• It's good to be anti-Islam
    231 replies, posted
[video=youtube;jIaGWURONRU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIaGWURONRU[/video]
I couldn't find anything to disagree on really.
"If we take the witch-hunting, burning heretics, and all the bad things out of christianity, there will be nothing left in it!" - this guy 700 years ago Seriously, things like jew-killing and women abuse are'nt something that muslims are told to do by the Quran, it's all in the culture itself. Religion is of little to no significance here. Even if the middle east was christian, things would be exactly the same. Islam isn't what it is today becouse Mahomet fucked up, it's because of the extremism and poverty of the region where it's most popular in.
[QUOTE=WhyNott;44685818]"If we take the witch-hunting, burning heretics, and all the bad things out of christianity, there will be nothing left in it!" - this guy 700 years ago Seriously, things like jew-killing and women abuse are'nt something that muslims are told to do by the Quran, it's all in the culture itself. Religion is of little to no significance here. Even if the middle east was christian, things would be exactly the same. Islam isn't what it is today becouse Mahomet fucked up, it's because of the extremism and poverty of the region where it's most popular in.[/QUOTE] I KINDA see what you're trying to say, in that Christianity is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad as Islam when you examine it, and yet Western Civilization predominately features Christians who don't stone people and all that. That's basically because, for how it's backslid, the revolution of secular government and reasoned ethics has dragged Christianity kicking and screaming into the realm of societal progress, to the point that most Western Christians don't use the Bible as a source for their morality. Modern values are intensely at odds with those of the Bible, but believers don't really take the Bible so seriously. They've been weened off it to the point that they believe the local cultural agreements on what right and wrong are, and when they're shown something barbaric in the Bible, they make excuses for why it's not as bad as it looks to soften the blow. Whereas, in the Muslim world, they KNOW about the barbaric things, but they DO use the Quran as a source for their morality. And if it says it in the Quran, it's moral. It's moral, because God says so, and that's the end of the argument. They don't feel trepidation or shame for the evil shit in their book, and revel in it because Allah sanctifies it. Neither religion is any damn good, or of any damn use in the 21st century, but one is more DIRECTLY harmful, while the other just kinda creeps around in the subconscious of its people, still doing plenty of harm, but not being as obvious to its progressively minded people. I leave it to you as to which is worse.
[QUOTE=WhyNott;44685818]"If we take the witch-hunting, burning heretics, and all the bad things out of christianity, there will be nothing left in it!" - this guy 700 years ago Seriously, things like jew-killing and women abuse are'nt something that muslims are told to do by the Quran, it's all in the culture itself. Religion is of little to no significance here. Even if the middle east was christian, things would be exactly the same. Islam isn't what it is today becouse Mahomet fucked up, it's because of the extremism and poverty of the region where it's most popular in.[/QUOTE] Well you can say all of that, but would following Islam be really a good idea? Islam is an aggressive expansionary religion, and while it is not the cause of all of the problems in the world, it does contribute to them.
I thought about posting this but I thought that FP would hate Pat Condell because he has a habit of bashing the Left and I thought I'd get dumbs. Personally I'm happy that someone did post him here because he says stuff about Islam that very few people in this country address in a grown-up way. In this country there's a huge stigma about criticising Islam, and even mentioning half the things that he said in public would get you arrested for hate speech despite the fact that it's true.
It's no coincidence the middle east is one of the most war-torn areas of the world.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44686117]Islam is an aggressive expansionary religion, and while it is not the cause of all of the problems in the world, it does contribute to them.[/QUOTE] Am I the only one that also gets this vibe about the abrahamic religions in general? At least from what I've learned of history christianity hasn't helped much either as well(see: the crusades, expansion into China, used as a tool in the European colonization of Africa, etc).
[QUOTE=Levithan;44686162]Am I the only one that also gets this vibe about the abrahamic religions in general? At least from what I've learned of history christianity hasn't helped much either as well(see: the crusades, expansion into China, used as a tool in the European colonization of Africa, etc).[/QUOTE] Well I'm opposed to it too. The spread of christianity in Europe was actually considerably peaceful though, considering that for about four centuries adherents of it were persecuted, and that after the fall of Rome, most missionary activity (such as in Britannia and Scandinavia) was done by lone missionaries up until the high middle ages.
[QUOTE=Levithan;44686162]Am I the only one that also gets this vibe about the abrahamic religions in general? At least from what I've learned of history christianity hasn't helped much either as well(see: the crusades, expansion into China, used as a tool in the European colonization of Africa, etc).[/QUOTE] Most religions are guilty of inhumane crap but we're talking about now. And right now Islam is the most inhumane one that is for some strange reason very accepted and pampered religion. See England. Christianity does jack shit compared to Islam now. Where christians burned witches during medieval times, islamists stone people this very moment.
[QUOTE=J-Dude;44686081]I KINDA see what you're trying to say, in that Christianity is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad as Islam when you examine it, and yet Western Civilization predominately features Christians who don't stone people and all that. That's basically because, for how it's backslid, the revolution of secular government and reasoned ethics has dragged Christianity kicking and screaming into the realm of societal progress, to the point that most Western Christians don't use the Bible as a source for their morality. Modern values are intensely at odds with those of the Bible, but believers don't really take the Bible so seriously. They've been weened off it to the point that they believe the local cultural agreements on what right and wrong are, and when they're shown something barbaric in the Bible, they make excuses for why it's not as bad as it looks to soften the blow. Whereas, in the Muslim world, they KNOW about the barbaric things, but they DO use the Quran as a source for their morality. And if it says it in the Quran, it's moral. It's moral, because God says so, and that's the end of the argument. They don't feel trepidation or shame for the evil shit in their book, and revel in it because Allah sanctifies it. Neither religion is any damn good, or of any damn use in the 21st century, but one is more DIRECTLY harmful, while the other just kinda creeps around in the subconscious of its people, still doing plenty of harm, but not being as obvious to its progressively minded people. I leave it to you as to which is worse.[/QUOTE] How has Western society dragged Christianity kicking and screaming? Also I should think that a religion that specifically tells its followers to work within the laws given by their respective governments is of much more use than a religion that pushes its own idea of government.
lol [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
I don't really think that Islam is more "dangerous" or "agressive" then any other religion. There are extremists in every religion, and I think that the fact there is an unusual quantity of those in muslim countries have more to do with the problems of the countries themselves, rather then the religion in question. Example: there are christian countries in africa where witch hunting (like, with burning people alive and shit) is still a thing even today.
Buddhists are committing ethnic cleansing in Burma right this moment, but i'm not seeing the BNP freaking out about them ruining our culture or whatever. i certainly don't disagree that Islam has a lot of problems but there's a pretty hardcore double standard involved when you specify with them
[QUOTE=Cone;44686446]Buddhists are committing ethnic cleansing in Burma right this moment, but i'm not seeing the BNP freaking out about them ruining our culture or whatever. i certainly don't disagree that Islam has a lot of problems but there's a pretty hardcore double standard involved when you specify with them[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=WhyNott;44686320]I don't really think that Islam is more "dangerous" or "agressive" then any other religion. There are extremists in every religion, and I think that the fact there is an unusual quantity of those in muslim countries have more to do with the problems of the countries themselves, rather then the religion in question. Example: there are christian countries in africa where witch hunting (like, with burning people alive and shit) is still a thing even today.[/QUOTE] Neither of these affect the west though. Islam does.
People seem to forget that in the middle ages, the arabic societies (with Islam as its religion) were far more progressive than the european-christian world in terms of science, law and equality (for today standards it was still pretty shit but these were the middle ages). It doesn't have to do with the religion itself (The Bible has plenty of barbaric stuff in it too) but the people who use this religion for their own, terrible purposes. Western societies have had periods of terrible barbarism in the name of Christianity in the past, but we have grown out of them more or less. Do remember that Islam as a religion is around 6 centuries younger than Christianity. [editline]30th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;44686661]Neither of these affect the west though. Islam does.[/QUOTE] oh so it's religious violence and genocide are only really important when they affect the west.
[QUOTE=barttool;44686766]People seem to forget that in the middle ages, the arabic societies (with Islam as its religion) were far more progressive than the european-christian world in terms of science, law and equality (for today standards it was still pretty shit but these were the middle ages). It doesn't have to do with the religion itself (The Bible has plenty of barbaric stuff in it too) but the people who use this religion for their own, terrible purposes. Western societies have had periods of terrible barbarism in the name of Christianity in the past, but we have grown out of them more or less. Do remember that Islam as a religion is around 6 centuries younger than Christianity, more or less. [editline]30th April 2014[/editline] oh so it's religious violence and genocide are only really important when they affect the west.[/QUOTE] Thank you for wording everything I had in mind in a less boxfull way then I did. If only I spoke english better my posts would probably be less horrible
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44686661]Neither of these affect the west though. Islam does.[/QUOTE] Because it's only bad if it affects the West, right?
[QUOTE=Atlascore;44686809]No, psychopaths are committing an ethnic cleansing, Buddhism has nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] No, psychopaths committed the inquisition, Christianity has nothing to do with it No, psychopaths stone people in the middle east, Islam has nothing to do with it ?
[QUOTE=Atlascore;44686842]and kill anyone that refuses to[/QUOTE] what can you elaborate please
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44686661]Neither of these affect the west though. Islam does.[/QUOTE] i repeat again: ethnic cleansing. i would say that most Western countries are obligated to at least care about these kinds of things, and certainly to not pretend that they don't matter just cos they already got theirs. i mean i see people freaking out about Israel, calling it an apartheid state (which don't get me wrong is perfectly accurate), but why should that only be a valid criticism if it's arbitrarily deigned to matter to us in particular? ethnic cleansing is always relevant to the West, sadly not always necessarily in terms of us acting against it, but always at least in terms of us acknowledging it [editline]30th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;44686809]No, psychopaths are committing an ethnic cleansing, Buddhism has nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] my point exactly
[QUOTE=Atlascore;44686842]Both of those religions tell you to go out and convert everyone, and kill anyone that refuses to, Buddhism does not, they're not comparable, any Buddhist going around killing [I]anyone[/I] [B][I]is not an actual Buddhist.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] Isn't one of the ten commandments "Thou shall not kill" though? I could say then that by literal definition, anyone who kills isn't an actual christian..
I'd only take him seriously if he said the same about every Abrahamic religion because their scriptures have all the same shit. "Wow Islam is like this right now but Christianity is okay because it only [I]used[/I] to be like this." Like the timeframe in which progressives emerged and decided to turn a blind eye to the bad shit really matters, it's in the very foundation of your religion but "we're okay because we ignore God while pretending not to". Of course judging by the way this guy speaks of "progressives" he's probably be appalled at Christians moving away from this shit if he lived back then.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;44686978]I probably should've worded that post differently, regardless both Christianity and Islam are violent religions, and both were 100% supportive of things like the inquisition & crusades and stoning, comparing them to Buddhism is idiotic because Buddhism doesn't tell you to violently convert people or stone your neighbor because he sinned, nor does it tell you to go on an ethnic cleansing spree. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests"]Also I'd like to point out that this happened.[/URL][/QUOTE] yeah but my point is that you can't compare religions in an environment that enables war crimes and horrible atrocities. the fact that Buddhism says nothing on needing to commit ethnic cleansing just proves my point that the scripture is entirely irrelevant to what actually happens, especially in countries where the government falters badly and religious leaders would be able to easily manipulate their followers regardless of their scripture.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44686661]Neither of these affect the west though. Islam does.[/QUOTE] How much does Islam really affect the west? How much of this shit actually occurs there? I guarantee it's overreported. Get some trustworthy statistics before you handwave. I can do the sane same thing by pointing to abortion clinic bombings in America but you'd probably just say "oh well they're just crazies, not real Christians"
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44687099]How much does Islam really affect the west? How much of this shit actually occurs there? I guarantee it's overreported. Get some trustworthy statistics before you handwave. I can do the sane same thing by pointing to abortion clinic bombings in America but you'd probably just say "oh well they're just crazies, not real Christians"[/QUOTE] Oh don't get me wrong, Christianity is bad too.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44687133]Oh don't get me wrong, Christianity is bad too.[/QUOTE] Well, video man called the comparison insulting
[QUOTE=Atlascore;44686978]I probably should've worded that post differently, regardless both Christianity and Islam are violent religions, and both were 100% supportive of things like the inquisition & crusades and stoning, comparing them to Buddhism is idiotic because Buddhism doesn't tell you to violently convert people or stone your neighbor because he sinned, nor does it tell you to go on an ethnic cleansing spree. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests"]Also I'd like to point out that this happened.[/URL][/QUOTE] Okay then, please quote the verses in the Quran where it is specificaly is telling people to threaten people with stoning if they don't convert, and is not taken out of context in anyway.
[QUOTE=J-Dude;44686081]I KINDA see what you're trying to say, in that Christianity is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad as Islam when you examine it, and yet Western Civilization predominately features Christians who don't stone people and all that. That's basically because, for how it's backslid, the revolution of secular government and reasoned ethics has dragged Christianity kicking and screaming into the realm of societal progress, to the point that most Western Christians don't use the Bible as a source for their morality. Modern values are intensely at odds with those of the Bible, but believers don't really take the Bible so seriously. They've been weened off it to the point that they believe the local cultural agreements on what right and wrong are, and when they're shown something barbaric in the Bible, they make excuses for why it's not as bad as it looks to soften the blow. Whereas, in the Muslim world, they KNOW about the barbaric things, but they DO use the Quran as a source for their morality. And if it says it in the Quran, it's moral. It's moral, because God says so, and that's the end of the argument. They don't feel trepidation or shame for the evil shit in their book, and revel in it because Allah sanctifies it. Neither religion is any damn good, or of any damn use in the 21st century, but one is more DIRECTLY harmful, while the other just kinda creeps around in the subconscious of its people, still doing plenty of harm, but not being as obvious to its progressively minded people. I leave it to you as to which is worse.[/QUOTE] Nothing prevents Islam from taking the same route as Christianity. It doesn't make sense to talk about a "Muslim world" when there are infact Muslims living in the West (and likely elsewhere too) who do not use a literal interpretation of the Quran as their source of morality. While it's true that the book is viewed as the infallible word of God Muslims exist on a sliding scale just as Christians and not every single one of them view it as their right to impose their beliefs on the entire society around them. Just like with any religion your relation to Islam is personal, and this reflects to what degree you embrace the contents and teachings of the Quran.
hope you jackasses realize that the people that make Islam seem like it's a "violent" religion are nothing but an extremely vocal minority. [editline].[/editline] if we're talking out of our asses and think that minorities somhow represent the majority, then all christians are fag hating, jesus loving, republicans, black people are all pants sagging, rap loving, mongoloids, and X group is all Y and Z
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