Polish resistance leader re-interred in military cemetery - Polidicks

[quote] Poland's president and government ministers attended the state burial Sunday of a World War II resistance commander and communist regime victim whose remains were found in a hidden mass grave. The funeral at Warsaw's Powazki military cemetery was part of democratic Poland's efforts to remind the nation about facts and figures from the past that were taboo themes under decades of communism — for example, resistance against the regime and the persecution it was met with. ... One of the victims was Col. Zygmunt Szendzielarz, codename "Lupaszka," who was executed in a Warsaw prison in 1951, aged 41. An officer of a mounted regiment, he fought against the Nazi German and Soviet invasion in September 1939 and later led an underground resistance movement. He continued his fight for Poland's sovereignty after communism was imposed on Poland in 1945. Secret security agents arrested him in 1948 and he was given a death sentence.[/quote] [url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/poland-buries-remains-world-war-ii-resistance-commander-38634357[/url] Makes you realise the Soviets were just as bad as the Nazis. They did terrible things that we commonly overlook because they were once allies of convenience.

[QUOTE]Makes you realise the Soviets were just as bad as the Nazis. [/QUOTE] they weren't though. They were terrible but not on the same level as Hitler

[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50198028]they weren't though. They were terrible but not on the same level as Hitler[/QUOTE] Stalin killed more people in his purges and 5 year plans

[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50198028]they weren't though. They were terrible but not on the same level as Hitler[/QUOTE] The Soviets killed just as many people as Hitler did and then raped their way through Eastern Europe. Yes I can.

[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50198028]they weren't though. They were terrible but not on the same level as Hitler[/QUOTE] Yeah! Stalin did more racial purges and or sent people to camps aswell as banning any form of religion and generally killed more people than Hitler. But Hitler is the bad guy.

[QUOTE=Passing;50198050]Yeah! Stalin did more racial purges and or sent people to camps aswell as banning any form of religion and generally killed more people than Hitler. But Hitler is the bad guy.[/QUOTE] They're both horrible people.

[QUOTE=Passing;50198050]Yeah! Stalin did more racial purges and or sent people to camps aswell as banning any form of religion[/QUOTE] While I do believe that Stalin wasn't any better than Hitler, forced secularization isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[QUOTE=mralexs;50198053]They're both horrible people.[/QUOTE] I feel like [URL="http://www.fallen.io/ww2/"]this would be relevant to the conversation.[/URL]

[QUOTE=AhoyMate;50198073]While I do believe that Stalin wasn't any better than Hitler, forced secularization isn't necessarily a bad thing.[/QUOTE] Anything "forced" is bad. You're forcefully taking away somebody's choice.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubingiai_massacre?wprov=sfta1[/url] Just FYI, that guy was a war criminal responsible for deaths of many men, women and children as young as four months of age. He most certainly doesnt deserve any honors.

[QUOTE=mralexs;50198090]Anything "forced" is bad. You're forcefully taking away somebody's choice.[/QUOTE] We have laws that forcefully take away your choice to go murder people. Is that bad?

[QUOTE=download;50198042]The Soviets killed just as many people as Hitler did and then raped their way through Eastern Europe. Yes I can.[/QUOTE] No, they killed more people than Hitler did, so they're arguably worse. Don't spout misinformation.

[QUOTE=elowin;50198097]We have laws that forcefully take away your choice to go murder people. Is that bad?[/QUOTE] No, but you bring up a good point. There a lot of bad choices laws prevent you from doing. However, forcing somebody to believe something because [I]you[/I] believe it is true is wrong.

Both leaders were terrible human beings, why are people having a pissing match over how many people died under their respective regimes?

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50198155]Both leaders were terrible human beings, why are people having a pissing match over how many people died under their respective regimes?[/QUOTE] Specifics, It's all about specifics. It's so when someone else goes to repeat that fact, they don't get it wrong as you may end up believing that music boxes have tiny men in them that sing.

[QUOTE=AhoyMate;50198073]While I do believe that Stalin wasn't any better than Hitler, forced secularization isn't necessarily a bad thing.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=elowin;50198097]We have laws that forcefully take away your choice to go murder people. Is that bad?[/QUOTE] I didn't realize there were non-Russian Stalin apologists Gulags were just misrepresented boy scout camps too, I suppose

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50198577]I didn't realize there were non-Russian Stalin apologists Gulags were just misrepresented boy scout camps too, I suppose[/QUOTE] Tankies are a special breed of lunacy.

I can see this thread is already headed in a constructive direction.

tbh Soviet war crimes in Germany at least are nothing compared to the shit the Nazis did in Soviet Union. I'm guess I'm just biased, seeing as how my family is from Belarus, where over 2 million people (a quarter of the population) were butchered by the Nazis, and over 5,295 settlements were burnt down. Not to mention the German plans to enslave and exterminate the entire population in the territories of the Soviet Union. [editline]26th April 2016[/editline] The only real reason why Stalin was able to kill more than Hitler is he actually got to carry out his plans, otherwise I'm close to certain the death toll of both leaders would've been very similar.

[QUOTE=Araknid;50198686] The only real reason why Stalin was able to kill more than Hitler is he actually got to carry out his plans, otherwise I'm close to certain the death toll of both leaders would've been very similar.[/QUOTE] What-ifs have no welcome in history. Stalin killed more than Hitler, end of story. There is no "well Hitler [I]almost could have[/I] killed more if he had the chance" - he didn't have the chance and he didn't kill more. Hitler was a terrible human being and Stalin just as much.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50198577]I didn't realize there were non-Russian Stalin apologists Gulags were just misrepresented boy scout camps too, I suppose[/QUOTE] Oh shit, didn't know that I was a fan of Stalin (or USSR) but hey ya learn something new everyday. :frown:

[QUOTE=AhoyMate;50198941]Oh shit, didn't know that I was a fan of Stalin (or USSR) but hey ya learn something new everyday. :frown:[/QUOTE] Your "forced secularization isn't a bad thing" just so happen to come with a large death toll in the USSR, so it's kind of hard to not see it as an apology for Stalin's actions.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50198965]Your "forced secularization isn't a bad thing" just so happen to come with a large death toll in the USSR, so it's kind of hard to not see it as an apology for Stalin's actions.[/QUOTE] Ignoring the death toll, from a moral standpoint forcing someone to believe what you believe is wrong.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;50198092][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubingiai_massacre?wprov=sfta1[/url] Just FYI, that guy was a war criminal responsible for deaths of many men, women and children as young as four months of age. He most certainly doesnt deserve any honors.[/QUOTE] [citation needed]

[QUOTE=Araknid;50198686]tbh Soviet war crimes in Germany at least are nothing compared to the shit the Nazis did in Soviet Union. I'm guess I'm just biased, seeing as how my family is from Belarus, where over 2 million people (a quarter of the population) were butchered by the Nazis, and over 5,295 settlements were burnt down. Not to mention the German plans to enslave and exterminate the entire population in the territories of the Soviet Union. [editline]26th April 2016[/editline] The only real reason why Stalin was able to kill more than Hitler is he actually got to carry out his plans, otherwise I'm close to certain the death toll of both leaders would've been very similar.[/QUOTE] And Stalin killed my great-grandfather in the Katyn massacre, then sent the surviving part of my grandfather's family to a camp in Siberia, where a great-aunt of mine was born and died. When I came back from vacation in Berlin, the first thing my babcia said to me is "Never forget, the Russians were just as bad." It's because of the Russians that my grandparents fled Poland to Canada because Stalin was turning it into a shithole and confiscated all my family's property, leaving them with nothing after the war. Stalin was a red fascist.

[QUOTE=download;50198042]The Soviets killed just as many people as Hitler did and then raped their way through Eastern Europe. Yes I can.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=space1;50198127]No, they killed more people than Hitler did, so they're arguably worse. Don't spout misinformation.[/QUOTE] How bad someone is is solely determined how many people they've killed. No problems with the Genocide Olympics going on here. [QUOTE=download;50198593]Tankies are a special breed of lunacy.[/QUOTE] Everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. [QUOTE=download;50198042]The Soviets killed just as many people as Hitler did and then raped their way through Eastern Europe. Yes I can.[/QUOTE] If the Soviets were as bad as the Nazis, Eastern Germany would be called "New Russia", and be solely populated by ethnic Russians.

[QUOTE=Fayez;50199283]How bad someone is is [B]solely determined[/B] how many people they've killed. No problems with the Genocide Olympics going on here.[/QUOTE] No one said this???? Both of them appointed fascist dictatorships to all neighboring countries, committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. They were both also paranoid and had higher-ups killed for petty reasoning. They're both terrible people, whether you think ones worse than the other is on you, but it could be true. In the end, why does it matter? The point of the discussion is that Stalin was no better, and also had his fair share of atrocities that a lot of people don't know about, or skip over when they talk about WW2. [quote]If the Soviets were as bad as the Nazis, Eastern Germany would be called "New Russia", and be solely populated by ethnic Russians.[/quote] Why would it be called "new russia"? Eastern Germany was at most just another part of the curtain like Poland and Romania and such. So in that sense would I be calling Poland "New Poland" too?

[QUOTE=SonicHitman;50199545]No one said this???? Both of them appointed fascist dictatorships to all neighboring countries, committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. They were both also paranoid and had higher-ups killed for petty reasoning. They're both terrible people, whether you think ones worse than the other is on you, but it could be true. In the end, why does it matter? The point of the discussion is that Stalin was no better, and also had his fair share of atrocities that a lot of people don't know about, or skip over when they talk about WW2.[/QUOTE] I agree that Stalin's atrocities are skipped over frequently, but people in this thread are just saying more deaths = worse as a statement of fact. No actual discussions into why, just focusing on the numbers nothing more. [QUOTE]Why would it be called "new russia"? Eastern Germany was at most just another part of the curtain like Poland and Romania and such. So in that sense would I be calling Poland "New Poland" too?[/QUOTE] No, I was referring [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost"]Generalplan Ost.[/URL] The Nazi plan to literally exterminate most of Eastern Europe in order to create "living space" for the pure Aryan race. That's why I consider the Nazis to be much worse than the Soviet Union.

[QUOTE=SonicHitman;50199545]Why would it be called "new russia"? Eastern Germany was at most just another part of the curtain like Poland and Romania and such. So in that sense would I be calling Poland "New Poland" too?[/QUOTE] He means that the difference between the Nazis and the Russians is that the Nazis enforced cultural hegemony over the countries they conquered, as well as exterminated the local population. If russia were as bad as germany, they would have attempted to erase german culture, exterminate german people, and repopulate germany with russians entirely, as germany had planned to do with russia. Not agreeing with him here, though

[QUOTE=download;50197882][url]The funeral at Warsaw's Powazki military cemetery was part of democratic Poland's efforts to remind the nation about facts and figures from the past that were taboo themes under decades of communism — for example, resistance against the regime and the persecution it was met with.[/QUOTE] Hi, I'm from Poland, we had many forgotten heroes, but actually 'Lupaszka' shoudn't be considered one. He was responsible for giving order to killing civilians, including womens, elderly and children, as for 'reprisal action'. Institute of National Remembrance in Poland confirmed this. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubingiai_massacre ) Right now, right winged politics here use those 'Cursed soldiers' to gain support. They forget that it wasn't some orginized movement, but many inderpendent groups, from which most was great, but some were also robbers, murderers (like 'Lupaszka') and rapists. And they try to make them equal. Which in my opinion sucks. People who killed innocent children shouldn't EVER be glorified. Especially while we have some true heroes like Pilecki. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki )