Putin declares Russian troop deaths in peacetime a state secret - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32913929[/url] [quote]Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree to make losses of Russian troops in peacetime a secret. The amendment bans information about the deaths of Russian forces "during special operations" in peacetime. The Kremlin has consistently denied sending regular troops and armour to help rebels in eastern Ukraine. But a new report from the US says Russia has been using training camps near the border as "launching points of Russia's war in Ukraine".[/quote]

Alright, a little bit of help with source then? No official kremlin site is in the link if it's a signed document by president there gotta be some traces.

[url]http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001201505280001?index=0&rangeSize=1[/url] [editline]28th May 2015[/editline] Linked from the Guardian [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/28/vladimir-putin-declares-all-russian-military-deaths-state-secrets[/url]

Absolutely nothing to hide

[QUOTE=smurfy;47825793][url]http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/Document/View/0001201505280001?index=0&rangeSize=1[/url] [editline]28th May 2015[/editline] Linked from the Guardian [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/28/vladimir-putin-declares-all-russian-military-deaths-state-secrets[/url][/QUOTE] Alright, thanks! I guess now they are going to use this to pressure on few opposition blocks that provide information, or atleast claim to be providing, regarding Russian soldiers being dead [B]anywhere[/B] but normal duty. The "unoffical" support on DNR and LNR won't change for an inch, since it's one thing when Kremlin is accused of sending troops. and other is a disclosure of Kremlin documents that this order prevents. How many soldiers that voluntered to DNR and LNR armies or "voluntereed" in any other way are listed in kremlin docs as "special operation forces"? yep, none.

Super realistic training exercises

[QUOTE=Complifused;47825857]Super realistic training exercises[/QUOTE] They are crack training in accidently entering Ukraine and killing Ukraine troops.

Totally not suspicious.

wait, ya people really thinked that Kremlin would keep a track of soldiers that are dead in secret operations or undercover/without designation, and be totally ok with disclosure of numbers that had fallen? [I]-Soo um yesterday about 60 various secret operatives died in various ways. -Where? -Ya know, various places mmkay?[/I] How other countries are dealing with such issue? Legitimately curious.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47825930]wait, ya people really thinked that Kremlin would keep a track of soldiers that are dead in secret operations or undercover/without designation, and be totally ok with disclosure of numbers that had fallen? [I]-Soo um yesterday about 60 various secret operatives died in various ways. -Where? -Ya know, various places mmkay?[/I] How other countries are dealing with such issue? Legitimately curious.[/QUOTE] The point is that it's being done [i]now[/i], amid allegations of clandestine military intervention.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47825930]wait, ya people really thinked that Kremlin would keep a track of soldiers that are dead in secret operations or undercover/without designation, and be totally ok with disclosure of numbers that had fallen? [I]-Soo um yesterday about 60 various secret operatives died in various ways. -Where? -Ya know, various places mmkay?[/I] How other countries are dealing with such issue? Legitimately curious.[/QUOTE] Depends what constitutes special operations, but hundreds of dead american soldiers would be noticable and there would be questions at least from the legislators

[QUOTE=Explosions;47826014]The point is that it's being done [i]now[/i], amid allegations of clandestine military intervention.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but again, only question is why that did not happen sooner. Leak of such info at any times without persecution would be a huge fuck up on it's own accord.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47826080]Yeah, but again, only question is why that did not happen sooner. Leak of such info at any times without persecution would be a huge fuck up on it's own accord.[/QUOTE] What is the definition for secret operation in Russia?

[QUOTE=Explosions;47825839]Absolutely nothing to hide[/QUOTE] Every country has something to hide. Russia is no exception.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47826080]Yeah, but again, only question is why that did not happen sooner. Leak of such info at any times without persecution would be a huge fuck up on it's own accord.[/QUOTE] [quote=XD] What is the definition for secret operation in Russia? [/quote] I am curious how you'd respond to this. "Secret" is an incredibly broad definition, and frankly, while the deaths of servicemen on clandestine operations is something we consider to be "secret" it seems odd that you would consider a scenario where have [I]lots[/I] of dead Russian servicemen, apparently dying in large operations as if there were heavy sustained combat, to be "secret," particularly when the only operation Russia seems to be conducting at the moment is one that Russia has been doing everything to deny that it is involved in. I don't think you can deny that not only is there potential for this legislation to be abused, but that it appears to have been created [I]only[/I] to be abused.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47830262]I am curious how you'd respond to this. "Secret" is an incredibly broad definition, and frankly, while the deaths of servicemen on clandestine operations is something we consider to be "secret" it seems odd that you would consider a scenario where have [I]lots[/I] of dead Russian servicemen, apparently dying in large operations as if there were heavy sustained combat, to be "secret," particularly when the only operation Russia seems to be conducting at the moment is one that Russia has been doing everything to deny that it is involved in. I don't think you can deny that not only is there potential for this legislation to be abused, but that it appears to have been created [I]only[/I] to be abused.[/QUOTE] Um. If you'd read my second post you'd see me providing example how this law def would be abused.

[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47830262]I am curious how you'd respond to this. "Secret" is an incredibly broad definition, and frankly, while the deaths of servicemen on clandestine operations is something we consider to be "secret" it seems odd that you would consider a scenario where have [I]lots[/I] of dead Russian servicemen, apparently dying in large operations as if there were heavy sustained combat, to be "secret," particularly when the only operation Russia seems to be conducting at the moment is one that Russia has been doing everything to deny that it is involved in. [/QUOTE] Still this may easily have nothing to do with the mess in Ukraine. I mean, they have been denying they're involved there since the very beginning, so what's the point of making these losses secret, if they are already secret? The fact that it's essentially an open secret doesn't change much. My bet is the purpose of this decree is to make secret losses in actual undercover\black operations with small number of special forces involved.

Secret Ops only? I'm really afraid this will be used to cover up deaths of conscripts not even on any sort of operations, simply from accidents and/or hazing.

They posted these news on our local newsweb and the title picture they used for the article was [img]http://i.imgur.com/qd8hAhe.jpg[/img] for a second I thought I was on Sensationalist Headlines.

[QUOTE=maxumym;47830571]Secret Ops only? I'm really afraid this will be used to cover up deaths of conscripts not even on any sort of operations, simply from accidents and/or hazing.[/QUOTE] The act makes [b]any[/b] sort of military losses a state secret. Accidents, hazing, special operations, illegal military activity in neighboring countries... It's to cover up the involvement in Ukraine, plain and simple, no point denying that. That's Afghanistan all over again. Your family member gets sent to "military exercises" or what have you, and then you receive a box and a letter saying "soz lol, he somehow managed to die on duty" with no further information about anything. "Thanks for your service, peasant".

[QUOTE=karimatrix;47825852] How many soldiers that voluntered to DNR and LNR armies or "voluntereed" in any other way are listed in kremlin docs as "special operation forces"? yep, none.[/QUOTE] Can you expand on this? I mean if they say they volunteers then obv they will be listed as such, but this law also makes secret the cause of THEIR deaths

karimatrix, do you have like a neural implant that just overloads your motor skills and forces you to find every thread that the term "Russia" is used in?

[QUOTE=ZakkShock;47831103]karimatrix, do you have like a neural implant that just overloads your motor skills and forces you to find every thread that the term "Russia" is used in?[/QUOTE] Shh, that's a state secret!