?
You guys do realize, that the USA basically created Israel after WWII? Israel is our bitch
[QUOTE=Dmarine;20392250]Have you been not paying attention to the news for the last few years?[/QUOTE] Are you 12?
I say let Israel die. It's bound to happen eventually when you're surrounded by nothing but people who want to destroy you.
As long as the US isn't paying for it, I'm cool with it.
Just bomb them. Stop making everyone else do it The ad at the bottom is an American ad saying they want a Nuclear Free world. Why won't you just take them out then?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;20389491]In twenty years Israel will be bombing us because we sold them weapons but didn't help clean up the mess. Hey, it happened in the Cold War..[/QUOTE] Bahaha, we could kick Israels ass if we wanted to, they wouldn't ever be stupid enough to attack us, especially over that. Besides, even if they did attack us, the rest of our allies would have our back as well, and seeing how we're kinda allied with Israel, they'd have nothing backing THEM up from THEIR enemies.
i'll be ready for those faggots
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