[quote=New York Times]JALALABAD, Afghanistan — The American-backed campaign to persuade legions of Taliban gunmen to stop fighting got under way here recently, in an ornate palace filled with Afghan tribal leaders and one very large former warlord leading the way. “O.K., I want you guys to go out there and persuade the Taliban to sit down and talk,” Gul Agha Shirzai, the governor of Nangarhar Province, told a group of 25 tribal leaders from four eastern provinces. In a previous incarnation, Mr. Shirzai was the American-picked governor of Kandahar Province after the Taliban fell in 2001.
“Do whatever you have to do,” the rotund Mr. Shirzai told the assembled elders. “I’ll back you up.”
After about two hours of talking, Mr. Shirzai and the tribal elders rose, left for their respective provinces and promised to start turning the enemy.
The meeting is part of a battlefield push to lure local fighters and commanders away from the Taliban by offering them jobs in development projects that Afghan tribal leaders help select, paid by the American military and the Afghan government.
By enlisting the tribal leaders to help choose the development projects, the Americans also hope to help strengthen both the Afghan government and the Pashtun tribal networks.
These efforts are focusing on rank-and-file Taliban; while there are some efforts under way to negotiate with the leaders of the main insurgent groups, neither American nor Afghan officials have much faith that those talks will succeed soon.
Afghanistan has a long history of fighters switching sides — sometimes more than once. Still, efforts so far to persuade large numbers of Taliban fighters to give up have been less than a complete success. To date, about 9,000 insurgents have turned in their weapons and agreed to abide by the Afghan Constitution, said Muhammad Akram Khapalwak, the chief administrator for the Peace and Reconciliation Commission in Kabul.
But in an impoverished country ruined by 30 years of war, tribal leaders said that many more insurgents would happily put down their guns if there was something more worthwhile to do.
“Most of the Taliban in my area are young men who need jobs,” said Hajji Fazul Rahim, a leader of the Abdulrahimzai tribe, which spans three eastern provinces. “We just need to make them busy. If we give them work, we can weaken the Taliban.”
In the Jalalabad program, tribal elders would reach out to Taliban commanders to press them to change sides. The commanders and their fighters then would be offered jobs created by local development programs.
The Pashtuns, who form the core of the Taliban, make up a largely tribal society, with families connected to one another by kinship and led by groups of elders. Over the years, the Pashtun tribes have been substantially weakened, with elders singled out by three groups: Taliban fighters, the rebels who fought the former Soviet Union and the soldiers of the former Soviet Union itself. The decimation of the tribes has left Afghan society largely atomized.
Afghan and American officials hope that the plan to make peace with groups of Taliban fighters will complement an American-led effort to set up anti-Taliban militias in many parts of the country: the Pashtun tribes will help fight the Taliban, and they will make deals with the Taliban. And, by so doing, Afghan tribal society can be reinvigorated.
“We’re trying to put pressure on the leaders, and at the same time peel away their young fighters,” said an American military official in Kabul involved in the reconciliation effort. “This is not about handing bags of money to an insurgent.”
The Afghan reconciliation plan is intended to duplicate the Awakening movement in Iraq, where Sunni tribal leaders, many of them insurgents, agreed to stop fighting and in many cases were paid to do so. The Awakening contributed to the remarkable decline in violence in Iraq.
In the autumn of 2001, during the opening phase of the American-led war in Afghanistan, dozens of warlords fighting for the Taliban agreed to defect to the American-backed rebels. As in Iraq, the defectors were often enticed by cash, sometimes handed out by American Army Special Forces officers.
At a ceremony earlier this month in Kabul, about 70 insurgents laid down their guns before the commissioners and agreed to accept the Afghan Constitution. Some of the men had fought for the Taliban, some for Hezb-i-Islami, another insurgent group. The fighters’ motives ranged from disillusion to exhaustion.
“How long should we fight the government? How many more years?” said Molawi Fazullah, a Taliban lieutenant who surrendered with nine others. “Our leaders misled us, and we destroyed our country.”
Like many fighters who gave up at the ceremony, he shrouded his face with a scarf and sunglasses, for fear of being identified by his erstwhile comrades.
The Americans say they have no plans to give cash to local Taliban commanders. They say they would rather give them jobs.
In a defense appropriations bill recently approved by Congress, lawmakers set aside $1.3 billion for a program known by its acronym, CERP, a discretionary fund for American officers. Ordinarily, CERP money is used for development projects, but the language in the bill says officers can use the money to support the “reintegration into Afghan society” of those who have given up fighting.
For all the efforts under way to entice Taliban fighters to change sides, there will always be the old-fashioned approach: deadly force. American commanders also want to squeeze them; such is the rationale behind Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal’s request for tens of thousands of additional American troops.
Indeed, sometimes force alone does the trick. On Oct. 9, American Special Forces soldiers killed Ghulam Yahia, an insurgent commander believed responsible for, among other things, sending several suicide bombers into the western city of Herat. Mr. Yahia had changed sides himself in the past: earlier in the decade, he was Herat’s mayor.
When the Americans killed Mr. Yahia, in a mountain village called Bedak, 120 of his fighters defected to the Afghan government. Others went into hiding. Abdul Wahab, a former lieutenant of Mr. Yahia’s who led the defectors, said that the Afghan government had so far done nothing to protect them or offer them jobs. But he said he was glad he had made the jump anyway.
“We are tired of war,” he said. “We don’t want it anymore.” [/quote]
Source: [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/28/world/asia/28militias.html?_r=1&hp[/url]
Tl;dr version: Tribal leaders are told to go to their groups and ask them to politely defect from the Taliban. If they choose to do so, they are promised paid work offered by the American military and Afghani officials.
I don't know what to think of this. It some ways, its good as we'll be slowly ending the war in Afghanistan and helping a country rebuild. In some way, it could just lead to insurgencies possibly. Thoughts?
i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;18624702]i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears[/QUOTE]
Many afghans consider themselves members of one or another tribe. It's part of their culture. I like how you refer to their culture as if they were savages.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;18624702]i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears[/QUOTE]
I think that's your narrow understanding of the word "tribe" to be honest.
It's not a completely horrible idea, your front line Taliban fighter isn't always as batshit insane as the people commanding him. It might cut their numbers a little, but it's not going to end the war.
I do wonder how the Taliban compare to other employers in the area...
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;18624702]i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears[/QUOTE]
I am so very surprised you do not already have more boxes.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;18625064]It's not a completely horrible idea, your front line Taliban fighter isn't always as batshit insane as the people commanding him. It might cut their numbers a little, but it's not going to end the war.
I do wonder how the Taliban compare to other employers in the area...[/QUOTE]
Even if it only convinces a few to lay down their arms, it means they'll be contributing to their country instead of destabilizing it. This is something we should work towards.
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;18625054]I think that's your narrow understand of the word "tribe" to be honest.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.superchefblog.com/images/survivor_logo.png[/media]
First thought that came to my mind.
But, you are right.
Connotative meaning: A group of savages who live in the jungle (at least my opinion)
Denotative meaning: A social group of people before sovereign states (before kingdoms or countries were formed is a good example.)
This might work, who knows.
[QUOTE=scout1;18625154]Even if it only convinces a few to lay down their arms, it means they'll be contributing to their country instead of destabilizing it. This is something we should work towards.[/QUOTE]
True, the program is worth having whatever the number of defectors is.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;18624702]i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears[/QUOTE]
ಠ_ಠ
Troll leave this place.
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;18624702]i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/rating/box.png[/IMG]
yes tribe means savage barbarians and natives clucking and waving spears around
yes it all makes sense
Something is going to go terribly wrong.
The only way to win in Afghanistan is to industrialize it, which is impossible and will never happen.
Tbh, what we should be doing is having our own governments buying the Heroin from the growers in Afghanistan for a higher price, then destroying it later. It would still be cheaper than using the military to fight an almost hopeless war against the farmers and their only way of making money. At the end of the day, if you're being paid, who gives a fuck if you're selling to Taliban or the US government.
[QUOTE=LordLoss;18626073]Tbh, what we should be doing is having our own governments buying the Heroin from the growers in Afghanistan for a higher price, then destroying it later. It would still be cheaper than using the military to fight an almost hopeless war against the farmers and their only way of making money. At the end of the day, if you're being paid, who gives a fuck if you're selling to Taliban or the US government.[/QUOTE]
...
Yes, let's waste US taxpayer money buying heroin.
We already used taxpayer money to arm the same people we're fighting, it's not like it could get worse.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;18625571]Something is going to go terribly wrong.[/QUOTE]
another paranoid conservative
[QUOTE=Aurastorm;18624702]i like it how they refer to them as tribes, as if we're fighting a bunch of savage barbarians with spears[/QUOTE]
That's how they refer to themselves, don't talk about this stuff if you have no idea about it but a glowing opinion.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;18625064]It's not a completely horrible idea, your front line Taliban fighter isn't always as batshit insane as the people commanding him. It might cut their numbers a little, but it's not going to end the war.
I do wonder how the Taliban compare to other employers in the area...[/QUOTE]
The frontline Taliban fighters are the batshit insane ones. The commanders probably don't believe half the BS they tell the fighting men.
That said, many Taliban fighters were conscripted, so the strategy is still a good one.
[QUOTE=archangel125;18632862]The frontline Taliban fighters are the batshit insane ones. The commanders probably don't believe half the BS they tell the fighting men.
That said, many Taliban fighters were conscripted, so the strategy is still a good one.[/QUOTE]
A lot of Afghanistan's opium farmers started growing it because they couldn't feed themselves growing anything else. I have absolutely no data to support this, but I do find myself wondering if some people join the Taliban out of desperation and not ideology. And, of course, there's the conscription aspect as well.
I thought Jalalalabad was a made up city in BF2, this article show it isn't.
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