Oneirogens - Dream every night with legal cheap stuff! - General

----- [highlight]Want to post your trippy dreams?[/highlight] Put them [thread=1358360]here[/thread]. Hey, this is Elecbullet with a thread about my favorite classification of drug - and one that's out of the spotlight so you might not have heard of it. The oneirogens! [B][U]What are they?[/U][/B] Oneirogens are substances (or one might include practices) which produce or enhance dream-like states of consciousness. This definition says nothing about whether they get you "high" or not. They [I]may[/I] or [I]may not[/I] have intoxicating effects. The definition simply means that, in most cases, you consume the oneirogen, go to bed as you usually would, and experience many dreams. For a few months, I have been smoking a cigarette of Calea zacatechichi (recently mixed with Entada rheedii) almost every night before bed. The results? [highlight]I enjoy from one to in excess of five vivid dreams, [I]every[/I] night,[/highlight] practically guaranteed. Check the post-your-dreams thread for proof. A link is at the top of the page. One may even produce an increase in [B]lucid dreams[/B], which are dreams in which the dreamer becomes aware of his dreaming status and takes control: you can do anything! [B][U]Where can I get them?[/U][/B] One of the best parts about oneirogens is that they tend to be [I]legal[/I]. And because of that, they tend to be [I]cheap.[/I] I can get an ounce of Calea zacatechichi for eight dollars (before shipping). Many of these products can be straight up bought off of Amazon. Less common ones may be found at a variety of websites for psychonauts seeking legal, natural substances to experiment with: search Google for "shaman", "botanical", "ethnobotanical". [url]http://bouncingbearbotanicals.com/[/url] is an excellent retailer I've used several times. Because they're legal, I don't think there should be an issue with source sharing. [B][U]What should I look for?[/U][/B] There's a few. I'll try to document what I have experience with. If you try a different substance, or feel you can build on what I've posted, feel free to post your experience and I'll put it here. [quote=Calea Zacatechichi] [B]What is it?[/B] Calea is a legal Mexican plant, commonly sold as dried leaves. It is one of the best known oneirogens. One can roll a cigarette or make tea. Natives have done so for a long time. They'd also place leaves under their pillow... but that doesn't sound totally realistic. [img]http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/calea-zacatechichi-leaves.jpg[/img] I might say that it doesn't get you high. However I have noticed very minor intoxicating effects once or twice when using this substance, primarily early on, a long time ago. Don't buy it expecting to get fucked up. [B]AKA[/B] Calea ternifolia, Dream herb, Leaf of God, Bitter grass [B]The good:[/B] @ Cheap - $8 a giant ounce on [url=http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/dream-herb-p-100.html]Bouncing Bear[/url] @ Legal - pretty much everywhere but Poland @ Effective - This was my first oneirogen and what got me hooked on the substances. @ Well known - one of the most common oneirogens. The benchmark for comparisons of lesser known ones. @ Easy to use - just smoke it brah [B]The bad:[/B] @ Tastes like [I]shit.[/I] A name for this plant is "Bitter grass", and they mean it. It will leave a nasty taste on your lips if you smoke it. It will leave a bad taste in your mouth if you hold the smoke there (as one might a tobacco cigarette). [B]God held you if you drink the tea.[/B] I clarify that the smoke is not what I'd consider [I]harsh[/I], that is, it won't irritate your lungs and make you cough like tobacco. It is just kinda nasty is all. @ Smells bad. People will complain that you stink after smoking it. People will know you have been smoking something. They'll know it's not tobacco, but if they're not very familiar with the smell of weed, they may guess you are smoking weed. [/quote] [quote=Entada rheedii] [B]What is it?[/B] Entada rheedii is an enormous African nut. It's known to fall in the sea and float all around the oceans of the Old World. If you open the extremely hard outer shell (expect to use a hammer), the inner flesh of the nut can be ground and smoked. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Entada_rheedii_seed.jpg/320px-Entada_rheedii_seed.jpg[/img] [B]The good[/B] @ Very effective. A few days after beginning to use it, my dreams (already intense due to Calea) became much more so. @ Legal. Can't find any claims of legislation against it anywhere. @ Cheap. That is, if you know where to look. For this one, I would bypass entheogen websites, because there seem to be much better deals on Ebay. I bought one seed for $4 from BouncingBear (note the seeds are tremendous, though!) and [I]ten[/I] for $11 from [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Entada-rheedii-African-Dream-herb-5-10-25-seeds-for-vivid-or-lucid-dreams-/251236026237?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160]this vendor[/url]. [B]The bad:[/B] @ Not smokable by itself. It's a nut! If you intend to smoke it, you'll have to grind it and mix [I]a small bit[/I] of Entada with a more smokable plant such as Calea, tobacco, or whatever other plant. @ Tastes gross. Seems to add a nasty kind of taste to any cigarette. [B]Do not, for the love of God, chew it.[/B] The tiniest piece had me nearly vomiting. [/quote] [QUOTE=Mr._N;44538700][quote=Galantamine][B]What is it?[/B] Galantamine is an alkaloid extracted from some flower species such as Galanthus caucasicus (Caucasian snowdrop, Voronov's snowdrop), Galanthus woronowii (Amaryllidaceae) and related genera like Narcissus (daffodil), Leucojum (snowflake), and Lycoris including Lycoris radiata (Red Spider Lily). It is mainly known as a prescribed or over-the-counter supplement that helps relieve the symptoms of Alzheimer's and dementia, but has also come to light as an effective oneirogen. It works by inhibiting the breakdown of acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter known to mediate dreaming. [t]http://www.apollogenerics.com/images/Galantamine.png[/t] [B]The good:[/B] @ It is a legal supplement, which you can get off Amazon for example. @ One of the more powerful oneirogens, in my experience. It lengthens the REM stage of a sleep cycle, and makes dreams detailed, vivid and easy to remember. It should be taken in the middle of the night after 3 sleep cyles, or 4 and a half hours into the night. @ Extremely easy to take - it comes in pill-form. No need to bother with grinding, brewing, rolling, or smoking. @ Apparently good for memory, since they do prescribe it to Alzheimer's patients. [B]The bad:[/B] @ Fucking expensive. I had some gift cards to spend on Amazon and they were on sale when I got them, but the regular prices should speak for themselves. @ You can develop a tolerance, which they call become desensitized, to the stuff so you shouldn't take it every night. I've been taking it every weekend and I still feel the effects into the next week so it's fine. @ Apparently there are side effects, but only for doses prescribed for Alzheimer's patients. Oneironauts usually take a fairly low dose (4-8 mg a night) compared to the prescribed doses(~24 mg, several times a day). I personally haven't felt any of them but they include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia (weight loss), headache, abdominal pain, fatigue, slow heart rate, depression, sleepiness and fainting. Of course you should do your research.[/QUOTE][/quote] [quote=Mugwort] [B]What is it?[/B] Mugwort is a common name for several species of plant, the most common being [I]Artemisia vulgaris[/I]. It's said to be a potent oneirogen, known for making dreams easy to remember (some contrast this with Calea, which is known for making them vivid). [img]http://www.breworganic.com/ProductImages/ingredients/brewing-herbs/mugwort.jpg[/img] [B]The good:[/B] @ Cheeeeeeeeeeeeap. Cheaper than Calea. 1/4 pound is $5 at [url=http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/mugwort-p-415.html]BBB[/url]. @ Seems effective! It's known for making dreams easier to remember (which might contrast with Calea, which serves to make them more vivid). @ Legal pretty much everywhere except small restrictions in Louisiana of USA. [B]The bad:[/B] @ Difficult to roll into a cigarette. The stuff came to me as a sort of light, compressible, fibrous cotton. It totally, absolutely resists grinding and will stay in the first chamber of any grinder. [B]If you want to roll a cigarette, I strongly recommend you buy a rolling machine[/B] - $4 at a gas station and you're rolling perfect Mugwort cigarettes. No filter needed, it holds together pretty well. @ Smoke is hot and may irritate eyes or nose. [B]The neutral:[/B] @ Smoke taste is hard to define... It's... [I]neutral grassy.[/i] Not bitter like Calea, but not tasty at all. [/quote] [quote=Alepidea amatymbica] [B]What is it?[/B] Alepidea amatymbica is an African [B]root[/B] (that's new, init!) which is supposed to have oneirogenic properties. When the ground root is smoked, iIt also produces a small cannabis-like high! [img]http://www.thebotanicalsource.com/images/Ikhathazo%20milled.jpg[/img] I have experimented with this but not enough to report any influences on dreams, but I have heard very good things about it, some saying it's better than classic Calea. [B]The good:[/B] @ Tastes good! A pleasant, sourish earthy smoke. @ Gets you quasi high. One fellow described it as better than weed... I can't agree, but I have noticed marked relaxing effects. They didn't last terrifically long but quite interesting. @ Unique smell. After I smoked it, one person described my residual odor as if I'd been near a campfire. Not unpleasant. @ Conceals more incriminating smells: People have mixed it with less-than-legal plants in order to mask that odor with a pleasant earthy smell. YMMV. [B]The bad:[/B] @ Deceptively expensive. One ounce costs $20 on [url=http://www.bouncingbearbotanicals.com/alepidea-amatymbica-p-756.html#.UwuxpNuDBhE]BouncingBear[/url]. However, by nature of being a root, it is denser than any plant leaf, and you might be disappointed by the quantity you receive and end up running out quickly. @ Not as useful as calea. I got the feeling that I was having very extensive dreams every night, but immediately forgetting them. [B]The neutral:[/B] @ Burns very slowly! @ Ground Alepidea looks like dirt and may clog cigarettes, providing poor airflow. [/quote] Wikipedia's list is very broad: [quote] @ [B]Artemisia vulgaris[/B] (mugwort) @ [B]Calea zacatechichi[/B] (the "dream herb") @ [B]Entada rheedii[/B] ("African dream herb") @ [B]Dimethyltryptamine[/B] ("Ayahuasca") Smoked and oral DMT preparations can trigger intensely vivid and surreal spiritually charged dream states. @ [B]Galantamine[/B] @ [B]Harmaline[/B] (found in Peganum harmala) @ [B]ibogaine[/B] (found in Tabernanthe iboga) @ [B]salvinorin A[/B] (found in Salvia divinorum)[1] @ [B]Silene undulata[/B] ("African dream root") @ [B]Muscimol[/B] (found in "Amanita muscaria" ) @ [B][url=1257852]Dextromethorphan[/url][/B] (the main ingredient in many cough syrups)[2] a large variety of [B]Datura[/B] plants and Atropa belladonna can produce microsleep and intense hypnagogic imagery. [highlight]DATURA IS SHIT AND DANGEROUS, THINK TWICE[/highlight] @ [B][url=1278105]Diphenhydramine[/url][/B] "Benadryl" can invoke an intense hypnagogic REM-like microsleep often indifferentiable from reality[3] Deliriants can therefore be considered to trigger an oneirogenic state by blocking acetylcholine and suppressing cholinergic system activity. @ [B]Opium[/B] and its derivatives can result in euphoric dream-like states and microsleep, known colloquially as "nodding". These are usually more realistic and more pleasure based, however they still invoke dream like states. @ [B]Amphetamine[/B] and other stimulants can create psychotic episodes which may be defined as bursts of dream activity erupting spontaneously into waking states, this is not due to the substance itself but rather a result of the prolonged suppression of cholinergic activity and REM sleep due to amphetamine or stimulant abuse.[4] @ [B]Nutmeg[/B] In large amounts due to the chemicals myristicin and elemicin produce's a strong drunken stuporific dreamlike state [highlight]NUTMEG IS SHIT AND DANGEROUS, THINK TWICE[/highlight] [/quote] Know that the most dreams will occur if you go to sleep at night, wake up in the morning and return to bed after a short few hours for a nap. Calea or no calea, entada or no entada, this is a great strategy. Try keeping a dream journal so you can look back and remember your dreams later on! [highlight]ALWAYS VERIFY LEGALITY OF SUBSTANCES IN YOUR REGION. Always do your own research on effects.[/highlight]

i can feel that this is fucking awesome, but smells like shit and tastes the same i have to try :v:

These all sound very interesting, I'll definitely try it in the summer when I have some more spare time. Good thread.

I found the Calea smoke too harsh for me, so I went with the tea route. It's quite disgusting, but I found a way, for me, to power through it. I always brewed a mug's worth of tea and chilled it in the fridge for few hours. Your taste buds are numbed with cold beverages, so it was easy to chug all the way through. I then chased it with a teaspoon of honey in my mouth to cover up the lingering bitterness.

Hmm, I dunno if "harsh" is the right word. Calea won't make you cough (unless you super mega hit it). Tobacco and weed both have the potential to send you into coughing fits. Of course, tobacco and weed taste good but calea tastes like bitter grass. I think there's "harsh" and "just plain kinda gross".

The second I saw the title lucid dreaming was the first thought I had. Dream recall is a huge issue for me, would you recommend anything legal in the UK? or illegal and easy to access :v:

You should point out that nobody should ever try Datura or Nutmeg unless they're specifically looking for a bad experience. [editline]24th February 2014[/editline] Otherwise great thread

You don't need to do a full dose of datura, just a couple of seeds before bed.

Has anyone here personally smoked Alepidea amatymbica? Id like to hear what you thought of it :P Cheers, Widgeon

I've found nootropics can have interesting effects on dreams (some can keep you up though). [url]http://nootropicsdepot.com[/url] (all legal) Not the cheapest source, but the cheapest I've found with good quality with a decent selection

[QUOTE=Widgeon;44036673]Has anyone here personally smoked Alepidea amatymbica? Id like to hear what you thought of it :P Cheers, Widgeon[/QUOTE] Well I have. My experiences were described in the OP. The problem is I haven't used it enough to give any information about dream enhancement. All I can definitively tell you I have listed above.

Just ordered an ounce. Can't wait!

[QUOTE=geogzm;44035667]The second I saw the title lucid dreaming was the first thought I had. Dream recall is a huge issue for me, would you recommend anything legal in the UK? or illegal and easy to access :v:[/QUOTE] Oneirogens don't often go illegal unless they definitively intoxicate you on the side. Calea zacatechichi is an excellent start for anyone (except Polacks, because it is illegal there). Fairly cheap and I swear by it. Search Google for "UK Ethnobotanicals" and there are a host of sites, and Calea is common enough that any site will have it. I recommend you smoke it for a few days straight for definitive effects. Can you roll a joint? And will you be able to deal with people saying you stink?

*wonders if it would work in a bong*

[QUOTE=Appellation;44037346]*wonders if it would work in a bong*[/QUOTE] Humm. Tobacco will send you into coughing fits, as will cannabis. Calea and the other ones I described do not have that effect. You simply don't cough smoking calea (unless you super mega rip it). At worst the smoke is bitter or gross. I'm sure it would work in a bong, however the necessity may not be so severe.

OP would you recommend smoking this out of a bong/bowl or mixing it with weed in a spliff?

People continually refer to "this" and "it" without specifying which oneirogen they are referring to. I am going to assume Calea zacatechichi. As I said earlier, the cooling sensation of a bong may not be necessary because the smoke is tolerable if slightly gross. The downside of using a spliff has historically been that some substance is wasted by the continual burn. Since calea is so cheap, this may not be a problem and 99% of the calea I've smoked has been in cigarette form. In fact if you're mixing it with weed it may reduce the monetary damage of wasted weed (this is why some people add tobacco to joints: so any continuous burn is mostly cheap tobacco). It's totally preference. My personal biggest issue with calea is that my roommate hates when I smell like it. I dunno if a bong would do anything about that.

I was indeed talking about cale zacatechichi, sorry for not being specific. I ordered an ounce of it just now, I can't wait to get it and try it out. I'll try out various methods of smoking it and ingesting it to see what works best for me.

Calea leaves are dry and brittle and will not be good for cigarette rolling unless properly ground, I will add.

Another one I keep hearing about is African dream root, silene capensis. You grind it, put it in water, and whip it into a foam to eat in the morning.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;44037752]Calea leaves are dry and brittle and will not be good for cigarette rolling unless properly ground, I will add.[/QUOTE] I have just a regular metal herb grinder - will that work?

For the first few weeks with Calea I had to use a really shitty plastic grinder and it didn't grind it small enough to be rolled extremely well. You don't need an extremely good grinder but I think it might be possible for a grinder to be too shit for the purpose. [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] You'll probably be fine, if it doesn't work perfectly use your stoner engineering skills and find a way. [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] Shiiiiit! I had the most vivid lucid dream I've ever had in my life last night. Of course I spent the whole time looking for girls to pork but it was amazing!

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;44037306]Oneirogens don't often go illegal unless they definitively intoxicate you on the side. Calea zacatechichi is an excellent start for anyone (except Polacks, because it is illegal there). Fairly cheap and I swear by it. Search Google for "UK Ethnobotanicals" and there are a host of sites, and Calea is common enough that any site will have it. I recommend you smoke it for a few days straight for definitive effects. Can you roll a joint? And will you be able to deal with people saying you stink?[/QUOTE] I don't wanna smell too bad, and I don't often have rolling papers on hand. Anything that could be thrown in to a pipe bowl?

me and a few friends did loads of nutmeg before school a few years back. the whole day was a surreal mess of wavey hallucionations intertwined with human interaction and very awkward & fucked social interactions. would recommend but would never ever do it again. apparently we came close to the lethal dose too aha fuck

[QUOTE=geogzm;44043324]I don't wanna smell too bad, and I don't often have rolling papers on hand. Anything that could be thrown in to a pipe bowl?[/QUOTE] Humm, I honestly don't know if Calea is excessively stinky compared to other herbs, or if it's just that I use it all the time. Though I have smoked it from a bowl several times without issues. Entada works well too, I feel, but you have to mix it with something to smoke it. Alepidea I can't make claims on dream effectiveness.

So how much should I smoke before bed each night? A single joint? A small bowl from my pipe?

I make an effort to smoke one Calea-Entada cigarette every day at least. It does not have to be immediately before bed (the effects seem to last for a few days anyway) but it can't hurt.

You may want to use it a few days in a row for definite effects.

would vaporizing be an option with things like this, or do you have to smoke to get the full effect? "this" refers to both Calea and Entada.

Does calea affect your sleep at all? Like, when you wake up, do you feel any different than you normally would?