[video=youtube;XjJQBjWYDTs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs[/video]
Good video, but do yourself a favor and not read the comments.
[QUOTE=isnipeu;45297969][video=youtube;XjJQBjWYDTs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs[/video]
Good video, but do yourself a favor and not read the comments.[/QUOTE]
i went there to take a screencap of a hilariously disgusting comment but.... there's too many. i can't.
to be completely honest, in PE class some girls runs/throws exactly like that. Not all girls do it, but some do. And I've never seen a guy do that, so that's why we use that expression
[QUOTE=Evi.tf;45298113]to be completely honest, in PE class some girls runs/throws exactly like that. Not all girls do it, but some do. And I've never seen a guy do that, so that's why we use that expression[/QUOTE]
As long as there's a number of girls that doesn't do it that way, there's no reason to keep using the expression.
The fact that you're actually trying to justify stigma really puzzles me.
[QUOTE=Evi.tf;45298113]to be completely honest, in PE class some girls runs/throws exactly like that. Not all girls do it, but some do. And I've never seen a guy do that, so that's why we use that expression[/QUOTE]
It's still kind of sexist.
You don't go around saying "you run like a black guy"
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
ew i went to the comments
[QUOTE=ImpSnob;45298159]It's still kind of sexist.
You don't go around saying "you run like a black guy"
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
ew i went to the comments[/QUOTE]
you run like a KENYAN
Yeah, it's kinda obvious why it exists, even if you don't agree. On the whole women aren't as engaged in sport and it's pushed significantly more for boys than girls, so the impression that girls aren't as good comes around and the usual insult of saying a boy acts like a girl or vice versa fits it well.
I'm sure it's uplifting and inspirational, but I still find futility in it. There's more involved than just one insult (that's generally directed at boys) and the kind of fuckery your self-esteem gets in puberty is universal. IMO getting lumped in as bad at sport is nothing compared to peer rejection for not following everyone else, especially when physical ability isn't a cultural expectation of you.
Not to mention the bullshit that boys go through if they want to do anything considered feminine, this certainly isn't an issue where girls have it worse.
jesus fucking christ the comments are disgusting
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/CbDkLEp.png[/IMG]
I couldn't go any further than 3 comments before getting mad.
Christ why do people like them exist.
That video was great.
I'm pretty sure this insult is aimed at [I]men[/I]
not girls.
When I see this kind of thing happen it's [I]usually[/I] used as an insult towards boys though. Like when some guy throws a shitty pitch you could hear some other dipshit go: "You throw like a girl dude!"
Which brings me to this comment, which I think is also true:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/detbldX.png[/IMG]
Not entirely the same thing, but still. Don't get me wrong though, using this kind of stigma against girls isn't any better either. I just feel these kind of ad campaings are so one-sided, only empowering one of both parties, while completely neglecting similar issues that the other party may also have all at the same time. As if boys never have to deal with any similar insults.
It's still at the expense of girls. Guys are accused of it, but the nature of the insult itself stems from girls.
Boys going through bullshit is still true, but do we have to bring that up every time an opinion regarding discrimination against women is presented? It is possible for both boys and girls to be affected by social stigma. This is an Always advert, and is thus obviously female orientated.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;45298309]It's still at the expense of girls. Guys are accused of it, but the nature of the insult itself stems from girls.
Boys going through bullshit is still true, but do we have to bring that up every time an opinion regarding discrimination against women is brought up? It is possible for both boys and girls to be affected by social stigma. This is an Always advert, and is thus obviously female orientated.[/QUOTE]
I was raised in a very, I guess you could say 'Male dominated' family (which i have tried to rectify) but when it comes to things like this i get confused at which side to take because I honestly am struggling to see how this is insulting to females.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;45298336]I was raised in a very, I guess you could say 'Male dominated' family (which i have tried to rectify) but when it comes to things like this i get confused at which side to take because I honestly am struggling to see how this is insulting to females.[/QUOTE]
I was too, man.
Okay, so let's take an example from this thread. If you're accused of "swimming like a black guy" - do you take offense because of it criticizing your swimming capabilities or because it generalizes black people as not being able to swim? Do you take it personally or are you offended by it being blatantly racist? It's all about empathy and recognizing systematic stigma against large groups of people.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;45298309]It's still at the expense of girls. Guys are accused of it, but the nature of the insult itself stems from girls.
Boys going through bullshit is still true, but do we have to bring that up every time an opinion regarding discrimination against women is presented? It is possible for both boys and girls to be affected by social stigma. This is an Always advert, and is thus obviously female orientated.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to agree with you on this one.
Though sometimes I just feel like that through ads like these people would start to think that women are worse off than men in today's society, more than is actually the case. You could easily turn this ad around and make it male-oriented. Why do I have to man up, why can't I just be myself etc. So I'm just not entirely conviced of the urgence of the issue at hand.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;45298283]I'm pretty sure this insult is aimed at [I]men[/I]
not girls.[/QUOTE]
The insults is usually aimed at men, yes, but the physical insult itself implies that women are degenerative compared to men, and that a man doing x "like a girl" means he's weaker or useless, implying women are weaker and useless.
It insults a specific person when used, along with an entire gender.
[QUOTE=Larry_G;45298358]I'll have to agree with you on this one.
Though sometimes I just feel like that through ads like these people would start to think that women are worse off than men in today's society, more than is actually the case. You could easily turn this ad around and make it male-oriented. Why do I have to man up, why can't I just be myself etc. So I'm just not entirely conviced of the urgence of the issue at hand.[/QUOTE]
As I've said before - it's about empathy and the ability to maintain two thoughts in your head at once. I do not think that this advert portrays issues as being more urgent than what they actually are. Discrimination judged as "over dramatic" or "unrealistic" by guys is really, really easy because we experience the world in a different way than women (whether we like it or not).
With the amount of self hatred, eating disorders, inferiority complexes (etc., etc.) systematically expressed by women I would be very careful with trying to quantify problems in "favour" of men. Remember that in cases like this you can't solely base your view on subjective, personal experience. It's far more complex than that.
it's always really funny when companies cash in on the tumblr/feminist crowd. for some reason i expect some kind of backlash every time since they are using a legitimate issue in todays society for commercial gain but everybody just eats it up.
also does anyone really believe this was the genuine reaction of these people? i'd bet good money they were instructed exactly how to "run like a girl" and what to say afterwards.
the message is good tho, to be fair.
[QUOTE=Croix;45298406]the message is good tho, to be fair.[/QUOTE]
why even add the first to paragraphs of your post if you think the message is good
no shit they're going to cherry pick the people who acted exactly like they want to, it's a PSA video thing, do you really think it'd work if they showed a video of every single person they recorded?
When did "Like a girl" become an insult? I dunno, I think it was the dark ages. I don't even hear kids use it anymore.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;45298151]As long as there's a number of girls that doesn't do it that way, there's no reason to keep using the expression.
The fact that you're actually trying to justify stigma really puzzles me.[/QUOTE]
i dont think using that expression is right, im just saying where it comes from
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45298423]why even add the first to paragraphs of your post if you think the message is good
no shit they're going to cherry pick the people who acted exactly like they want to, it's a PSA video thing, do you really think it'd work if they showed a video of every single person they recorded?[/QUOTE]
i'm not saying they cherry picked their reactions im saying they got a bunch of actors and told them exactly what to do.
also my last sentence didnt mean i thought it being a good message completely excuses it being produced by a company, basically using the massive issue of gender roles as an advertisement campaign.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;45298346]I was too, man.
Okay, so let's take an example from this thread. If you're accused of "swimming like a black guy" - do you take offense because of it criticizing your swimming capabilities or because it generalizes black people as not being able to swim? Do you take it personally or are you offended by it being blatantly racist? It's all about empathy and recognizing systematic stigma against large groups of people.[/QUOTE]
You can say white guys can't dance/play basketball, and the thing is that if you might care if you were sensitive about that, but you could just as easily not care.
If someone told me I had a boy's haircut or I smelled like a football player, I don't think I'd care too much, but say the same thing to a girl and it'd be pretty big. For a lot of girls the insinuation they're bad at sport doesn't matter, because it's not something they care about, not something they derive their self-worth from, and not going to make them feel worthless if you take it away from them.
For girls who do value their physical ability, great, just remember it's a general statement and not a personal attack, you can always defy conventions at an individual level, and that there's probably bigger problems in other women judging them for not adhering to their feminine ideals.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;45298482]
For girls who do value their physical ability, great, just remember it's a general statement and not a personal attack, you can always defy [B]conventions[/B] at an individual level, and that there's probably bigger problems in other women judging them for not adhering to their [B]feminine ideals[/B].[/QUOTE]
yo, these conventions and feminine ideals are the issue. the argument is about whether the feminine ideals are created by society or are biological. a lot of people think conventions like this shouldnt exist.
not that i know that much about feminism, this is just how i've understood it.
Some girls do act like that, but only because they've been taught to act like that because of some people reinforcing that whole stereotype. Every able-bodied person, regardless of gender, has athletic potential. I've seen it back in my old PE classes, all the guys actually did/got pushed to do shit whereas the girls were all just sat on the bench, either as a result of teachers not feeling the need to 'push their masculinity' or as a result of feeling like they couldn't compete.
[QUOTE=Croix;45298494]yo, these conventions and feminine ideals are the issue. the argument is about whether the feminine ideals are created by society or are biological. a lot of people think conventions like this shouldnt exist.
not that i know that much about feminism, this is just how i've understood it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's about right, a big part of most feminism is the complete elimination of any gender roles, something I think is tantamount to changing human nature. With sport and that though, there are big biological influences that can contribute to this dimorphism. It's just biological that women don't have as much upper body strength and as such they're generally going to find interests elsewhere, and there's not even anything wrong with that so it's a hard argument to push against people not being interested in something.
I'm all for removing the stigma around it, but if we're talking teenagers then they're some of the most petty people around and if they don't have some societal conventions to adhere to, they'll make their own and exclude people anyway. There's a point where the stigma can't be helped easily and you're better off providing support and coping mechanisms, and for teenagers that stigma isn't going away soon.
You guys weren't kiddin' about the comments.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/RR9AL2f.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Devodiere;45298545]Yeah that's about right, a big part of most feminism is the complete elimination of any gender roles, something I think is tantamount to changing human nature. With sport and that though, there are big biological influences that can contribute to this dimorphism. It's just biological that women don't have as much upper body strength and as such they're generally going to find interests elsewhere, and there's not even anything wrong with that so it's a hard argument to push against people not being interested in something.
I'm all for removing the stigma around it, but if we're talking teenagers then they're some of the most petty people around and if they don't have some societal conventions to adhere to, they'll make their own and exclude people anyway. There's a point where the stigma can't be helped easily and you're better off providing support and coping mechanisms, and for teenagers that stigma isn't going away soon.[/QUOTE]
It's the kind of social change that'll take years to take place if progress stays all good and well. I don't think women should be taught that dimorphism is a major weakness though, if they can condition themselves to match the upper body strength of whoever they're competing against, performing with or whatever then it should be fair game.
A genuine curiosity though, is the difference in upper body strength natural, or is it another thing that we've kind of put in to place? Like, is it because women aren't encouraged to exercise etc, or that just how it is by biology? Dimorphism is something I've had trouble learing properly about.
[QUOTE=geogzm;45298701]It's the kind of social change that'll take years to take place if progress stays all good and well. I don't think women should be taught that dimorphism is a major weakness though, if they can condition themselves to match the upper body strength of whoever they're competing against, performing with or whatever then it should be fair game.
A genuine curiosity though, is the difference in upper body strength natural, or is it another thing that we've kind of put in to place? Like, is it because women aren't encouraged to exercise etc, or that just how it is by biology? Dimorphism is something I've had trouble learing properly about.[/QUOTE]
A lot of that is social change that is either too much work for too little gain, or just not going to happen. As I said before women have already managed to get over their lower physical strength by not placing any real importance on it, because it only matters if you want it to matter. There are a lot of ways to be successful and there's no need to work your physical strength to ridiculous levels when you can just be good at something else just as valid.
And yeah, even [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism#Humans]Wikipedia[/url] lists the differences in muscle mass as undisputed. There may have been some cultural aspect to the development of it, but it would date back thousands of years and is set in our biology now and even top athletes who obviously go against the cultural encouragement show obvious differences.
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