911 Tapes reveal Treyvon Martin was screaming and crying for help 45 seconds before he was shot - Polidicks

[video=youtube;KmnqKotpSD0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnqKotpSD0[/video] [quote]Police recordings made the night a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain allegedly shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy outside his stepmother's home sent the boy's mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, "He killed my son," according to a family representative. The series of emergency and non-emergency calls to police depict the apparent progression of events on Feb. 26 that led to the watch captain, George Zimmerman, 28, who is white, allegedly shooting Trayvon Martin, a high-school junior who is black, as the teen made his way home with a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. The contents of the calls and the family's reaction to them were recounted to ABC News by a representative of the boy's family, Ryan Julison, and ABC News affiliate WFTV published excerpts from the 911 calls. On one call to a non-emergency dispatch number, according to Julison, Zimmerman says, "He's checking me out," and then, "This guy looks like he's on drugs, he's definitely messed up." "There's a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something," Zimmerman can be heard telling the dispatcher. "These a**holes always get away," he adds. The dispatcher is heard trying to discourage Zimmerman, asking, "Are you following him?.. Okay, we don't need you to do that." Within minutes, however, 911 calls are being made to police reporting the two are fighting. "They're wrestling right in the back of my porch," one frantic caller says. "The guy's yelling help and I'm not going out." The caller's boyfriend shouts, "Get down," and after the second apparent gunshot the shouts for help cease, Julison told ABC News. "There's gun shots. Uh, I'm pretty sure the guy is dead out here, holy sh**," a caller says into the phone. One witness describes Zimmerman after the shooting. "He's out there with a flashlight. The guy is raising his hands up saying he shot the person," the caller said.[/quote] [url]http://abcnews.go.com/US/treyvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-shooting-911-tapes-send/story?id=15937881[/url]

This shit makes my blood boil. The "watch captain" was specifically told [B]not[/B] to follow the black teen, he ignored the dispatcher anyway, confronted the kid and then killed him. The watch captain was charged with violence several years prior yet he still got away with this murder scot-free.

I dont see how it wasnt Zimmermans fault. The kid was unarmed, witnesses have come forward saying he was crying for help and there is audio to support that, and they told Zimmerman [b]not[/b] to follow him but he did anyway. Some poor kid is dead and his family are grieving because this idiot thought that he was obviously on drugs and decided to take the law into his own hands. I read in another source that this guy called the police nearly 30 times in two months for a million different reasons, hes obviously a wannabe cop. Its even more surprising that he wasnt at least arrested and held for questioning etc. After all, he just shot an unarmed 17 year old dead and was unscathed himself. The kid: [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/3/19/1332191872550/Trayvon-Martin-007.jpg[/img] The shooter: [img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/19/article-0-121B7BC1000005DC-595_306x423.jpg[/img]

I can't imagine self defence being the case when the person you're allegedly being threatened by, with your life in your hands, is crying and screaming for almost a minute for help. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] And yet, the American justice system has decided it's an okay for this to happen, and Zimmerman has yet to have any action taken against him.

He's one of those wannabe cops, but can't actually be a cop because of his history. One of these fucks: [url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whacker[/url]

How in the fuck does this guy still walk free?

[QUOTE=Starpluck;35215127]This shit makes my blood boil. The "watch captain" was specifically told [B]not[/B] to follow the black teen, he ignored the dispatcher anyway, confronted the kid and then killed him. The watch captain was charged with violence several years prior yet he still got away with this murder scot-free.[/QUOTE] 911 operators have no legal authority what so ever to give orders to callers since they them selves are civilians too, and their orders should be taken as advice and nothing more.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215269]911 operators have no legal authority what so ever to give orders to callers since they them selves are civilians too, and their orders should be taken as advice and nothing more.[/QUOTE] Ignoring their advice is a pretty dumb thing to do

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215269]911 operators have no legal authority what so ever to give orders to callers since they them selves are civilians too, and their orders should be taken as advice and nothing more.[/QUOTE] Yeah it isnt law to obey them, but when you arent part of the emergency services and someone from the emergency services tells you that they dont need you to do that, its generally a good idea to listen. Otherwise stuff like this happens. The guy isnt a cop, they told him to stand by until the police got there and not follow the kid, but he decided he wanted to try and be a hero by ignoring that and going after them anyway then some kid ends up dead. It is possible that he suffered 'temporary autism', which is a possible cause for these crazy incidents where unarmed people get shot for little to no reason. When some people become extremely stressed and their body is surging with adrenaline, they lose the ability to read people's faces, emotions, body language etc which is why they end up shooting innocent people who have surrendered, like those incidents where cops have chased people down who are speeding then when the people eventually give up and surrender, they get riddled with bullets anyway because the cops are so stressed and full of adrenaline that they cant think.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215269]911 operators have no legal authority what so ever to give orders to callers since they them selves are civilians too, and their orders should be taken as advice and nothing more.[/QUOTE] Oh holy shit, did he say he had legal authority? No. So why was that post needed? It wasn't.

I'm sorry Lord of Ears, but are you debating the fact 911 operators can't give legally binding orders? Because where I live only the courts legally empowered by the Constitution of this State have the legal power to give orders as long as they are pursuant to the laws of this land, and no-one else. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=BigOwl;35215323]Oh holy shit, did he say he had legal authority? No. So why was that post needed? It wasn't.[/QUOTE] Because he's suggesting that he had some type of obligation to follow the orders of the operator and that not following them somehow makes him more guilty. Meanwhile I am trying to gather the facts of the story and determine that laws the victim violated before he was shot due to the fact one of the callers said the teen was on her back patio, which would surely imply someone was trespassing.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215329] Because he's suggesting that he had some type of obligation to follow the orders of the operator and that not following them somehow makes him more guilty.[/QUOTE] In my opinion that does make him more guilty, but that doesn't mean he has to be more guilty legally. He ignored the operator telling him to wait for the police and he ended up shooting and unarmed teenager. That combined with the fact that he said stuff like "These a**holes always get away", I think in court they could be used to show what kind of mindset he was in at the time. He had only been watching the kid for a short while and he was already calling him and asshole and obviously very agitated. Like I said above he called the police like 30 times in the space of two months for all kinds of reasons, he is obviously the 'whacker' type and decided that he would take the law into his own hands. I'd very much like to hear the call he had with 911 to see how much aggression he had in his voice at the time

I dont understand how he got away with this... really, can anybody explain what his defence was?

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215329]I'm sorry Lord of Ears, but are you debating the fact 911 operators can't give legally binding orders? Because where I live only the courts legally empowered by the Constitution of this State have the legal power to give orders as long as they are pursuant to the laws of this land, and no-one else. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] Because he's suggesting that he had some type of obligation to follow the orders of the operator and that not following them somehow makes him more guilty. Meanwhile I am trying to gather the facts of the story and determine that laws the victim violated before he was shot due to the fact one of the callers said the teen was on her back patio, which would surely imply someone was trespassing.[/QUOTE] i rated you dumb because that post was inappropriate given the subject matter ie nobody gives a shit that a dispatcher's advice isn't legally binding and if you read the article you'd learn that both of them were on the patio but oh no the kid's black so he's the only one liable for trespassing right?

[QUOTE=Scotchair;35215352]I dont understand how he got away with this... really, can anybody explain what his defence was?[/QUOTE] Florida law provides that one has the legal right to defend property of a third party if he has a legal duty to do so (in this case he was a neighborhood watch captain), that section the law how ever justifies force, but NOT deadly force unless it is to stop a violent felony or felony breaking and entering. How ever what complicates this is that he was, as far as I can tell, only Trespassing when he was apparently stopped by Zimmerman, which would have justified non-deadly force under the above statute of Florida law, but as one of the callers said, there was a scuffle, which then would have justified the use of legal force against him since that made it probable that the Teen was committing a 'unlawful and forcible act' against man (such as resisting zimmerman's lawful use of force), which would have legally justified him in shooting to kill the teen. In Texas this would have been more straight forward since deadly force is always justified in defense of a third party instead of this complicated shit.

it actually doesn't specify where the neighborhood watch guy stopped the kid, so your whole argument there is pretty much null

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;35215413]i rated you dumb because that post was inappropriate given the subject matter ie nobody gives a shit that a dispatcher's advice isn't legally binding and if you read the article you'd learn that both of them were on the patio but oh no the kid's black so he's the only one liable for trespassing right?[/QUOTE] First off, I'm Castizo, and my Aunt's black, so stop this racial shit; Secondly, According to the facts of this story Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch Captain, appointed by the Neighborhood's Homeowners' association, thus (and I haven't looked at the laws yet ot make sure, but homeowners' associations tend to have fucked up legal rights) would have given him the legal right to be on the property, whereas the teen was simply a random person [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lord of Ears;35215450]it actually doesn't specify where the neighborhood watch guy stopped the kid, so your whole argument there is pretty much null[/QUOTE] It does, a 911 caller says they are scuffling on her patio then gunshots. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] Oh sorry, he was stopped on a caller's back porch, sorry. [QUOTE]Within minutes, however, 911 calls are being made to police reporting the two are fighting. "They're wrestling right in the back of my porch," one frantic caller says. "The guy's yelling help and I'm not going out." On a second call someone's screams for help can be heard and what sounds like two gunshots.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215463] It does, a 911 caller says they are scuffling on her patio then gunshots.[/QUOTE] "They're wrestling right in the back of my porch" is what they said, and that could mean anything, it doesnt necessarily mean they are on the person's property. And from what we know he went to the shop to buy sweets then came back and Zimmerman followed him, if they were on someone elses property then they were most likely there as a result of the confrontation. [QUOTE=Broseph_;35215463] Secondly, According to the facts of this story Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch Captain[/QUOTE] "Police recordings made the night a [B]self-appointed[/B] neighborhood watch captain allegedly shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy outside his stepmother's home sent the boy's mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, "He killed my son," according to a family representative. "

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215463]First off, I'm Castizo, and my Aunt's black, so stop this racial shit; Secondly, According to the facts of this story Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch Captain, appointed by the Neighborhood's Homeowners' association, thus (and I haven't looked at the laws yet ot make sure, but homeowners' associations tend to have fucked up legal rights) would have given him the legal right to be on the property, whereas the teen was simply a random person[/quote] even so, point still stands [QUOTE=Broseph_;35215463]It does, a 911 caller says they are scuffling on her patio then gunshots.[/QUOTE] exactly, the 911 caller says they are scuffling on her patio it actually doesn't specify where the neighborhood watch guy stopped the kid, so your whole argument there is pretty much null

[QUOTE=Cushie;35215496]"They're wrestling right in the back of my porch" is what they said, and that could mean anything, it doesnt necessarily mean they are on her property. And from what we know he went to the shop to buy sweets then came back and Zimmerman followed him, if they were on someone elses property then they were most likely there as a result of the confrontation. "Police recordings made the night a [B]self-appointed[/B] neighborhood watch captain allegedly shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy outside his stepmother's home sent the boy's mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, "He killed my son," according to a family representative. "[/QUOTE] Oh for fucks sake do I have to quote everything? [QUOTE]When the homeowners association wanted to start a neighborhood watch, only one man stepped up: George Zimmerman, the 28-year-old who admitted to shooting an unarmed Miami Gardens teenager and who is now the focal point of a race-related scandal of national proportions.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Scotchair;35215352]I dont understand how he got away with this... really, can anybody explain what his defence was?[/QUOTE] Self-defence was his defence. They should at least arrest him because of these audio files and all the 911 calls.

Well okay then, I cant help the way it was worded. Argument still stands. This is where he was killed: [img_thumb]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/19/article-0-1216F76D000005DC-115_634x353.jpg[/img_thumb] They were wrestling next to someone's back porch, but the porch is right next to the public path. A different shot of the area. He was killed on the path/grass. [img_thumb]http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/03/17/00/08/1n6ayq.St.56.jpg[/img_thumb] There are witness accounts everywhere that say point to there being a physical confrontation, but they must have been apart for Zimmerman to draw his gun and shoot the kid, which means it wasnt exactly self defense. There is also the fact that you can hear him crying and screaming on the 911 call right before he is shot, why would someone that is a threat to you be crying and screaming?

incoming debate about racism

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;35215506]even so, point still stands exactly, the 911 caller says they are scuffling on her patio it actually doesn't specify where the neighborhood watch guy stopped the kid, so your whole argument there is pretty much null[/QUOTE] I don't get how that nullifies my argument, by the time the kid got shot he was trespassing, Florida law gives the any person the right to use non-deadly force to prevent or end a person trespassing on the land of third party if he has the legal duty to protect; In this case the home owner states to police they were physically fighting on her land at which constitutes a 'unlawful and forcible act' by the kid, which Florida Law requires before deadly force can be used. Legally speaking where he stopped the kid is irrelavent, it's where the deadly force was used, which from all that can established at this point, was where the kid had no legal right to be.

Wow, I can't believe we live among people like these. May this guy rot in prison.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215575]I don't get how that nullifies my argument, by the time the kid got shot he was trespassing, Florida law gives the any person the right to use non-deadly force to prevent or end a person trespassing on the land of third party if he has the legal duty to protect; In this case the home owner states to police they were physically fighting on her land at which constitutes a 'unlawful and forcible act' by the kid, which Florida Law requires before deadly force can be used. Legally speaking where he stopped the kid is irrelavent, it's where the deadly force was used, which from all that can established at this point, was where the kid had no legal right to be.[/QUOTE] He wasnt killed on someone's property, look at my post above. All of the back yards in the area are fenced/hedged off and he was shot on public pathway/grass. It looks to me like they had a fight, rolled around on the floor a bit, then when they were separated Zimmerman was seeing red, pulled his gun out and shot the kid. [quote]“To me what happened here is that a grown man got whooped by a 17-year-old, and he was not afraid, but angry,” said the woman who heard from inside her house.[/quote] Self defense is when you believe that there is a threat on your life. Getting into a fight with someone isn't exactly a threat on your life unless they pulled a weapon out on you, and especially not when they are shouting for help.

[QUOTE=Cushie;35215533]Well okay then, I cant help the way it was worded. Argument still stands. This is where he was killed: [img_thumb]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/19/article-0-1216F76D000005DC-115_634x353.jpg[/img_thumb] They were wrestling next to someone's back porch, but the porch is right next to the public path. A different shot of the area. He was killed on the path/grass. [img_thumb]http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/03/17/00/08/1n6ayq.St.56.jpg[/img_thumb] There are witness accounts everywhere that say point to there being a physical confrontation, but they must have been apart for Zimmerman to draw his gun and shoot the kid, which means it wasnt exactly self defense. There is also the fact that you can hear him crying and screaming on the 911 call right before he is shot, why would someone that is a threat to you be crying and screaming?[/QUOTE] Okay the pictures you shown somewhat undermined me since I just assumed it was unfenced yards and not bisected by a public path As for crying? Any evidence he was crying? because from what I hear he was yelling, and the caller said she 'thinks' he was calling for help, but on the tape it's inaudible. As for if I would feel threatened, it depends on the context, and I'm afraid to say in this case because we don't know all the facts. But in any event involving me, I would considering who has used unlawful force against me and is now yelling for help even more of a threat due to the fact I don't know who his 'help' is, since I don't want to wait for his possible back-up to show up to further ruin my day to decide rather or not he should be killed. That and the fact that unlike the asshole in this story I wouldn't be the one taking unilateral actions since I know the laws of my State. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Cushie;35215588]He wasnt killed on someone's property, look at my post above. All of the back yards in the area are fenced/hedged off and he was shot on public pathway/grass. It looks to me like they had a fight, rolled around on the floor a bit, then when they were separated Zimmerman was seeing red, pulled his gun out and shot the kid. Self defense is when you believe that there is a threat on your life. Getting into a fight with someone isn't exactly a threat on your life unless they pulled a weapon out on you, and especially not when they are shouting for help.[/QUOTE] I was writing my post before you posted that and didn't see it before I hit the post button. And thinking it over, with the pictures above and rereading the Florida statutes again, yeah this is questionable at best.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215706]Okay the pictures you shown somewhat undermined me since I just assumed it was unfenced yards and not bisected by a public path As for crying? Any evidence he was crying? because from what I hear he was yelling, and the caller said she 'thinks' he was calling for help, but on the tape it's inaudible. As for if I would feel threatened, it depends on the context, and I'm afraid to say in this case because we don't know all the facts. But in any event involving me, I would considering who has used unlawful force against me and is now yelling for help even more of a threat due to the fact I don't know who his 'help' is, since I don't want to wait for his possible back-up to show up to further ruin my day to decide rather or not he should be killed. That and the fact that unlike the asshole in this story I wouldn't be the one taking unilateral actions since I know the laws of my State. [editline]20th March 2012[/editline] I was writing my post before you posted that and didn't see it before I hit the post button. And thinking it over, with the pictures above and rereading the Florida statutes again, yeah this is questionable at best.[/QUOTE] stereotypically, im pretty sure if someone was pointing a gun at me... id want help.

[QUOTE=Cushie;35215322]Yeah it isnt law to obey them, but when you arent part of the emergency services and someone from the emergency services tells you that they dont need you to do that, its generally a good idea to listen. Otherwise stuff like this happens. The guy isnt a cop, they told him to stand by until the police got there and not follow the kid, but he decided he wanted to try and be a hero by ignoring that and going after them anyway then some kid ends up dead. It is possible that he suffered 'temporary autism', which is a possible cause for these crazy incidents where unarmed people get shot for little to no reason. When some people become extremely stressed and their body is surging with adrenaline, they lose the ability to read people's faces, emotions, body language etc which is why they end up shooting innocent people who have surrendered, like those incidents where cops have chased people down who are speeding then when the people eventually give up and surrender, they get riddled with bullets anyway because the cops are so stressed and full of adrenaline that they cant think.[/QUOTE] While I agree that he should have listened and not followed the teen, I only rated disagree because of one thing. Dispatchers are not there on scene. Sometimes their advice is useful and other times it is not. They are sitting in a comfortable building while you are the one 'on the field' and 'in the moment'. All they have is what they can hear and what you are telling them. I have heard countless 911 calls where someone is breaking into someone's home and the caller states they are going to get a gun - and the dispatcher tells them no. That, in my opinion, is stupid advice and I hear it a lot. Many of these people who did grab their firearm and shot the intruder as the intruder charged into the room they were holed up in ended up saving their lives...and if they had not grabbed that firearm and listened to the dispatcher they could have potentially ended up dead. Remember - when seconds count - help is minutes away. If you feel you need to take action and it is with in the realm of common sense. (IE - Not like this guy.) and goes against what the dispatcher is saying, I am all for that as long as it is, like I said, common sense and a legal response to your situation. This was just the case of some cop-wannabe who tried to detain the kid and the kid probably told him to shove it and resisted him. Mr. Tough guy felt threatened so he shot the kid. I would have understood if the circumstances are different, but someone just casually walking around should not be approached by the caller. If he truly felt the guy was weird, he should have just called it in and followed at a safe distance until an officer arrived. Hopefully the light gets on this and we see some justice.

[QUOTE=Broseph_;35215706]But in any event involving me, I would considering who has used unlawful force against me and is now yelling for help even more of a threat due to the fact I don't know who his 'help' is, since I don't want to wait for his possible back-up to show up to further ruin my day to decide rather or not he should be killed.[/QUOTE] If he was calling for help from people he knew he would use their name as that would get their attention faster. You sound like you are trying to justify the killing of this poor kid.