Now, this is something I personally have pondered a few times. Is there really such thing as "human normality?" When I say that, I personally define it as the human conception of being normal, like talking about "normal" things, acting in a "normal" way, having "normal" hobbies, etc. The question is: does this normality really exist and dictative of the actions we all do or is it some sort of made up misconception we created about the way we act or should act?
"normal" is what society dictates to us. As far as our society is concerned, if you smoke or don't smoke you can still be normal. If you kill a man and then eat him though, you aren't normal, because society doesn't like that.
Because society can differ depending on your location, you probably can't find a true normal person.
Only if we're defining normal as "average" or something that doesn't significantly deviate from the average. To kill someone isn't a "normal" thing to do in that sense because it is radically different from what the average person in society would do.
This is of course just talking about what [b]is[/b] normal .. we don't have a clear way to get to what should or [b]"ought"[/b] to be "normal" just from knowing what [b]is[/b] normal.
Not sure about "normal," every human (and even many other animals) always have nuances.
Though I do think there is an "average" human, and that could double as "normal" at times.
There is an average human. Which constitutes as 'normal' in society.
And that's the debate, I can't see this going anywhere else really.
I like to think there are people who are human, and then there are those who are less human if human at all.
And by less human I don't mean someone disabled, but like a heinous bully/criminal.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;34269582]Is there really such thing as "human normality?" [/QUOTE]
Yes, just like there are cat normality or dog normality. There are usually behaviors that stay true for only a certain species.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;34269582]does this normality really exist and dictative of the actions we all do or is it some sort of made up misconception we created about the way we act or should act?[/QUOTE]
Normality does exist, Imagine a parallel world that's the exact same to ours except for in this world they're untouched by restrictions, people are literally free and can do what ever they want and have absolutely no obligations, no religion or laws to limit them. In this parallel world they don't even have television, the internet, magazines basically any sort of media that affects their expectations so they're completely neutral and unbiased and in this parallel world it would still be wrong to kill people or to rob people. I don't believe it's in our nature to do any of the sort.
Normal = No Diagnosable Mental Disorders or Illness
That's why we diagnose & treat things like bipolarity, schizophrenia, autism, etc to begin with. Patients' behavior deviate so far from the norm that it interferes with their ability to live. That is the line between a simple quirk (collecting Star Wars figurines) & mental illness (a house layered with trash four feet thick with only a narrow passage from entrance to bedroom).
& the thing about quirks is that everybody has them, so thus they can never be deemed 'not normal' on their own.
As has been stated, normality is, in large part, a social construct. In ancient Greece and Rome paedophilia and homosexuality were common and readily accepted, whereas in our modern western society these are frowned upon (and please don't take this out of context, I'm not comparing gays to paedos in any way).
Even within our society, each social group has different norms. My parents have always emphasised the importance of education, and whilst their jobs officially label them as working class, they have adopted middle class values. Conversely, a large number of my peers in secondary school couldn't have given less of a damn about education.
More readily noticeable is "fuk da police" attitude a large portion of society seems to have. I have no problem with the coppers and have never had a bad experience of them (the few times I've had a run in with them they've been polite and professional, and we all carried on quite happily), whereas, particularly in America it seems, the police can be a good deal less professional.
Given these differences even within a single society, and the conclusion that there really is very little that can be considered a universal normal, is there anything which can be considered an absolute normal? I would be tempted to say anything that agrees with our natural state of being should be considered normal, but then that would include killing our neighbours for their food if the shops ran out, and it's not necessary to shag every moving thing and produce boatloads of kids in this day and age.
I'd personally say bollocks to normality, it's dogmatic and inflexible. Just so long as our actions don't harm ourselves or others, we should do whatever we please.
No.
What is the point of debate threads like these? Everybody on Facepunch, and probably the majority of the world, agree on this issue and there isn't any room for debate.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as 'normal'. Every human being on Earth has their own beliefs, likes, looks, etc. 'Normal' is simply a setting on my washing machine.
[QUOTE=Marddox;34276655]Normality does exist, Imagine a parallel world that's the exact same to ours except for in this world they're untouched by restrictions, people are literally free and can do what ever they want and have absolutely no obligations, no religion or laws to limit them. In this parallel world they don't even have television, the internet, magazines basically any sort of media that affects their expectations so they're completely neutral and unbiased and in this parallel world it would still be wrong to kill people or to rob people. I don't believe it's in our nature to do any of the sort.[/QUOTE]
wait what the fuck
you're gonna have to back that shit up with some facts, because basically psychology shows that you're flatout wrong
upbringing has an utterly tremendous effect on the moral compass of a person. of course genes play a part too but that's beside the point - if you look at different cultures at different times in humanity's past, there's a fucking enormous difference about what is considered right and wrong.
and of course it's in our nature to kill and rob, as a simple glance at any country's crime statistics will show
[QUOTE=Marddox;34276655]Normality does exist, Imagine a parallel world that's the exact same to ours except for in this world they're untouched by restrictions, people are literally free and can do what ever they want and have absolutely no obligations, no religion or laws to limit them. In this parallel world they don't even have television, the internet, magazines basically any sort of media that affects their expectations so they're completely neutral and unbiased and in this parallel world it would still be wrong to kill people or to rob people. I don't believe it's in our nature to do any of the sort.[/QUOTE]
One question.
Are you talking about dead people?
I don't know, but a human without any quirks or strange things about them sounds pretty god damn weird to me.
I agree with what Ragnarock said. It's pretty much no human that does not have an interest/ability of which a lot of other peoples will think bad of. If a person likes some sort of music, there will be someone saying this music is shit, and sometimes, it could be "normal" to like or dislike something.
It's not normal to be religious. (Yes, a lot of people are religious, but if a non-religious, a Muslim, and a Jew meet, no-one will look at each other as "normal")
It's not normal to be extremely rich
It's not normal to be interested in school
It's not normal to have a handicap
It's not normal to have weird interests
It's not normal to...
I think you get the point.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;34280144]and of course it's in our nature to kill and rob, as a simple glance at any country's crime statistics will show
[/QUOTE]
Really? I could of just as easily looked at a statistic about sale growth on yellow torches and say it's human nature to buy yellow stuff. You cannot simply take a statistic certainly not from today's day and age and take a 'simple glance' and say it's our human nature. There are so many untold factors behind these stats that can affect this for example poverty where robbing is actually required a lot of the time just to survive! But according to you this is just how our brains work. We rob for the fun of it.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;34280144]you're gonna have to back that shit up with some facts, because basically psychology shows that you're flatout wrong
[/QUOTE]
basically psychology shows I'm wrong? Well please. Dr.Freud, elaborate.
[QUOTE=Marddox;34276655]I don't [B]believe[/B] it's in our nature to do any of the sort.[/QUOTE]
Belief is a very strong quality... bolding it doesn't make it less important in your eyes as you want us to believe
[editline]19th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Marddox;34292899]Really? I could of just as easily looked at a statistic about sale growth on yellow torches and say it's human nature to buy yellow stuff. You cannot simply take a statistic certainly not from today's day and age and take a 'simple glance' and say it's our human nature. There are so many untold factors behind these stats that can affect this for example poverty where robbing is actually required a lot of the time just to survive! But according to you this is just how our brains work. We rob for the fun of it.
.[/QUOTE]
What he means is that it's not so absurd for a person to steal or murder. Doesn't matter if it's a consequence of poverty or not, the fact is humans will do it with no regrets. I accept this, we're animals after all.
[QUOTE=Seith;34293092]What he means is that it's not so absurd for a person to steal or murder. Doesn't matter if it's a consequence of poverty or not, the fact is humans will do it with no regrets. I accept this, we're animals after all.[/QUOTE]
I know he's saying that it's not so absurd for a person to steal or murder [B]but[/B] in today's generation,you cannot draw to this conclusion talking purely anecdotal or from recent stats since that's not what I'm talking about. I was simply saying in a world without poverty laws and religion etc (just our nature) would be a world with less homicide. Until I see firm evidence or an acceptable and realistic theory on why killing is indeed our instinct, I believe it's not our goal to kill nor is it normal. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, maybe we're just a barbaric self destructive race after all.
I agree with you. When come to think about it... without these environmental effects...
[QUOTE=Marddox;34292899]Really? I could of just as easily looked at a statistic about sale growth on yellow torches and say it's human nature to buy yellow stuff. You cannot simply take a statistic certainly not from today's day and age and take a 'simple glance' and say it's our human nature. There are so many untold factors behind these stats that can affect this for example poverty where robbing is actually required a lot of the time just to survive! But according to you this is just how our brains work. We rob for the fun of it.
basically psychology shows I'm wrong? Well please. Dr.Freud, elaborate.[/QUOTE]
No you couldn't have just as easily looked at yellow torch sales. It [b]IS[/b] human nature to be violent and selfish, this is exactly how our brain works. According to Freud the personality is divided into 3 parts: the Id, the Ego and the Superego. The Id is allegedly the purely selfish part which wants only to satisfy primal instincts and seeks immediate gratification. Therefore some would argue that people steal because they have an overly dominant Id and as such lack morals which would explain why some burglars and murderers are reported to feel utterly no remorse. This is why psychology shows you're wrong. Because you're entirely wrong and any idiot could have told you without referencing theory.
I have always considered normal to be an insult. I have many friends, and they are all weird in their own ways, and if they weren't life would be boring.
I'm not normal, or 'normal' as the society wants me to be. I'm a human being and that's amazing.
I am not normal, but whatever, being normal sucks.
[QUOTE=Someoneuduno;34294887]No you couldn't have just as easily looked at yellow torch sales. It [b]IS[/b] human nature to be violent and selfish, this is exactly how our brain works. According to Freud the personality is divided into 3 parts: the Id, the Ego and the Superego. The Id is allegedly the purely selfish part which wants only to satisfy primal instincts and seeks immediate gratification. Therefore some would argue that people steal because they have an overly dominant Id and as such lack morals which would explain why some burglars and murderers are reported to feel utterly no remorse. This is why psychology shows you're wrong. Because you're entirely wrong and any idiot could have told you without referencing theory.[/QUOTE]
Then why does the diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder exist? Humans have an underlying barbaric nature, but part of our humanity is the ability to reel it in. Almost universally for human cultures, murder within a community is taboo. Now certain cultures may permit you to murder people of certain origins or who broke a by-our-standards silly law, but almost universally a person can't just get away with walking over to their neighbor's house & bashing his head in. Thousands of years ago? Perhaps. Not now.
Even wild animals don't spontaneously kill members of their own pack/herd/pod/etc. It's counter-productive for a social animal.
We evolved to where we are now by working together, not killing each other.
& before someone states, "Oh, but war!"
A) Don't mistake 'by' with 'while.'
B) Killing within your community was/is still a no-no.
C) What chance does the man who has lived alone in the woods his entire life & has manged to craft a spear stand against an army that---after generations of interactions---is armed perhaps with bows-&-arrows or swords or guns or even tanks?
I'm of the opinion that there are no normal human beings, and that normality exists only as an idea, even if a person does fit into said concept of normality.
This idea is of course taking all levels of normal into consideration. For example, if we take how we interact with other people, a certain normality exists from the nature of how we all communicate, but a thoroughly normal person would not be normal.
Think about this: there is a sea of multicolored dots. In this sea, it is considered normal to be a black dot, but not many of these dots are black. Therefore, a black dot in a sea of color would not be normal.
[QUOTE=Someoneuduno;34294887]According to Freud the personality is divided into 3 parts: the Id, the Ego and the Superego. The Id is allegedly the purely selfish part which wants only to satisfy primal instincts and seeks immediate gratification. Therefore some would argue that people steal because they have an overly dominant Id and as such lack morals which would explain why some burglars and murderers are reported to feel utterly no remorse. This is why psychology shows you're wrong. Because you're entirely wrong and any idiot could have told you without referencing theory.[/QUOTE]
freud was full of shit and your justification is wrong, but your conclusion is correct
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;34269582]Now, this is something I personally have pondered a few times. Is there really such thing as "human normality?" When I say that, I personally define it as the human conception of being normal, like talking about "normal" things, acting in a "normal" way, having "normal" hobbies, etc. The question is: does this normality really exist and dictative of the actions we all do or is it some sort of made up misconception we created about the way we act or should act?[/QUOTE]
Did you make this thread because you're having trouble making friends?
[editline]23rd January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;34311913]freud was full of shit and your justification is wrong, but your conclusion is correct[/QUOTE]
Please explain.
Normal would mean conforming to the standard type of human but since there is no standard type of human it is impossible for someone to be the normal person, since a normal person doesnt exist. Normal people are often confused with bland people, which also doesnt exist because people who come off as bland generally are much more complex, they just down show it.
[editline]22nd January 2012[/editline]
Normal itself is an unattainable standard, just like perfection, just to add.
[QUOTE=Vladmir Puta;34349546]Please explain.[/QUOTE]
The concept of "Id, Ego, Superego" is a crock of pseudoscientific shit. It's unfalsifiable and makes no predictions.
However, it has been demonstrated that many sociopaths are literally unable to feel empathy, at a neurological level. When you flash up pictures of gore and torture, normal people's hands start sweating. In sociopaths this is not the case, they don't feel anything.
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