[QUOTE]Quebec, Canada - The Quebec legislature passed a special law to stop this spring’s protests late Friday afternoon as a crowd of legal experts lined up to say the legislation goes too far and contravenes fundamental rights.
Backed by Quebec’s powerful union leaders, student leaders targeted by the law said Friday they are contemplating a campaign of civil disobedience.“The protests will continue and we are not excluding the possibility of disobeying the law. Sometimes when you are facing this kind of action, that is the only response,” said Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, the leader of CLASSE, the more militant of the three main student groups.
On Friday, the Quebec Bar Association warned that it had “serious concerns” about the law’s constitutionality.“This bill, if adopted, is a breach to the fundamental, constitutional rights of the citizens,” the bar association president, bâtonnier Louis Masson, said in a statement.“The scale of its restraints on fundamental freedoms isn’t justified by the objectives aimed by the government.”
He was referring to the bill’s most controversial elements:* Section 16, which says that police has to be informed eights hours ahead of the time, duration and route of any demonstration by 10 or more people or more. (Friday morning the government appeared ready to increase that number to 25.)*
Section 17, which says that organizers, or even a student association taking part in the march without being its organizer, must make sure that the event complies with the parameters handed to police.“
The government is making it harder for people to organize spontaneous demonstrations. It is a limit on freedom of speech,” Mr. Masson said.Legal scholars also gave Bill 78 a bad review.
“Read it. Stunned. Can’t believe that a democratic government can adopt such a law,” tweeted law professor Louis-Philippe Lampron, a Laval University expert in human rights.
Another Laval law professor, Fannie Lafontaine, had concerns about sections of the legislation which aim to prevent protesters from barring other students from attending school.*
Section 13 and 14 say that no one can “directly or indirectly contribute” to delaying classes or denying access to them.* Section 15 says student associations must employ “appropriate means” to induce their members to not directly or indirectly disrupt classes.* Section 25 threatens fines of up to $125,000 to groups that contravene the bill.Prof. Lafontaine, a penal-law specialist, said those sections are too broadly defined while at the same time they are twinned with stiff penalties.“
“In times of crisis, all governments tend to restrain fundamental rights and history shows that excessive restrictions don’t help restore order,” Prof. Lafontaine said.
“It’s too bad because now it’ll be up to the courts to rectify this. What a waste. It’s just throwing oil on fire.
”Labour leaders joined the student movement to blast the law Friday.“They’re disgusted,” said Mr. Roy, president of the Confédération des syndicats nationaux.
“They will not be collaborating in any kind of police action. They are not going to become some kind of police squad for the provincial government. We are very close to having a government ready to trample on fundamental rights.”Added Réjean Parent, the president of the Centrale des syndicats du Quebec: “This law is worthy of a banana republic.”
Student associations reacted immediately, announcing they will challenge the bill in the courts. A major demonstration being planned for next Tuesday in Montreal. [/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/anti-protest-legislation-passes-in-quebec/article2436933/"]source[/URL]
It's up to the courts to strike the law down now. Thing is, the majority of active Judges are from the Liberal Party that form the present Gvt.
Kinda sensationalist title dude
[QUOTE=The golden;36009221]The bill is only aimed at one protest. The people involved in that protest are crying that their rights are being removed while at the same time they're blocking other students from getting to their classes. Schools have had to put the semester on hold because of all the interruptions. You cannot cry that your rights are being removed while you actively deny people their own rights.
Also, you couldn't have picked a worse source.[/QUOTE]
This bill is not aimed at one protest, the scope of the law is far to large. The Lawyers association of Quebec says it goes against fundamental rights. It's not the school that put semesters on hold it's the PM to try to quell the students protest movement.
Schools students associations who have voted in direct democracy for a strike binds all of there constituencies to the strike, while others who have not voted for a strike still binds students that wanted to strike to the decision of all.
We are striking to prevent Quebec from adopting the Anglo-Saxon model of education. We are striking against the savage Neo-liberal ideologies. We are striking to preserve the rights to education to all, be it now but more for the future students after us.
[B]Edit: [/B]It's a hike of 325$ per year accumulating for five years. That means a 75% increase in tuition fees in 5 years. It's fucking bullshit because it's unjustified, the Gvt admitted they don't know how Universities spend their money, yet they need more.
Even after all these years, the small island of french speaking people in Canada still think more like France's people than any other.
"quebec's prime minister"
lol
[QUOTE=Mon;36009435]"quebec's prime minister"
lol[/QUOTE]
Ech, in French they are called Premier Ministre (English-Prime Minister) so there is no verbal distinction between the federal and provincial leaders.
[QUOTE=The golden;36009483]Yeeaaah. Sorry, I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing protesters blocking class access and protesters throwing bricks at police officers.[/QUOTE]
Va d'on chier mon p'tit Rhodésien méprisant...
[QUOTE=The golden;36009483]
I would agree with your cause if there was actually a problem, but there isn't. The Canadian education system is quite reputable and the prices are some of the lowest. I don't agree with the unnecessary price-hike, but attacking rioting and denying non-protesting students their rights totally invalidates your claims.[/QUOTE]
You're a fool if you put every students into the same group and label them as rioters.
Still it does not invalidates our claims, you are trying to pin ideologies to people, even if some of the messengers are aggressive rioters, the claims are still valid.
Our Gvt is corrupted down the bones and there is more proofs of it coming out every day by the Anti-coruption police taskforce. If the money was truly needed and the Gvt had justification for the Hike, people would put the money down, but as it is right now, we don't want to put money in a system where the spending of money is not verified by no one.
Right now, the only justification for the fee increase is: The rest of Canada and the US pay more than us, we should pay the same. It's just not a valid justification, whatever you may say.
incompetent, corrupt and greedy government VS unreasonable, stupid and spoiled kids, who wins?
no one apparently... 3 months later and they both still suck. Morons have a hard time agreeing with morons who think differently.
We all should slap a colored square on and make it a fashion statement because they don't mean shit.
We should all strip our clothes to show we're serious and we should be taken seriously.
We should force other people that want to learn out of their class with violence so they can't learn because we're poor and its easier to riot than to get a job.
Fuck off protesters and stop fucking blocking me in the metro with your fucking signs and fucking colors so I can go to fucking work while I watch you idiots prance around in your underwear.
Sincerely,
ME
[QUOTE=Scottismelol;36009658]incompetent, corrupt and greedy government VS unreasonable, stupid and spoiled kids, who wins?
no one apparently... 3 months later and they both still suck. Morons have a hard time agreeing with morons who think differently.
We all should slap a colored square on and make it a fashion statement because they don't mean shit.
We should all strip our clothes to show we're serious and we should be taken seriously.
We should force other people that want to learn out of their class with violence so they can't learn because we're poor and its easier to riot than to get a job.
Fuck off protesters and stop fucking blocking me in the metro with your fucking signs and fucking colors so I can go to fucking work while I watch you idiots prance around in your underwear.
Sincerely,
ME[/QUOTE]
Hey dude after now near 3 months of striking, the longest strike in Quebec history, we need to be creative in our protests.
You call the government ''incompetent, corrupt and greedy'' and think it would be right if we ''reasoned'' and let the Gvt make arbitrary decision based on nothing but ideologies?
Sorry we are trying to make a better world for your kids too.
[QUOTE=Scottismelol;36009658]incompetent, corrupt and greedy government VS unreasonable, stupid and spoiled kids, who wins?
no one apparently... 3 months later and they both still suck. Morons have a hard time agreeing with morons who think differently.
We all should slap a colored square on and make it a fashion statement because they don't mean shit.
We should all strip our clothes to show we're serious and we should be taken seriously.
We should force other people that want to learn out of their class with violence so they can't learn because we're poor and its easier to riot than to get a job.
Fuck off protesters and stop fucking blocking me in the metro with your fucking signs and fucking colors so I can go to fucking work while I watch you idiots prance around in your underwear.
Sincerely,
ME[/QUOTE]
Ladies and gentlemen, this is why education should be free.
That law is a total waste of time and money, the current conflict will never end as long as the gouvernment doesnt sit with the student movement and actually negociate with them rather than try and fuck em even more with bogus offers and empty promises.
Fun fact: The prime minister has not even greeted or even talked with the student leaders at all, even when they were in the same room.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;36009700]Hey dude after now near 3 months of striking, the longest strike in Quebec history, we need to be creative in our protests.
You call the government ''incompetent, corrupt and greedy'' and think it would be right if we ''reasoned'' and let the Gvt make arbitrary decision based on nothing but ideologies?
Sorry we are trying to make a better world for your kids too.[/QUOTE]
except you can do that without harassing the general population
So they're pissed that tuition is going up and they're pissed that the government ended the semester because they bitched too long AND they're pissed that the government wants to make sure dumb shits aren't protesting by setting off smoke bombs in the subway?
Fuck, this tuition hike is equivalent to the government rebate I'm supposed to get back for having too high a tuition in Ontario. If the students weren't impeding people trying to live their lives or those trying to still go to school, and if they weren't bitching about tuition going up to about a third of what I pay I may sympathize with them more, but if they really want something to protest about they should try going to school in Ontario.
Also, "Prime Minister of Quebec?" I think you mean "Premier."
[QUOTE=Mon;36010060]except you can do that without harassing the general population[/QUOTE]
Not really, we tried the first month of the protests and they were peaceful.
On the 22 of Mars we had a big rally of 200,000 people in the roads of Montreal, the government didn't gave two shits.
After being tired of not getting heard, damn right the protesters have a right to be angry and try new things to get heard.
Also, since when protest are not about disturbing people? Are you for real ?
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;36010094]So they're pissed that tuition is going up and they're pissed that the government ended the semester because they bitched too long AND they're pissed that the government wants to make sure dumb shits aren't protesting by setting off smoke bombs in the subway?
Fuck, this tuition hike is equivalent to the government rebate I'm supposed to get back for having too high a tuition in Ontario. If the students weren't impeding people trying to live their lives or those trying to still go to school, and if they weren't bitching about tuition going up to about a third of what I pay I may sympathize with them more, but if they really want something to protest about they should try going to school in Ontario.
Also, "Prime Minister of Quebec?" I think you mean "Premier."[/QUOTE]
Why is that people can't want good for others ? '' If I pay more everybody should pay just as high as me''
It's sad, if we had the power, we would surely try to make your tuitions fees more like ours, yet you have blind rage against us.
Understand that this hike is UNJUSTIFIED by the Gvt. It's only the Liberal's way of imposing Neo-libs ideologies into Québec.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;36010094]Also, "Prime Minister of Quebec?" I think you mean "Premier."[/QUOTE]
No, he doesn't. He really, really doesn't.
As I already said, in French the term is Premier Ministre, which means Prime Minister in English. Mechanical is Quebecois, who have a tendency to speak French. Therefore, when he uses English it is only natural the French terms appear. It is a literal translation of the French term.
[QUOTE=Mon;36010060]except you can do that without harassing the general population[/QUOTE]
Except that's not how a protest works. MLK didn't go "I want serious change for this country, but only if it doesn't mess with anybodies dinner plans."
[QUOTE=Florence;36009953]Fun fact: The prime minister has not even greeted or even talked with the student leaders at all, even when they were in the same room.[/QUOTE]
Because the leader of Classe is a pompous asswipe. The leaders of FEUQ and the other group just suck his dick, and I doubt they'd want to greet Charest either.
[editline]18th May 2012[/editline]
Doesn't help that some of the strike votes were questionable at best (looking at you Concordia).
You guys have to understand that while the protest stems and started from the increase tuition fees, it's also for everything else that the government does to us, personally living in Quebec, I can tell you that shit gets extremely expensive here, if I recall correctly, in 30 years, the living expenses went up by almost 50%, houses went up in price by like 400% while the salary only went up by 1.5% and they just keep increasing the prices of everything while we keep the exact same salary.
The protest isn't strictly because of an increased tuition fee at this point.
While I still don't agree with the hike (at this point, I'd rather see investigations on school spending first, and if there are no/no realistic alternatives then so be it, I'll be willing to pay more to benefit the school. Hell, if they ended up putting that money into healthcare I'd be fine with it as well). But I do not support the student protests, especially after they started likening the tuition protests to the American Civil Rights Movement and the Arab Spring. Hell, some of them were calling this the goddamn "Quebec Spring" which is a complete and utter load of bullshit.
Also you want to protest police "ultra-violence", hey, at least they're not firing goddamn dum-dum bullets at crowds or using tanks to stop the protests. Have the taxpayers gone around and lynched students? Why don't you go and throw more sacks of bricks on the metro, or smoke bombs, or throw rocks at cars off an overpass.
[editline]18th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Heigou;36010277]You guys have to understand that while the protest stems and started from the increase tuition fees, it's also for everything else that the government does to us, personally living in Quebec, I can tell you that shit gets extremely expensive here, if I recall correctly, in 30 years, the living expenses went up by almost 50%, houses went up in price by like 400% while the salary only went up by 1.5% and they just keep increasing the prices of everything while we keep the exact same salary.
The protest isn't strictly because of an increased tuition fee at this point.[/QUOTE]
Which became pretty clear about a month or so into the student strike. Its why I never used the anti-strike argument of "get a job you smelly hippies".
[QUOTE=markfu;36010330]Which became pretty clear about a month or so into the student strike. Its why I never used the anti-strike argument of "get a job you smelly hippies".[/QUOTE]
Yeah, was mostly mentionning this part for the people in this thread who did not know and went "HURRBENEBERPDERP Y DEY PROTEST FOR SLIGHT INCREASE IN TUITION FEES?!??! LOLRETURDS"
On topic I do feel that the law would set a dangerous precedent.
[img]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/550991_10150893477467192_502392191_9702102_366243655_n.jpg[/img]
The strike, at this point, is to defend constitutional rights for protesting, against the rise of educational cost that has no real reason to climb up other than being a greedy government, and to get the fucking idiotic prime minister Charest out of his powerful spot before he can do much more worse.
Be aware, that with this new law, you cannot protest unless you do all this :
A) You tell the police you are going to do so 8 hours ahead of time
B) You tell the police your trajectory, again, 8 hours ahead of time
C) You tell the police how many people will assist, 8 hours ahead of time
D) You tell the police how people will get there, 8 hours ahead of time.
E) If you prevent access to an educational area while the people in this said school have voted to go on strike (Majority votes), you are eligible
-As an individual, 1000 to 5000 dollars fine
-As a leader of a group, 5000 to 15 000 dollars fine
-An education association, 15000 to 35 000 dollars fine, and you might get your funding cut.
F) Police officers have the right to rip off your mask if they even have DOUBTS you might be there to cause trouble.
These fines will also be doubled if you do it twice, then tripled thrice, and so on.
This law prevents people from protesting with any kind of efficiency, and it is just a cop out from the government (And their prime minister) to not have to deal with the problem at hand, instead reporting it in three months, thinking again that the movement will die down in due time. (By the way, they did exactly that the first month, and people got pissed and starting being more disruptive)
And by the way, this law does not only apply to students, but also worker associations or any other protests in Quebec.
Hence, why this law is complete bullshit and goes against the right to protest.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;36009700]Hey dude after now near 3 months of striking, the longest strike in Quebec history, we need to be creative in our protests.
You call the government ''incompetent, corrupt and greedy'' and think it would be right if we ''reasoned'' and let the Gvt make arbitrary decision based on nothing but ideologies?
Sorry we are trying to make a better world for your kids too.[/QUOTE]
Hey, here's an original idea, go and kidnap Charest, then strangle him and leave him in the trunk of a car. Its bound to work! Oh wait.
Don't you mean premier? Do I really have to post it again..
[QUOTE=smace;36010948]Don't you mean premier? Do I really have to post it again..[/QUOTE]
C'mon dude, [url=http://facepunch.com/threads/1184936?p=36010141&viewfull=1#post36010141]read.[/url]
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;36010958]C'mon dude, [url=http://facepunch.com/threads/1184936?p=36010141&viewfull=1#post36010141]read.[/url][/QUOTE]
I'm Canadian and I've never heard of it being misused in my life, its also incorrect as this is a English forum.
[QUOTE][B]Federal Government:[/B]
Head of State – Queen Elizabeth II (Has no power at all)
Governor General – Queen’s representative in Canada (Once again, no power at all.)
Prime Minister (leader of the party in power)
House of Commons represented by 308 Members of Parliament (MPs) elected through federal elections, 1 member per each of the 308 electoral districts or ridings
Senate (105 appointed Senators)
[B]Provincial Government:[/B]
Lieutenant Governor – Queen’s representative in a province
Premier – leader of the government in a province, Commissioner - leader of the government in a territory
Legislative Assembly is represented by Members of
Provincial Parliament (MPPs) elected through provincial elections, 1 MPP per each electoral district or riding
[B]Municipal Government:[/B]
City Council represented by Mayor (in an urban setting) or Reeve (in a rural setting) and elected councilors (1 councilor per ward, city electoral district).[/QUOTE]
Oh hey thanks for that handy chart of the organization of the government, totally relevant.
[QUOTE=smace;36010985]I'm Canadian and I've never heard of it being misused in my life, its also incorrect as this is a English forum.[/QUOTE]
Uh huh, but the point is, he speaks French primarily, English is most likely his second language. So he has used Premier Ministre his entire life, and it literally means Prime Minister. He is using the literal translation. Calling the Premier of Quebec the Prime Minister is still quite prevalent in English anyway. And, Premier and Prime Minister were interchangeable in the rest of Canada until it was eventually phased out to avoid confusion with the federal government. Some BC Premier in the 70's called himself Prime Minister of BC. I believe it's derived from the fact that, in Britain, Premier and Prime Minister were interchangeable for the federal government. Since each of the colonies originally had it's own, separate governing body, each place used Premier/Prime Minister. He's really not fucking anything up.
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;36011116]Oh hey thanks for that handy chart of the organization of the government, totally relevant.
Uh huh, but the point is, he speaks French primarily, English is most likely his second language. So he has used Premier Ministre his entire life, and it literally means Prime Minister. He is using the literal translation. Calling the Premier of Quebec the Prime Minister is still quite prevalent in English anyway. And, Premier and Prime Minister were interchangeable in the rest of Canada until it was eventually phased out to avoid confusion with the federal government. Some BC Premier in the 70's called himself Prime Minister of BC. I believe it's derived from the fact that, in Britain, Premier and Prime Minister were interchangeable for the federal government. Since each of the colonies originally had it's own, separate governing body, each place used Premier/Prime Minister. He's really not fucking anything up.[/QUOTE]
English media refers to all provincial leaders as "Premiers". His issue is a translation one, and that's fine: I'm from Quebec too and I sometimes say silly things. Now that we all know it is "Premier" in English, it would be less confusing to say so. Prime Minister is almost always reserved specifically for the federal level.
As for the student fees, you guys need to understand that the government first reduced the availability of loans and bursaries a few years ago, which was met with some serious disdain from the academic world. Now they want to raise tuition fees? See, the problem is, people in Quebec pay higher income tax than most provinces to help pay things like tuition. Do you really think that, after the government raises tuition, they're going to lower income tax? LOL NOPE. So they're double dipping there while making school less available to the poor, and all this while Quebec boasts the incredible minimum wage of, what, 8.25$? I don't know, I hop the border into Ottawa and work there instead, so I'm not as familiar with Quebec labour shit.
I'm just happy to see the people of Quebec actually giving a shit about something. In Ontario, when people are mad about something they do nothing. So far I've seen only internet activists give 2 shits about anything.
I'm surprised and glad to see that there is people here who seems to get it and actually understands the situation.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;36011358]English media refers to all provincial leaders as "Premiers". His issue is a translation one, and that's fine: I'm from Quebec too and I sometimes say silly things. Now that we all know it is "Premier" in English, it would be less confusing to say so. Prime Minister is almost always reserved specifically for the federal level.
As for the student fees, you guys need to understand that the government first reduced the availability of loans and bursaries a few years ago, which was met with some serious disdain from the academic world. Now they want to raise tuition fees? See, the problem is, people in Quebec pay higher income tax than most provinces to help pay things like tuition. Do you really think that, after the government raises tuition, they're going to lower income tax? LOL NOPE. So they're double dipping there while making school less available to the poor, and all this while Quebec boasts the incredible minimum wage of, what, 8.25$? I don't know, I hop the border into Ottawa and work there instead, so I'm not as familiar with Quebec labour shit.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for this. It certainly helps bring the Student protest into perspective a bit more for those of us in provinces outside of Quebec. If the income tax truly is higher than what most of the country pays then the tuition hike certainly sounds like a lovely stab in the back. Especially so for people with low income who are trying to get a degree.
Also I'm surprised that Quebec's minimum wage is only $8.25. I had thought that the national average for minimum wage was $10.00 instead of ranging so massively between the provinces. I guess my memory is shoddy as usual.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.