US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital, State Dept to move embassy - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42259443[/url] [quote]President Trump has announced that the US now recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Mr Trump described the move as "a long overdue step" to advance the Middle East peace process. The president said the US would support a two-state solution, if approved by both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Ahead of the decision, a spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas warned it would have "dangerous consequences" for the region.[/quote]

I'm not convinced this will help any peace process but whatever

Starpluck's gonna be mad.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52951915]I'm not convinced this will help any peace process but whatever[/QUOTE] It won't help but the Palestinians are pretty clear that they won't settle for anything less than all of Israel so it's not like there was a peace process anyway

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52951943]It won't help but the Palestinians are pretty clear that they won't settle for anything less than all of Israel so it's not like there was a peace process anyway[/QUOTE] Neither side was doing much. Let's not paint this issue as wholly being the fault of only one side.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52951943]It won't help but the Palestinians are pretty clear that they won't settle for anything less than all of Israel so it's not like there was a peace process anyway[/QUOTE] What kind of argument is that? "Let's not be the better man, we should just stop giving a shit and do no effort whatsoever".

What did they consider Israel's capital before? edit: Tel Aviv apparently. ... and the backpedaling from the white house has already started [quote]White House officials have said Mr Trump's decision is a "recognition of current and historic reality" but is not a political statement, and will not change the physical and political borders of Jerusalem.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52952006]Neither side was doing much. Let's not paint this issue as wholly being the fault of only one side.[/QUOTE] Israel offered the Palestinians everything they wanted in the 2008 deal and Abbas refused the deal. In 2010, Israel froze all building in settlements for peace and that still wasn't enough for Palestinians. Meanwhile, Israel just asks Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and stop carrying out terror attacks. Both sides have done bad things but the fault clearly lies on the Palestinians.

[quote]but is not a political statement[/quote] Thus demonstrating that said White House officials either know nothing about the situation over there -- or are choosing to plead ignorance. Frightening [B]and[/B] idiotic; a great combination package for conducting international diplomacy, especially if your goal is to cause wars so that you can justify throwing your big, meaty, war package at it.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52952233]Israel offered the Palestinians everything they wanted in the 2008 deal and Abbas refused the deal. In 2010, Israel froze all building in settlements for peace and that still wasn't enough for Palestinians. Meanwhile, Israel just asks Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and stop carrying out terror attacks. Both sides have done bad things but the fault clearly lies on the Palestinians.[/QUOTE] Israel takes 10 steps forward and gets upset when Palestinians ask for more when they take 2 steps back Middle East politics in a nutshell

[QUOTE=_Axel;52952021]What kind of argument is that? "Let's not be the better man, we should just stop giving a shit and do no effort whatsoever".[/QUOTE] No point in trying to make things better with tyrant leaders who say "give us all or no peace" for the past 50 years.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52952385]No point in trying to make things better with tyrant leaders who say "give us all or no peace" for the past 50 years.[/QUOTE] So you should be absolved for making no effort? For doing dubious things yourself? Pretty shitty mindset.

[QUOTE=_Axel;52952408]So you should be absolved for making no effort? For doing dubious things yourself? Pretty shitty mindset.[/QUOTE] literally offered them everything they wanted in 2008 + froze settlement building in 2010 for a chance at peace, wtf are you talking about? There was tons of efforts made.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52952428]literally offered them everything they wanted in 2008 + froze settlement building in 2010 for a chance at peace, wtf are you talking about? There was tons of efforts made.[/QUOTE] Not saying you made no effort, just calling out RzDat for basically saying none should be made.

[media]https://twitter.com/anniekarni/status/938536270111887360[/media] What a bunch of morons. Good Job, White House. Good job. :goodjob:

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52952781][media]https://twitter.com/anniekarni/status/938536270111887360[/media] What a bunch of morons. Good Job, White House. Good job. :goodjob:[/QUOTE] But also chuck schumer was the one who made the recommendation for the move in the first place. which is an awfully cynical move.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52952781][media]https://twitter.com/anniekarni/status/938536270111887360[/media] What a bunch of morons. Good Job, White House. Good job. :goodjob:[/QUOTE] arabs are generally too busy with domestic problems + iranian imperialism to care about Palestinians right now, it'll blow over

[quote]We're prepared for derailment -- temporary,[b] I hope[/b]. Pretty sure it will be temporary," said a senior White House official, who acknowledged that the President's peace team has not spoken with furious Palestinian officials since the Trump's announcement. That "derailment" was a cost the White House was prepared to accept to fulfill Trump's campaign promise. And two senior White House officials said they felt making the announcement now -- before Israelis and Palestinians have reached the negotiating table -- would help mitigate the damage to the peace process. [/quote] [url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/jerusalem-peace-process-white-house/index.html]Source[/url] [quote]British Prime Minister Theresa May said she intended to speak to Trump about the status of Jerusalem, which she said should be determined as part of a settlement between Israel and the Palestinians. May said the ancient city should ultimately be shared between Israel and a future Palestinian state. She said there should be a sovereign and viable Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution. "The status of Jerusalem should be determined in a negotiated settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians," said May. "Jerusalem should ultimately form a shared capital between the Israeli and Palestinians." Earlier, British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs Boris Johnson says the decision clearly "makes it more important than ever that the long-awaited American proposals on the Middle East peace process are now brought forward." Germany's foreign minister is warning that any U.S. move to recognize Jerusalem as the capital would be dangerous and could deepen the Middle East conflict. [b] Sigmar Gabriel said Tuesday that "recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel does not calm a conflict, rather it fuels it even more," and that such a move "would be a very dangerous development." Gabriel told reporters at NATO headquarters in Brussels that "it's in everyone's interest that this does not happen." [/b] Gabriel said Germany and its European Union partners continue to support a two-state solution between Israel and the Palestinians. [/quote] [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/world-reaction-trump-jerusalem-1.4435037]Source 2 [/url] What an utterly terrible decision, all it's gonna do is piss off the Palestinians and make Israel feel it can milk anything they want from the US, regardless of implications

[QUOTE=_Axel;52952454]Not saying you made no effort, just calling out RzDat for basically saying none should be made.[/QUOTE] Not saying none should be made, but the ton of effort thrown at these attempts are literally pointless. That doesnt mean its okay to ruin it further but on the other hand its a waste of time trying to please a group of leaders who still cant even recognize you as an independent state since the start of this bloody conflict.

Finland, the Czech Republic, the Philippines, and [I]Vanuatu[/I] have all recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital after yesterday's announcement. With the exception of Vanuatu, they did it back in June already. Get fucked donny, they did it first EDIT: seems Germany recognizes it too, though "not internationally recognized". That is what I'm gathering from Wikipedia, anyway. Most of them don't seem to be planning on moving their embassies.

And now we're already [URL="https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-israel-intifada/hamas-calls-for-palestinian-uprising-against-israel-idUSKBN1E10XF?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a290da104d3014bafcb22bd&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook"]seeing shit getting worse[/URL].

Wonder how much Israel payed... 'Lobbyed'... The GOP for this one.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52951943]It won't help but the Palestinians are pretty clear that they won't settle for anything less than all of Israel so it's not like there was a peace process anyway[/QUOTE] All of the Palestinians? Like, all 12 million?

[QUOTE=Killuah;52954074]All of the Palestinians? Like, all 12 million?[/QUOTE] The representative parties of the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, both implicitly and explicitly call for the destruction of the state of Israel. If someone says that the US made a deal, they don't mean that every citizen in the US made a deal.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52954092]The representative parties of the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, both implicitly and explicitly call for the destruction of the state of Israel. If someone says that the US made a deal, they don't mean that every citizen in the US made a deal.[/QUOTE] Just a suggestion then: specify what you mean. Say "Palestine" or whichever else you prefer. When you say "the Palestinians", it does imply it's [I]every single[/I] Palestinian who wants full control over all of Israel. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] I mean, people don't say "the Americans" when they're talking about how fucked up the US government is. They say "the US".

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52954097]Just a suggestion then: specify what you mean. Say "Palestine" or whichever else you prefer. When you say "the Palestinians", it does imply it's [I]every single[/I] Palestinian who wants full control over all of Israel. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] I mean, people don't say "the Americans" when they're talking about how fucked up the US government is. They say "the US".[/QUOTE] Generally people in the conflict refer to each other by nationality, Palestinians refer to the Israeli government the Israelis or the Jews and israeli generally refer to the Palestinian Authority/Hamas as the Palestinians. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52953901]And now we're already [URL="https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-israel-intifada/hamas-calls-for-palestinian-uprising-against-israel-idUSKBN1E10XF?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a290da104d3014bafcb22bd&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook"]seeing shit getting worse[/URL].[/QUOTE] Wait until after the Islamic Friday night prayers, it'll be really bad then.

All the people here claiming that Palestine has historically been in the wrong are incorrect, and don't know their history. Now, I am not justifying terrorism either, and Palestine has done some awful stuff, but Israel has slowly, but surely taken Palestinian land, now building illegal settlements in the West Bank, some of the only remaining bits of land they have. Imagine if a foreign power, in the space of 70 years, took 85% of your country and then began taking more. What would you do?

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52954097]Just a suggestion then: specify what you mean. Say "Palestine" or whichever else you prefer. When you say "the Palestinians", it does imply it's [I]every single[/I] Palestinian who wants full control over all of Israel. [editline]7th December 2017[/editline] I mean, people don't say "the Americans" when they're talking about how fucked up the US government is. They say "the US".[/QUOTE] Unfortunately Palestine isn't a country that exists yet. As Svinnik explained there are currently two Palestinian national entities, namely the Palestinian Authority and the Hamas controlled Gaza strip. Neither is officially referred to as "Palestine". "The Palestinians" is the most common way to refer to both in this context.

Gonna see an embassy bombing in 2018, I guess.

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52954132]All the people here claiming that Palestine has historically been in the wrong are incorrect, and don't know their history. Now, I am not justifying terrorism either, and Palestine has done some awful stuff, but Israel has slowly, but surely taken Palestinian land, now building illegal settlements in the West Bank, some of the only remaining bits of land they have. Imagine if a foreign power, in the space of 70 years, took 85% of your country and then began taking more. What would you do?[/QUOTE] You don't know your history. The West Bank was controlled by Jordan for 20 years before they attacked israel and lost it. Israel controlled the entire west Bank until the oslo accords which split the west bank into Palestinian controlled areas, Israeli controlled areas, and joint controlled areas. All israeli settlements are in the Israeli controlled area. Objectively, Palestinians have more of a country now than they ever did, especially with Hamas and the Palestinian Authority coming to terms and allowing the Palestinian Authority to administer the Gaza border crossings.