• Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers cross into Russia; disagreement over whether they have defected
    28 replies, posted
[img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76711000/jpg/_76711114_3c4d4efc-9e8e-411c-a979-f0f7a4cbf772.jpg[/img] [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76671000/gif/_76671157_ukraine_rebel_control_624_latest(1).gif[/img] [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28637569[/url] [quote]More than 300 Ukrainian troops have crossed into Russia during heavy fighting with pro-Russian separatists. A Ukrainian security spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, said the 311 soldiers and border guards "had to cross into Russian territory" at the Gukovo checkpoint in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine is trying to get them back now through diplomatic channels, he said. Earlier a Russian security official said 438 Ukrainian troops had been given refuge in Russia as "defectors". The border area is very tense amid Ukrainian allegations that Russian forces have been helping the separatists with rocket barrages. Russia has announced that it will hold an air force exercise this week near the border. A Russian defence ministry spokesman said 100 aircraft would take part in the operation.[/quote] [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-hundreds-ukraine-troops-defect-russia-military-drills-border/[/url] [quote]More than 400 Ukrainian soldiers have crossed the border into Russia and deserted the Kiev government, news agency Interfax quoted a border security official as saying Monday. Ukraine confirmed the crossing but said the soldiers were forced into Russian territory by rebel fire. Vasily Malayev, head of the Federal Security Service's border patrol in the Rostov region, told Interfax that 438 Ukrainian soldiers had reached Russia on Monday. He said the Russian side had opened a safe corridor for the soldiers into Russia. The Ukrainian military confirmed that part of a brigade had most likely crossed into Russian territory, although it disputed Russia's version of events and would not say how many soldiers had crossed the border. A spokesman for the Ukrainian military operation in the east, Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky, said troops from the army's 72nd brigade were penned into their position and came under a sustained barrage of rocket attacks from separatist forces. Rebel fighters fired for four hours from multiple heavy weapons, including tanks, mortars, artillery and Grad missile launchers, Dmitrashkovsky said, and eventually the brigade was forced to divide up into two sections to break out. "One was meant to break out and join forces with a support unit. The other unit had the task of providing fire cover," Dmitrashkovsky said. "In doing that they fired their weapons until no ammunition remained, after which they abandoned their position and reached a place near a border crossing on Russian territory."[/quote]
I doubt they've defected, it's a bit too late for that if they wanted to anyway. They probably didn't though. Most defectors left at the start or even before the war started, why would they fight until the end, knowing that they might die in the anti-terrorist operations only to defect at the end?
not surprised they don't want to fight for ukraine after the riots
[img]http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/08/6900bbc04d88d0ee6d165bca561e5f67.jpg[/img] [img]http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/08/53e7564ee901751e67efbbe7ed796be5.jpg[/img] [img]http://s7.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/08/b72e593c5e50b2ba1aa88b33e61fdcdf.jpg[/img] Pictures of the soldiers.
They seem well treated according to those pictures.
According to Ukrainian BBC 180 soldiers went home, there's no information suggesting that any soldier wants to stay in Russia. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukrainian/politics/2014/08/140804_72_brigade_numbers_update_zsh.shtml[/url] [quote]Представник прикордонного управління ФСБ РФ у Ростовській області у понеділок заявив, що 180 українських військовослужбовців висловили бажання повернутись в Україну. "О 14:29 за московським часом 180 українських військовослужбовців, які вночі перейшли кордон із Росією в Ростовській області, вирушили в Україну автобусами", - цитує речника прикордонного управління Василя Малаєва агенція "Інтерфакс".[/quote] [quote]The representative of the FSB Border Management in the Rostov region on Monday said that 180 Ukrainian soldiers have expressed a desire to return to Ukraine. "At 14:29 Moscow time 180 Ukrainian soldiers that night crossed the border with Russia in Rostov Oblast to Ukraine with the bus" - quoted spokesman Vasyl Malay border management agency "Interfax".[/quote]
[QUOTE=headshotter;45590776]They seem well treated according to those pictures.[/QUOTE] Pictures can be staged, let alone photoshopped these days.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45590918]Pictures can be staged, let alone photoshopped these days.[/QUOTE] It's Russia .'. the soldiers are naked in freezing conditions while a gulag is built to accommodate them. If they are defectors what reason would Russia have to mistreat them? If anything you would want to treat them well to concrete them on your side.
If they defected, they wouldn't be mistreated, if anything they would be pressed back into service as lower ranking Russian soldiers, or parroted around.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;45590574]I doubt they've defected, it's a bit too late for that if they wanted to anyway. They probably didn't though. Most defectors left at the start or even before the war started, why would they fight until the end, knowing that they might die in the anti-terrorist operations only to defect at the end?[/QUOTE] People desert when things go wrong. But i don't know why ukrainian soldiers would defect now, when they are coping pretty good, according to some latest news from there.
[QUOTE=antianan;45591240]People desert when things go wrong. But i don't know why ukrainian soldiers would defect now, when they are coping pretty good, according to some latest news from there.[/QUOTE] They all apparently ran out of ammunition and had to retreat somewhere, and one of the safest places was beyond the Russian border. The same happened to 30-40 or so Ukrainian border guards, they got shelled, and either ran out of ammo or needed to retreat with wounded, so they went over the border.
So are the rest POW's now or what?
Maybe they are done fighting the war and just want to go home ? Maybe they just wanted to fight for Ukraine ?
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45592090]Maybe they are done fighting the war and just want to go home ? Maybe they just wanted to fight for Ukraine ?[/QUOTE] or maybe they just ran out of ammunition as they said and the only way to avoid being capitulated by the encroaching separatist forces was to breakthrough into an area across the boarder?
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;45591277]They all apparently ran out of ammunition and had to retreat somewhere, and one of the safest places was beyond the Russian border. The same happened to 30-40 or so Ukrainian border guards, they got shelled, and either ran out of ammo or needed to retreat with wounded, so they went over the border.[/QUOTE] Well, it's not the same imo. I mean, I don't think they were surrounded or something, so they could easily move west to regroup, but they decided to take the east direction instead.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45592623]or maybe they just ran out of ammunition as they said and the only way to avoid being capitulated by the encroaching separatist forces was to breakthrough into an area across the boarder?[/QUOTE] Or that.
They're clearly moles. Off to the gulags with them!!
[QUOTE=antianan;45591240]People desert when things go wrong. But i don't know why ukrainian soldiers would defect now, when they are coping pretty good, according to some latest news from there.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I don't really know why I got rated disagrees since there isn't a really good reason to defect at this moment.
I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of them did defect, the Ukrainian Military is extremely compromised. They seriously need to purge the ranks of Pro-Russia sympathisers and status-symbol leaders.
It's amazing that they are able to run out of ammo, assuming each rifleman has about 3 magazines with 30 rounds in each they would have to burn through over 18 000 rounds collectively and that would be just on their person. One would assume that the 200 or so men that would be covering the retreat would at least have one or two support vehicles that would have ammunition in them. Then again it is far more likely that some logistics officer sold any spare ammunition on the black market.
[QUOTE=Greg25kk;45596771]It's amazing that they are able to run out of ammo, [B]assuming each rifleman has about 3 magazines with 30 rounds in each they would have to burn through over 18 000[/B] rounds and that would be just on their person. One would assume that the 200 or so men that would be covering the retreat would at least have one or two support vehicles that would have ammunition in them. Then again it is far more likely that some logistics officer sold any spare ammunition on the black market.[/QUOTE] unless i am missing something you might want to do your math again
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;45597249]unless i am missing something you might want to do your math again[/QUOTE] Assuming 400 soldiers seeing as Russian sources put it at over 400 and Ukrainian ones as around 300-350 400/2 = 200 Because they split into 2 groups, one retreating and one covering 30*3=90 therefore 90 rounds per man. 200*90 = 18 000 rounds total This is a simplified calculation as not all men would be riflemen there would be squad and platoon level machine guns that would have a higher ammo count to them.
[QUOTE=Greg25kk;45597432]Assuming 400 soldiers seeing as Russian sources put it at over 400 and Ukrainian ones as around 300-350 400/2 = 200 Because they split into 2 groups, one retreating and one covering 30*3=90 therefore 90 rounds per man. 200*90 = 18 000 rounds total This is a simplified calculation as not all men would be riflemen there would be squad and platoon level machine guns that would have a higher ammo count to them.[/QUOTE] i was misinterpreting, i assumed you meant 18k rounds per person
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;45597495]i was misinterpreting, i assumed you meant 18k rounds per person[/QUOTE] A minigun and ammo trailer for every soldier!
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45597514]A minigun and ammo trailer for every soldier![/QUOTE] damn Arm the Mob got buffed
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;45597495]i was misinterpreting, i assumed you meant 18k rounds per person[/QUOTE] There, I edited the post to clarify in order to prevent any further misinterpretations.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45594913]I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of them did defect, the Ukrainian Military is extremely compromised. They seriously need to purge the ranks of Pro-Russia sympathisers and status-symbol leaders.[/QUOTE] They have kicked out most of them, and since most pro-Russian sympathisers left by themselves too, theres's only a few left. Banning the communist party was also part of it.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;45597526]damn Arm the Mob got buffed[/QUOTE] Free miniguns for everybody! Cheer!
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